[ZGrab]

This is my first post here and I'm very new to paintball in general, so I ask that you bear with me.

I'm looking to get into paintball much more seriously...I've gone a few times and rented and loved it, but recently I've noticed the option of magfed/milsim guns and wanted to get into that.

With that said, I'm looking to buy a gun. I have some very specific conditions that I want filled, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding something like that in my price range (sub-$400 all in).

Here are my conditions:
1. Under $400 for the gun + any mods to satisfy requirements 2 and 3
2. Magfed
3. Must be able to use buttstock with co2 built in, no remote (this can be done through flexi-air mods or anything else I'm not aware of) - please note that whenever I say co2 I'm implying HPA as well

Criteria 2 and 3 are extremely important, criteria 1 is somewhat flexible. I basically want the gun to be as close to a real one as humanly possible.

I've found some options, but I'm having a tough time satisfying criteria 2 and 3. Here's what I have so far:

Tipmann 98 Custom - Can be modded to be magfed with Tacamo kit, but I can't for the life of me find flexi-air or any way to allow it to take buttstock co2 (there's a RAP4 kit, but they say specifically it won't work on the new 98 Custom).

Total price: About $240 for gun and Tacamo mod...but no flexi air

Spyder MRX - Is magfed already and is a great price point (despite the low-capacity mags), but I can't find anything that allows buttstock co2

Total price: About $200 for the gun, mag-fed...but no buttstock co2

Tippmann A5/BT Omega/BT-4 - Can be modified to both magfed and buttstock co2, but doing so puts it over my price range...plus the aesthetic mods and spare mags I would need puts it way over

Total Price: About $500 for gun + flexi air + buttstock co2 + mag fed mod

From what I see, my choice right now would be the Spyder if there was a way to convert it to flexi air...

Can anybody offer me some help/advice on this?

[Nahib_Stilgar]

Or buy a used magfed set up that hits all three criteria.

Try the bst here or the magfed bst on Facebook. Lots of great deals there.

[Punisher068]

Can I suggest for your 1st marker NOT to go magfed but find something you can covert later.Use the extra money you save to buy a good mask and other equipment that you can use for either
They're are a few added problems with magfeds,currently most magfeds aren't up to par with standard feed markers for reliability.Better to start out simple so you're not sidelined with problems.Youre also likely to be outgunned.
Keep in mind magfed is still newer to paintball,if the market is strong more manufacturers will likely add more products and reliability will be better.I'd be surprised if Tippmann and Empire don't have something magfed coming up by this time next year.

[2nwyka]

Originally Posted by Punisher068

Can I suggest for your 1st marker NOT to go magfed but find something you can covert later.Use the extra money you save to buy a good mask and other equipment that you can use for either
They're are a few added problems with magfeds,currently most magfeds aren't up to par with standard feed markers for reliability.Better to start out simple so you're not sidelined with problems.Youre also likely to be outgunned.
Keep in mind magfed is still newer to paintball,if the market is strong more manufacturers will likely add more products and reliability will be better.I'd be surprised if Tippmann and Empire don't have something magfed coming up by this time next year.

I would tend to agree with this observation.
Magazine fed paintball markers are notoriously finicky and require quite a bit of fiddling in between games to keep them working properly. It also has the added expense of buying magazines, which are neither cheap nor compact. Magfed paintball play is MUCH different from regular play because your paint is so limited. Where others will be carrying markers with 200-round loaders and high rates of fire, you will have something with maybe 15-20 rounds (not very much in the paintball world) and not very maneuverable. I play pump to have the best of both worlds. I have the realism of not being able to shoot 12 shots a second for several minutes straight but also the ability to carry ammunition like everyone else. I have a couple magfed markers and it's fun, but it's difficult to play with others with markers that far outclass yours.

I would go with an X7 Phenom or a Tippmann A5 for your first marker. You can convert them into magazine fed if you want to and they'll be competitive and realistic on the paintball field. If you really get into magfed you can buy a Tiberius T4 or one of several Milsig guns that fit exactly what you want. RAP4 is hit-or-miss, but their 468 is a pretty solid platform.
Just be aware what you're getting yourself into. Best of luck!
Noah

[Invertkid44]

If your set on trying magfed look here at this for $300

Seems to meet all your criteria

https://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4028871

[ZGrab]

Thanks for the replies everybody, I've gotten some great feedback! I have some follow-up questions/comments if you're all still around.

Or buy a used magfed set up that hits all three criteria.

Try the bst here or the magfed bst on Facebook. Lots of great deals there.

I'm considering this as well, though I'm finding it hard to find something I like. I'm incredibly picky when it comes to aesthetics. I've learned through experience that if you settle for something you're not 100% happy with, it'll bother you forever.

Can I suggest for your 1st marker NOT to go magfed but find something you can covert later.Use the extra money you save to buy a good mask and other equipment that you can use for either. They're are a few added problems with magfeds,currently most magfeds aren't up to par with standard feed markers for reliability.Better to start out simple so you're not sidelined with problems.Youre also likely to be outgunned.
Keep in mind magfed is still newer to paintball,if the market is strong more manufacturers will likely add more products and reliability will be better.I'd be surprised if Tippmann and Empire don't have something magfed coming up by this time next year.

I was considering this, which is why I'm leaning so heavily towards the MRX. It has both magfed and hopper, so I could start off with hopper fed and switch to mag as I get more comfortable. The only thing that prevents me is the lack of air-through/flexi-air so I can hide the co2 tank in the buttstock. I love realism, so I want the end product to look as realistic as possible.

I also considered the A5 for this reason, and am still considering it. Perhaps with the Christmas season coming up there will be some sales all around and I can pick something up for a discount. The A5 and the BT-4 are both capable of everything I want them to do (and possible the Omega as well, though I couldn't find definitive proof) so that's a possibility.

What would you say are the biggest issues when it comes to gear? I've heard people say how masks are important because many of them fog up. Personally I would need a full head cover because I'm bald and it would hurt like hell to get hit on my bare head

Magazine fed paintball markers are notoriously finicky and require quite a bit of fiddling in between games to keep them working properly.

This is good to know, I haven't come across any comments about this. Could you elaborate a little bit? What kinds of issues come up?

I'm aware that magfed play would limit my carrying capacity, that's why I'd prefer something like the Spyder MRX that could do both mag and hopper according to the situation. As I mentioned above though, I'm very particular about how I want it to look/function.

[Savage Mikey]

Look into the entry level milsig. Not the para pro, the one that doesnt shoot first strikes. They all have tank in stock set ups. Might be a little above what your looking to spend but it will do way better then any tacamo set ups.

[Shocker_Monkey]

Check out Rap4.com. They have refurbished t68 w/DMAGs that were used at Operation End War 4. T68 with 10 mags for $300

Here

[Punisher068]

Your mask will be the single most important price of equiptment you'll buy.For full head protection the JT Flex 8 full head is your best bet.It has a thermal lends to prevent fogging.It has superior ear coverage,IT has been the gold standard for masks for years.I still have mine from 1995(not full head).If you have a pro shop near by try a few different masks on.Here's a good thread to get an idea
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/d...ns-beware.html
For a new/intermediate player an A5 is a great choice.Comes with the cyclone feed,can be modded and changed to anything you'd like it to look like,more reliable than most markers in your price range,Tippmann has great customer service and warranty.Can be converted to magfed later if you'd like
I haven't heard alot about Spyder magfeds good or bad,I have a Hammer 7 pump I love.Kingman(Spyder) was recently bought by Empire,speaking with my tech at my local pro shop he mentioned having problems getting parts while they transition.
Whatever you decide I'd recommend buying new for your 1st marker.You'll get a warranty.Buying used has worked good for me,best to start out with something that you know the history of.Once you get the hang of maintaining&teching a marker check out used stuff
A few thing about magfed that are problematic
Added parts=more maintenance,more things to go wrong,misfeeds&ball chops,rounds deforming in mags from compression on hot days,added expense of mags.
Good luck with your purchase whatever you choose.Don't meen to be so negative about magfed,would rather see you enjoy the sport and have a reliable marker than sit around messing with your gear while others play

[Robotech]

I agree a lot with Punisher.

Definately buy new if you're new to the sport. You don't want someone else's headaches and if something goes wrong you can fall back on the warranty. This doesn't mean you don't need to read the manual or ask questions though. Important rule of paintball: Know your gear.

As for magfed, The Spyder MRX (or better yet, MR5...it can shoot First Strikes) may be a good first marker to see how you like magfed. I know you want your air in your stock and, for straight magfed its a great choice, but for firing from a hopper you'll run out of air real quick with an in stock tank as they have to be fairly small.

I'm like you, and I like realism, but you have to mix practicallity in with it too. Unless you're playing straight magfed (ie never using a hopper) then you're going to need a bigger tank than what most air in stock setups will allow.

Most real good magfed options are going to be out of your budget at the moment (468, Tacamo, DAM, etc) Keep in mind that you need to research not just the gun, but the magazine options too. How much do they cost, how are they on paint, how do they feed, how easy are they to clean, can you store paint in them, etc. I usually carry 6 mags, 12 rounds each, and all loaded with First Strikes when I go out to play. If it's walk on, this can last me 2-4 games depending on how many people are playing, the kind of field we're on, and how many good shots present themselves to me. If I ran with regular paint, I would probably carry the 20 round mags instead as the added firepower to make up for the lack of accuracy would be necessary. Expect to carry at least 6 20 round mags for play in most situations. Thus knowing what your mag options are is critical to which guns will suit you best.

[2nwyka]

Originally Posted by ZGrab

This is good to know, I haven't come across any comments about this. Could you elaborate a little bit? What kinds of issues come up?

I'm aware that magfed play would limit my carrying capacity, that's why I'd prefer something like the Spyder MRX that could do both mag and hopper according to the situation. As I mentioned above though, I'm very particular about how I want it to look/function.

As a tech at my field, I see more magazine fed markers come through the line than anything else. Mostly it's from o-rings breaking, shredding, or otherwise failing (marker doesn't fire). The top of the magazine and the bottom of the chamber isn't smooth like a vertical feed marker, so the o-rings are rubbing a lot more on the magazine fed markers. They take some fiddling (velocity, springs, pressure, paint, barrels, etc...) to get them to cycle reliably. I rarely see Tacamo-converted Tippmanns in the shop, however, and that says a lot about it. I teched the same kid's MRX four times in one day for different problems and it left my door functioning each time. I'm just calling it like I see it, other people have very different experiences from mine. I also couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with an MRX. The barrel must not've liked anything I put through it, because for frack's sake it didn't shoot straight EVER! Clean bore, clean paint, 280fps. I fired a magazine at a tennis ball on a traffic cone from ~30 feet away and hit it once out of 10 shots. I took my AutoCocker with the same paint and hit it nine times. This is personal experience, weigh it as you will.
Noah

[ZGrab]

This is great, thanks everybody for your help! I did a little bit more digging and found the Tippmann Project Salvo/Sierra One also has everything I need, but I would save myself lots of money in aesthetic mods by doing it. It can also convert to magfed and air-through after some time, so it's perfect from that point of view. Does anyone have any thoughts on that particular marker? Positive/negative? I haven't seen anything bad about it online, it seems like Tippmann makes solid markers.

Your mask will be the single most important price of equiptment you'll buy.For full head protection the JT Flex 8 full head is your best bet.It has a thermal lends to prevent fogging.It has superior ear coverage,IT has been the gold standard for masks for years.I still have mine from 1995(not full head).If you have a pro shop near by try a few different masks on

That's great advice, I'm going to make sure I get a thermal lens and a good mask that can protect my entire head...don't want to come into work with welts on the back/side of my head!

I'm like you, and I like realism, but you have to mix practicallity in with it too. Unless you're playing straight magfed (ie never using a hopper) then you're going to need a bigger tank than what most air in stock setups will allow.

I'm leaning towards getting a tank that I can use in a stock later. From what I know, these tanks generally have about 100-shot capacity, which I think is good on 2 fronts. First, it forces me to think about ammo usage before I even get into mags. Second, I can match it up with a 50-round hopper and still be lightweight and have a quasi-magfed experience (assuming I'd have to reload the hopper at some point via tube or something like that).

I rarely see Tacamo-converted Tippmanns in the shop, however, and that says a lot about it. I teched the same kid's MRX four times in one day for different problems and it left my door functioning each time. I'm just calling it like I see it, other people have very different experiences from mine.

That's good to know very positive for what I'm planning on doing. Thanks for your advice and experience!

[NoX13]

Zgrab ,if you're able send me a pm.
I may be able to help you with just about everything you're looking for.

[ZGrab]

Originally Posted by NoX13

Zgrab ,if you're able send me a pm.
I may be able to help you with just about everything you're looking for.

I can't send you a PM yet, this is only my 4th post! I have to make 1 more post to be able to. In the meantime, if you can just shoot me an e-mail at zgrabovac@gmail.com

[Punisher068]

I think your choice of marker will fit you're list of needs,it uses the same valve as A5s and 98s.Make sure it's upgradable to magfed,e trigger,cyclone feed,etc in case you want to add parts later, know the 1st gen Alpha Black\Salvo couldn't be,I think this has been changed on the newer version you listed.
It should be a good reliable marker for you,I've seen hundreds of Tippmanns at our outlaw field,they're the AK of the paintball world.Our team founder has been using Tippmans since the 1st version of the 98 came out

[NoX13]

Sent you an email.

[Tock42]

One other thing to think about with the Milsig MkIII is you can put a hopper on it and don't have to use only the mags. I think a lot of people forget that. They are very good guns. My son and I have 2 MkIII's and 1 paradigm and I love them. Good luck with your choice.

[ZGrab]

Thanks everyone for your help! I found a really good Black Friday deal on a Project Salvo/Sierra One, so I picked it up online. Along with it I got the Ninja 13/3000 HPA tank and I'm looking at a 50 round hopper for now to match with it. I'm just looking into masks now and a vest. For the mask I would want full cover ideally with a thermal lens. I'm going to go into the pro shops locally to try some on and see how they fit, then pick up the one that's right for me. In terms of the vest I will do the same, I don't plan on carrying too much on myself but I would need something that could hold mags and such in the future.

[ZGrab]

For the future, does anybody know what models of buttstock I should be looking for that can hold air tanks? I remember seeing this stuff when I was doing initial research, but I can't find it again..

[sambob117]

If you're trying out magfed I highly suggest a Spyder MRX or MR5, or picking up a used 98/A5 Tacamo build. I have used an MR5 and my buddy a MRX all this past season, both putting about 2 cases through them with absolutely no problems. Do keep in mind that the average magazine costs $20-25 per for most brands, milsigs tend to be more while dmags are less

[sambob117]

Originally Posted by ZGrab

For the future, does anybody know what models of buttstock I should be looking for that can hold air tanks? I remember seeing this stuff when I was doing initial research, but I can't find it again..

I don't believe there is an air thru option for the stock Salvo, but if you get the mkv body kit you can get this air thru kit for the 98 platforms:
http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/...gh-upgrade-kit