[Umami]

Originally Posted by PBOldTimer

Care to explain why?

Any property owner has the right to tell you that you can't carry on their property. Universities (even state funded Universities) are not the government and are not Constitutionally obligated to allow you to carry on their property.

Violence on campuses isn't a big problem, and it would interfere with maintaining a learning environment for a lot of students.

No point.

[PBOldTimer]

Originally Posted by F1VENOM

So people don't even have to go through a basic competency course to carry a gun? Brilliant. Active shooter situation and everyone's got a gun strapped to their hip, that'll calm things down. That's one of the reasons cited against allowing guns on campus is there's no easy way to separate people out.

It's part of the uniform and not all police open carry.

People don't have to go through any basic competency course to enjoy any other rights... so why cherry pick the 2nd Amendment? And if your answer to this is based on what people might do if they are armed, then I'll argue that your fears aren't a basis for a valid argument to infringe on someone's rights.

And I'll disagree with your opinion that a gun is part of a police officer's uniform. It's a tool, not an article of clothing.

[F1VENOM]

Originally Posted by Umami

Any property owner has the right to tell you that you can't carry on their property. Universities (even state funded Universities) are not the government and are not Constitutionally obligated to allow you to carry on their property.

Originally Posted by PBOldTimer

People don't have to go through any basic competency course to enjoy any other rights... so why cherry pick the 2nd Amendment? And if your answer to this is based on what people might do if they are armed, then I'll argue that your fears aren't a basis for a valid argument to infringe on someone's rights.

And I'll disagree with your opinion that a gun is part of a police officer's uniform. It's a tool, not an article of clothing.

Where in the 2nd does it say anything about carrying said firearm? It says you have the right to own them and leaves the rest up to the states. Give that bull**** a rest.

As for infringing on someone's rights, read what Umami posted.

Who said anything about being an article of clothing? Weren't you a Marine? You should know all about uniform regulations.

[PBOldTimer]

Originally Posted by F1VENOM

Where in the 2nd does it say anything about carrying said firearm? It says you have the right to own them and leaves the rest up to the states. Give that bull**** a rest.

As for infringing on someone's rights, read what Umami posted.

Who said anything about being an article of clothing? Weren't you a Marine? You should know all about uniform regulations.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't say you have the right to own firearms... it says you have the right to keep and bear arms. "To bear," according to Webster's, means "to carry." If I come bearing gifts, it means that I currently have them in my possession, not just simply own them.

You are right, however, with regard to a University being private property. And the owner or manager of private property can insist on a no-weapons policy. That's about the best argument I've heard yet.

And, yes, I was a Marine. I can tell you with certainty that no Marine will ever refer to his/her weapon as part of their uniform. My rifle was a tool.

[F1VENOM]

Originally Posted by PBOldTimer

The 2nd Amendment doesn't say you have the right to own firearms... it says you have the right to keep and bear arms. "To bear," according to Webster's, means "to carry." If I come bearing gifts, it means that I currently have them in my possession, not just simply own them.

You are right, however, with regard to a University being private property. And the owner or manager of private property can insist on a no-weapons policy. That's about the best argument I've heard yet.

And, yes, I was a Marine. I can tell you with certainty that no Marine will ever refer to his/her weapon as part of their uniform. My rifle was a tool.

Now you're just digressing this into a gun rights discussion which it's not. We're debating open vs concealed carry and so far you've not presented a case for, you've just shoot down my points. I don't know why you'd be for open carrying of arms as there's no benefit that I can see. No, I don't consider less licensing a benefit.

You're being too literal and again, not all officers open carry.

[PBOldTimer]

This is where you and I will have to differ. I see no benefit for concealed carry. If you're armed... have it in the open. It will show would-be aggressors that you can and will fight back.

Personally, I don't have a conceal carry permit. But I open carry almost everywhere I go.

As for not all cops open carrying... again you correct, but I would say that the overwhelming vast majority of uniformed officers do open carry. Now ask yourself, why do those cops open carry if it has no benefit?

[F1VENOM]

Originally Posted by PBOldTimer

This is where you and I will have to differ. I see no benefit for concealed carry. If you're armed... have it in the open. It will show would-be aggressors that you can and will fight back.

Personally, I don't have a conceal carry permit. But I open carry almost everywhere I go.

As for not all cops open carrying... again you correct, but I would say that the overwhelming vast majority of uniformed officers do open carry. Now ask yourself, why do those cops open carry if it has no benefit?

You sound like a guy who goes around thumping his chest and talking ****. There's no reason to advertise at all as it's there in case of an emergency, not to make a statement. I'd rather no one know as it gives you the advantage and allows you to blend in. Open carry draws attention and that's exactly what I don't want. There are enough distractions and chest thumping that goes on in college, the last thing I'd want are more exposed distractions. You're also forgetting that colleges house and service people from outside of this country who may not be nearly as comfortable with weapons as you and I.

It's part of the uniform, as I said. It's actually a bit of a detriment as police have to go through all that weapon retention training and use specialty holsters to prevent their guns being used against them.

[mnp8nt]

Originally Posted by F1VENOM

We're debating open vs concealed carry and so far you've not presented a case for, you've just shoot down my points.

Because the thread topic is concealed carry not open carry. Stay on-topic, least he wouldn't have to address your points.

Originally Posted by Umami

Any property owner has the right to tell you that you can't carry on their property. Universities (even state funded Universities) are not the government and are not Constitutionally obligated to allow you to carry on their property.

I strongly disagree that higher education is not a part of the government. Rhetorically state funded Universities derive their power from the State Constitution. Several Land grant institutions operate with independent police powers, taxation, capital improvements, health and emergency services (take for example the University of Michigan or University of Minnesota as examples).

Originally Posted by Umami

Violence on campuses isn't a big problem, and it would interfere with maintaining a learning environment for a lot of students.

Where you draw the line between open and concealed carry is a matter of rhetoric. For example, I also strongly disagree that violence is not a big problem on university campuses. As a recent example, there have been a (high) number of crimes committed on the University of Minnesota campus to the point where the Governor has allotted additional funding for more armed police officers and 'improvements' to the lighting, emergencies phones etc. In urban environments violence does not stop at the campus boundaries. At times it even walks right into the front door and robs students at knife/gunpoint.

[PBOldTimer]

Originally Posted by F1VENOM

You sound like a guy who goes around thumping his chest and talking ****. There's no reason to advertise at all as it's there in case of an emergency, not to make a statement. I'd rather no one know as it gives you the advantage and allows you to blend in. Open carry draws attention and that's exactly what I don't want. There are enough distractions and chest thumping that goes on in college, the last thing I'd want are more exposed distractions. You're also forgetting that colleges house and service people from outside of this country who may not be nearly as comfortable with weapons as you and I.

The bolded parts of your statement are weak as hell.

Fire extinguishers are there in case of an emergency as well, are you suggesting that they be concealed? Of course not.

I couldn't care less about foreigners housed at a college. If your right to free speech offends them, shall the university do away with the 1st Amendment? Of course not.

You still haven't answered my question. If open carry is so aweful, then why do the vast majority of police officers open carry? Hint: it is NOT part of their uniform. It is a tool.

[eforce]

Purdue student here. After seeing how little police did to protect the students, and the pictures floating around social media, some of which from people I know, I'm in absolute agreement with concealed carry (NOT open carry) on campus if proper training is a prerequisite for it.

Had this shooting occurred a few weeks earlier in the previous semester when I had class in that building, I probably would have found myself standing within 15 feet of the shooter. If you've never been to the EE building, all you need to know is there are large laboratories with 30+ students in each room and only one way out and nowhere to hide. If this were an active shooter situation, there would have easily been 100 dead in a matter of minutes, and not one person would be permitted by law to protect themselves. This is absolutely unacceptable.

[Burninator]

I already said this but I guess it needs to be said again. The police are under no obligation to protect you. Police also don't carry a weapon to protect you, they carry a weapon to protect themselves. Prime example is a hostage situation. Point a gun at the hostages and the cops are concerned, point a gun at the cops and you are full of holes.

As far as concealed versus open. Concealed gives the opportunity to surprise, open carry makes gun shy people squeamish. The only person who benefits from open carry is a would be attacker, now they know exactly what part of you to suppress to stop you from defending yourself.

Lastly, public universities are funded by the state and the state makes rules and regulations for the state property. So if the state passes allow that carry on campus is allowed and the university board has no say, then it's legal. When they were trying to pass it in Texas they were giving the board that governs each university the option of refusing.

[Luke ????]

Concealed carry on campus shouldn't be up for debate since it is a constitutional right. (Being able to and knowing how to protect yourself and others I think are necessary skills/knowledge.)

I would also open the option for concealed carry to faculty and staff.
In regards to students, I would require notification to admin through phone call/email if a student chooses to carry open or concealed.

[KnightsPaintball]

With Boise State passing their new guns on campus law I love it, means I can protect myself even on campus when I'm there.

[PBFeZ]

Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that in Illinois, it's 21 to concealed carry (and a class, background check, etc.), but regardless, it is illegal to carry on any college campus.

Here's my problem: I go to Illinois Tech, a school on the south side of Chicago. Our "campus" is a few city blocks, with no barriers to access, so the general public can (and does) walk around our campus (and occasionally use our facilities, even though they're not supposed to). There have been multiple incidents where students are robbed at knife point, one instance at gun point and a shooting across the street from campus (all happened 2013-2014 school year).

I live a few blocks off campus, and walk to and from class, sometimes late at night. Why am I not allowed to carry to campus (and thus, home from campus) even if I had a concealed carry permit (I don't at the moment, but say I did)?

[Barbara_Walters]

#1 of a gun fight: Bring a gun.

[BenderBR]

I support all forms of carrying because I'm not a limp dick *****. I can argue more eloquently but god I don't care what other people think about it.

[Helpup81]

Originally Posted by BenderBR

I support all forms of carrying because I'm not a limp dick *****. I can argue more eloquently but god I don't care what other people think about it.

I have been known to be a "limp dick *****" and I also support all forms of carry.

[gatorsnrams28]

Just curious, has anyone's opinions changed since the shooting at that Oregon community college?

[ProtoBaller1991]

jesus christ I was a ****ing retard when I posted in this thread. Why didn't you guys kick my ***?

[noonagon]

Its a right, not a "if he gets classes on how to use it" clause. I support campus carry by concealed carriers, open carry might be a bit much for the snowflakes.

Its not so much the campus incident id be worried about as a carrier, its the stop at the gas station or 7/11 on the way home.

[unkle_tony]

pro, although open carry is a bit much