My closed bolt Ion (really)

FMprime · 07-25-2010, 01:17 AM

The MQ-esque piston would leak air for as long as the gun is firing and reloading. Not super long if you've got a fast hopper, but when you run out of paint it would stay in the open and leaking position.

The powertube-less version is starting to look like the assault-80.
http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/a80-7.gif

y0da900 · 07-25-2010, 09:38 AM

It's pretty similar to the Assault 80, but the plunger in this doesn't actually push the bolt forward, the chamber pressure does that. That allows for a smaller diameter plunger with a much shorter throw therefore lower air consumption to cycle. My "Closed Bolt Dumper" animation is a little closer to an A80, but with a way better valve end. Also along the same lines as Thorpydo's Plunger system.

P0E (Banned) · 07-26-2010, 01:06 PM

I didn't realize G3 had that lobe in there, but I guess it makes sense. The price is crazy though. It's surprisingly expensive for what it is.

Here's close to what I was thinking about.
http://FastFreeFileHosting.com/file/...lt-MQ-pdf.html

I reasoned it would cycle faster because there's less gas to vent, with less restriction and greater forces. The larger valve head reduces required piston travel as well.

FMprime:
Notice how the piston is up against the vent while firing/loading? This greatly restricts how much air is vented.

Additionally, you could supply air to the back of the piston through a cheap LPR instead of the orange transfer hole. That should really reduce the wasted gas.

y0da900 · 07-26-2010, 05:14 PM

I think that set up like that the valve may fart quite a bit, you are removing the bias from the front side of the shuttling piston when firing creating a bias to push it forward, even with the noid venting.

P0E (Banned) · 07-27-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y0da900

I think that set up like that the valve may fart quite a bit, you are removing the bias from the front side of the shuttling piston when firing creating a bias to push it forward, even with the noid venting.

You might be right. The rearward bias of the back two piston seals might keep it held back, but if the transfer tube is too large the piston would move forward once pressure behind it significantly exceeded breech pressure.

I don't think it would fart though since the bolt would be traveling rearward before the piston started moving forwards.

It would look as if the piston flew back, hit the stop, moved forward, latched onto the bolt, then finally returned with it.

End result would just be a dump chamber that wasn't fully emptied. That might be a good thing though since it reduces pre-expansion inside the dump chamber, increasing efficiency.

If you really wanted to completely dump the chamber, the transfer tube could be moved to the back of the piston and the piston stops could be moved up.

http://FastFreeFileHosting.com/file/...-tube-pdf.html (EDIT: Note the LPA and HPA tags on this image are incorrect. Both ports would be fed by the same source.)

Using LPA via a cheap regulator would waste even less gas through the vent, but possibly not enough to notice? It would have the added benefit of holding the bolt open longer ensuring the entire dump chamber was emptied.

http://FastFreeFileHosting.com/file/...h-LPA-pdf.html

The MQ's solenoid is smaller than originally thought so the back of the piston was shrunk. Additionally I also forgot the bolt backstops so those were added as well. The entire thing might be small enough to cram into an Ion?

empire1122 (Banned) · 08-01-2010, 06:11 PM

very interesting. Nice job

y0da900 · 08-14-2010, 12:12 PM

If anybody is in the upstate NY area (real upstate, not just above NYC) or close to it, I'll have at least one of these going at the Colonial Wars scenario at Tigerstipe Paintball in Keeseville NY on August 28th. Anybody that wants to try one out there is more than welcome to.

The Great CJV · 08-18-2010, 12:55 AM

Thats cool

asfaraslogic · 09-16-2010, 09:35 PM

Sweet stuff... I am definately following the thread.

P0E (Banned) · 09-20-2010, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asfaraslogic

Sweet stuff... I am definately following the thread.

Since it was bumped, any status update?

y0da900 · 09-20-2010, 08:25 AM

Nothing yet. I've got a newer revision again that I just haven't had the time to cut yet. It has a larger bore through the power tube, and a larger area on the piston that stops its forward movement. This should hopefully accomplish 2 things - there will be less wear at the tip of the piston and it should open faster because there is a larger differential surface area of the forward and rearward biasing seals.

iLovPieNCake · 09-23-2010, 03:50 PM

Since this is a closed bolt design, does it keep balls in the barrel like a cocker ?(This may sound stupid)

How smooth does it shoot ? I have shot an Ion, a Vibe, a PM6, an etek 3, a DP Fusion FX and lots of cockers. Any comparison ? I'm gonna buy an Ion just for this.

Leafy · 09-23-2010, 03:54 PM

it does keep the ball in the barrel like a cocker, and the kick is not noticeable. you dont feel the thing shoot if theres no paint. It sounds just like a normal ion which is something I find were considering how different the air paths are.

I'll get more testing done as soon as I can find a board that works all the time and have time.

y0da900 · 09-23-2010, 05:09 PM

I've actually thought it sounds substantially snappier than an Ion does when dry firing, but the noise difference is less noticeable when firing with paint.

Leafy · 09-24-2010, 11:25 PM

yeah exactly.

ERA_Evil · 12-07-2010, 12:45 AM

nice mod

didnt expect a closed bolt ion lol

y0da900 · 12-31-2010, 03:04 PM

No photos yet, but I did some minor design changes to this variation this morning and cut a set for testing. It was definitely poor machining on the first version of it that I made, it seems to work very well. I get ~290 FPS running 95 psi. I'll be sending this variation as well as the latest version of the other one to a tester soon. It will be interesting to see which one gets better efficiency...

Leafy · 12-31-2010, 04:26 PM

Any word from daemon on the boards? I need to find a dealer from the white hats guys or whoever it is that its now selling smart parts stuff. Virtue boards are going for like 180 on ebay its crazy.

y0da900 · 12-31-2010, 04:38 PM

I haven't sent him a kit for testing yet so we don't have to keep going back and forth, I'll be sending him one from the current batch.

It's GOG that is SP under a new name, you can get replacement stuff from them directly apparently.

Leafy · 12-31-2010, 10:09 PM

Just emailed them.

pbjosh · 01-04-2011, 01:45 PM

y0da: Did I ever send you my Ion SPI bolt info? If you want I will dig it up. The effecientcy ratio didn't even make sense, and the airpath was similar to your design there. A little less volume, I was going to have de-volumeize the gun to kill the shootdown actually. It was still an open bolt.

I heard Damon had an exclusive contract and was busy till about, hmm... now? I need to drop him a line.