So what actually happened at the 2012 Tag and Brag, Africa Cup?

Lightsout777 · 12-02-2012, 09:46 AM

Right, so what actually happened at the Africa Cup?
I have to rant about this years poor event, with the only highlight being LA Infamous.

I find it difficult to believe that a decision can be justified that at the country's biggest paintball event of the year that inexperienced non-paintball playing people can be roped into being marshals. With only two workshops prior, the event organizers thought that they would be adequate to have the honor of being able to make the correct decisions on the fly during a game.

I feel it was a slap in the face, after putting in all the effort, time and money over the past year, playing at every BnT league game and qualifying for the Elite division, that my team and that of all playing, was to be treated as second rate amateurs with no thought of the fact that many of us have been playing for more than 10 years. We were not born yesterday nor did we just purchase our equipment, slap a team together and enter the event.

I can understand if one or two players felt this way, you could right it off as them having an off day, however most of the teams and players I spoke to during the days play complained about the complete inconsistency and shocking calls made by these very green, inexperienced marshals.

I agree that my conduct on our second to last game was not fitting for a player at my level and I should have been the better person, but as what happened in 2002 with Pieter van Zyl, I only did what many people were thinking. Sure it does not justify my actions and for that I do apologize.

As I stated, many players who I spoke to complained about the poor marshaling and if you are out there and feel the same way, I would like to know your thoughts on the weekend. As well if you are a marshal and feel otherwise, please let me know why and how your decisions were correct and justified. I open this to all who participated at the event for your honest opinions.

Shortbuscrew · 12-02-2012, 11:16 AM

videos?

Lightsout777 · 12-03-2012, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shortbuscrew

videos?

I don't believe so, not right now. But if any I'll keep you posted.

Lightsout777 · 12-03-2012, 02:35 AM

So I've chatted to the organiser of the Event and this is what he had to say about his decisions on FB on a pvt message, get ready to be shocked.

Craig Galbraith
its funny to see that your organisational skills have be brought to the suface and you want to delete the post as you cannot defend your actions!...

10:20am
Ridwaan Ismail
piss off dude...I don't need to discuss anything with you...

10:24am
Craig Galbraith
Ridwaan Your organisational skills have been put to question and you don't like it! Delete it and Ban me, like I care...
The rest of the world will know how shoddy an event it was unless you can back it up with a decent apology for knowingly not making additional plans. You say you want to grow the sport... more like grow your back pocket... I know most of the pricing you guys pay from the suppliers overseas. Cause I buy all my gear for them at cost too... 150% mark-up is shocking....

10:25am
Ridwaan Ismail

End of pvt mess
More to come I'm sure. Watch this space...

Lightsout777 · 12-03-2012, 02:51 AM

From one of the other teams that played at the event

Stephan Skippy Scheepers

As one of the players that participated in the 3 man event we also witnessed some of the ****ups these marshals made, where where robbed of our pride at this event. Our schedule changed on Saturday where we basically forfeit 3 games even though we where there and where not called or informed of the change. When we approached some of the Admin staff they simply said " don't make your problems mine" the senior members of bnt tied to help by awarding 1 point O_o. Secondly all our markers where banned, and i would say that the grounds where unfair, they banged the **** out of them and im not joking, no marker would pass that abuse on that rebounce test. We have big sponsors and even bigger ones that where balancing on this event. Its embarrassing to present them with 3 points. Just want to give you more ammo.

Gareth Cook

i see that they took your post off blades and triggers we also had problems with them..some howwe missed 3 games but were neva called up for them and when we went to ask they said "o dont make ur problems mine" i agree with wat u are saying we are a new team to the sport and this torunament ruined it for us

RedrumSA · 12-05-2012, 03:45 AM

@Lightsouut777

I am all for people posting the information about events and their experiences and there will always be people to complain.

What I do need to point out is that on many items you have your facts wrong.

The tournament organiser is NOT Ridwaan Ismail. He is a sponsor and we hosted the event at his field. As such the above response is not an official organiser and league response but a response form someone you had a personal discussion with.

Also, the schedule did not change on Saturday. We used the APPA system and nothing changed the whole weekend. As teams who compete in big tournaments know, the schedule times are indicative as each game will have a different game time and it is the team's responsibility to keep up to date with the progress of the games.

Bad marshal calls are in the eye of the beholder and there are always two sides of the story. So you might not have been happy with the call but it does not mean that they are always wrong. This is paintball and happens at every event.

The feedback for the event has been incredibly positive from nearly all teams and especially the tradeshow vendors, sponsors and international guests such as LA Infamous, Kevin from KEE Action sports and various other international guests.

See all you teams serious about competing at the biggest SA events next year at Africa Cup 2013 and all the APL events

Ray-69 · 12-05-2012, 10:24 AM

total agree with redrumsa here , ridwaan was a sponsor to the event and sponsor most of the prize out of his own pocket coz he want to help grow the sport in sa as all of us does , but clearly lightsouut777 is not one of those ppl who want to do this for us . and the event was great and enjoy playing in such event as do all the international teams . as quote from his messages , lighsouut777 was ban due to his actions towards the ref , any paintball player in the world would be ban for swearing and pushing a ref ..., and bad calls do happen to everyone even in psp and is wca , so grow some balls and skills to be a better player then just bad mouthing such a good event

Ray-69 · 12-05-2012, 10:26 AM

on top of what i mention, the ref that ban u was ur own team mate , so that says alot what type of person u r

Shortbuscrew · 12-05-2012, 10:37 AM

even as a ref at a local rec field, you make a call, even with the slight chance of it being a bad one, you have to stick to what you called. you give any player who argues with you about it and reverse the call, you will have every single player argueing with you and eventually, will not listen to any ref if they second guess themselves knowing they will get away with what they did. and players who cry wolf, i eventually just ignore anything they have to say about other players.

ScrewUfruitcake · 12-05-2012, 11:15 AM

Are you serious? Aren't you the guy (craig) who assulted the ref and got banned from the tournament? As the ray-69 pointed out, that guy was also a team mate of yours. Why should we believe anything you say about bad ref calls.

You guys (all gold) ended second last (11th) in the 3-man elite division?
1. DNX Blades (JHB)
2. Dalibor (PTA)
3. De10shion (PTA)
4. Espire Carbon (PTA)
5. Bridge 82 (JHB)
6. Nova Titans (PTA)
7. Triple Threat (JHB)
8. Epic (KZN)
9. Fury (KZN)
10. Mayhem (PTA)
11. All Gold (JHB)
12. Durban Assassins (KZN)

This just indicates that you guys were in a division you didn't belong in because no matter how bad the marshal calls are it will not make you end second last out of 12 teams.

So rather spend the time you are talking crap on forums to practice snap shooting, running and gunning and all the other basic skills to be a semi-decent paintball player.

If you assulted a marshal in any other of the major leagues you would have been banned for a significant amount of time (years). I am not sure what length of ban was handed down to you but I know that I wouldn't want to play on the same field as you. If you do this to your friends, not sure I would want to be on your team either.

I am not quite sure what you are trying to achieve but with the cr@p you pulled at the tournament I wouldn't really be drawing attention to myself on the various forums.

Maybe it's time for another hobby.

Rexel · 12-05-2012, 11:31 AM

Ok lets start with the facts. Why are you so upset oh yes you were D.Q from the event for assaulting and swearing a ref, by your own team member.

You lost most of your games

1. DNX Blades (JHB)
2. Dalibor (PTA)
3. De10shion (PTA)
4. Espire Carbon (PTA)
5. Bridge 82 (JHB)
6. Nova Titans (PTA)
7. Triple Threat (JHB)
8. Epic (KZN)
9. Fury (KZN)
10. Mayhem (PTA)
11. All Gold (JHB)
12. Durban Assassins (KZN)

You had no chance to win this at all.

and if you what to post pv messages ok lets do that.

Conversation started Monday

10:36am
Connie Minnaar
Hi you whant to make this personal be happy to. See you later.

10:42am
Craig Galbraith
Who's making it personal...? You are clearly and clearly you want to take it further, but hey I haven't stomped on a skull in a while so anytime anywhere.

10:43am
Connie Minnaar
Hahahaha.

10:49am
Craig Galbraith
You're laughing... I'm the one that should be. I don't take ilde threats likely, you don't know who I am or where I've been Connie.

10:53am
Connie Minnaar
Ok stop it now I can't stop laughing.

10:57am
Craig Galbraith
you said you'll see me later, make you move boy anytime anywhere.

Ok so you have a short temper bad attitude and wants to beat up every one. I just wanted to talk, but you see that as a threat.

you are violent and an embarrassment to South Africa and the paintball community of South Africa.

ScrewUfruitcake · 12-06-2012, 01:14 AM

Maybe some therapy might be in order Craig before you start being distructive on forums where you do nothing but break down the hard work of people who truly love this great sport and actually make things happen.

You are truly a disgrace my friend

Lightsout777 · 12-06-2012, 06:45 AM

WOW! Gees people some of you need to go back to school and LEARN to READ.
My issue was not the calls...

My issue was that at the biggest paintball event of the year, inexperienced non-paintball playing people can be roped into
being marshals, with only two workshops prior to the event, and then passed off as competent. Doesn't anyone but myself see a
problem with that?

And I'm only talking about the newbie/noob/never-played-paintball-before marshalls that were there on the 3man fields.
NOT ALL the Marshals.

Talk about being lost in translation...
Let me try to explain it in terms that a South African can understand. It's just like going to watch your favorite Rugby team
play and a girl in a Pink supporters top gets asked to ref the game?

What kind of an example does that set to the international arena? That S/Africa can't manage a dripping tap and I'll stick by
that till proven otherwise.

@RedrumSA - Ridwan's organisation supplied the Marshals, So he is EVERY BIT responsible for them, but cannot get off his high
horse to admit that their (BnT) plans were shoddy at the very least, leaving it till the last minute.
All I did was post pm's to myself from other teams that too were present and also felt that it was not up to the standard
from previous years. Just stating the facts of the matter, not personal opinion.

Bad calls should not be accepted in ANY sport, it leaves refs to "blow" the game they WANT TO and NOT how it is ment to
according to the rules. There is after all ONLY ONE RULE BOOK and as far as I am aware it's not up to "Interpretation".

Of course the feed back would be good from that side of the event. Those that commented only saw the one part of it... they had
the best area set out for them, the best marshals on the field for them, the organisors and "sponsors" (and I use that term
loosley) kissing up and generally doing their level best to make sure that only those guests were seen to. What about the rest
of the Guests? The 30 odd 3-man teams who were left to deal with the inexperienced marshals on their fields. And Yes, the Open
Div teams complained too. I'm just the only person who's brave enough to stand up and make it heard.

@Ray-69 - Let's not talk about what kind of a person you are Ray Lo. I have not attacked any person verbally on this forum or
on any other for that matter, only the event and the organisation there-of. If people want to take it personal, then that's
their own insecurities about themselves coming out, beside the old saying goes, "The Truth Hurts".

Team MATE, no. Player that plays on the same team, yes. Besides he had to do it... He was "Joint????" Head Marshal on the field, and
the only one with a knife to cut off the armband. And from what I heard... Johan revoked his "Head-ref" status as there had been
a number of complaints about his marshalling from a number of teams and players alike. So let's not "paint" him to be some GREAT
marshall.

@ScrewU - Semi-decent??? Hmmm, the fact that we were placed joint 5th in JHB in our Div before the event, prolly says we are all
"semi-decent." Get some facts before posting, your fingers are working faster that your brain... You probably have the same to say
then about DBN Assassins, Mayhem, Fury, Epic, Triple Threat etc. Where do you draw the line, or don't you. Nice to know that you
think so little of ALL other teams other than your own. And you say I'm "the team player"

But if you were on the other team and cheated, then you are right, you wouldn't want to be on the field.

@Rexel - Connie - Let us look at YOUR first post BRO
Connie Minnaar
Hi you whant to make this personal be happy to. See you later.

The fact that you want to "see me later" implies a threat of sorts... Why do you want to "see me later", what do you want to do,
hold my hand, braid my hair, give me some PB pointers? I didn't think so... so if anyone needs some therepy look no further than
the mirror. If any one has a short temper, a bad attitude and wants to beat everyone it seems like you do. Or did I read into
your threat the wrong way?

And Again For All Those Who Did Miss It!
I agree that my conduct on our second to last game was not fitting for a player at my level and I should have been the better person,
it does not justify my actions and for that I do apologize. If I had that Ref's name I would post it up here and mention it personally.

“He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave.”
~ Andrew Carnegie

RSASeraph · 12-07-2012, 02:29 AM

Craig ... you should chill.

I played africa cup , and even though im not a great fan of the organizers or the venue , i have to say that it was pretty damn great.
Awesome trade show
Maximus
Infamous
the list goes on.

Reffing will always get complaints ... but the winning teams always complain the least. Funny that.

I struggle to find the point behind all your rants.
Are you trying to inform the public of all these vast injustices that were hoofed upon you?
Are you trying to prevent people from coming to ZA to play the events?

Yes you feel robbed... yes you feel some things were bad.
Posting it webwide will bring you no satisfaction.

so in closing ... walk it off tough guy ... shyt happens.

poweredbyink · 12-07-2012, 08:57 AM

I agree Seraph.
All we want is for paintball to grow in SA.
The event was great and really well organized.
I reserve my opinion on parts of the tournament, as I believe that an International forum is not the place to vent.

Venting will only detract from International interest in our Country and that would be a bit like cutting ones nose off to spite ones face.

No amount of complaining will change things.What is done is done.If you not happy with the way a tournament was run and the organizers wont listen to constructive criticism, then dont support it.

Lightsout777 · 12-10-2012, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poweredbyink

No amount of complaining will change things.What is done is done.If you not happy with the way a tournament was run and the organizers wont listen to constructive criticism, then dont support it.

The team is already in discussion not to take part in next years events at that field.
Beside I've heard a rumor that BnT will not be having their BnTPL league anymore.

SA-PAINTBALL · 12-13-2012, 08:56 AM

Hi Lightsout777

This is what really happened at Africa Cup!!!

1.Regarding the marshaling, all the marshals that were on the field at Africa Cup are paintball players. new or old ( paintball player is a paintball player no matter what you say!! ).

2. all the marshals had training since 3 weeks prior to the event. Every field had 1 HEAD REF and a wise HEAD REF. You were DISQUALIFIED by the HEADREF !!! ( lemme mention why: because you pushed the ref and used abusive language to a fellow marshal- no paintball event in the world allows it!!!) And what example did you set for the younger paintballers that were watching you go on worse then a kid???

3.You going on in forums and wherever about what happened isn't gonna change where your team placed. so my suggestion to you, calm down and be a sportsman and try harder in the next season. SIMPLE!!

4.RUMORS WILL ALWAYS BE RUMORS. Don't believe them cause the people that are starting rumors are the fools. Don;t be one of them!!

5.SA has only seen a small sample of how big an event can be and the host and everyone involved in organizing the event did an extremely great job!!! heads up to the organizers and everyone involved

6. Infamous says: '' we have never seen better marshaling anywhere!!". Thanks for joining us in SA. You guys rocked!!

7. Bad calls or good calls ( there is no event in the world that never have bad calls!! ) . So be a good supporter and help grow SA Paintball instead of going on for something that's happened already and cannot be changed!

To everyone, Thanks for the support!! we need it. keep it up!!