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09-26-2014, 02:51 PM
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#43
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AK Pump
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech
You know, I think this brings up a very interesting point. There are many Olympic sports that are based on military skills such as Archery. Javelin, and the Pentathlon. Granted some aspects of these are outdated (when was the last time an army threw a spear at someone?) but they all have their start in military endeavors.
Perhaps the reason there is so much debate about what paintball "is" can be attributed to the presumption that paintball can be defined in and of itself. I think that may be a bit presumptuous. What if we look at paintball as being part of something larger...Military sports?
After all, that is what it is and where it came from. Under this concept, any and all activities that can trace their existence to some form of combat would fall under its heading.
On one end of the spectrum, you would have your sanctioned sports such as the ones mentioned before, wrestling, boxing, and football. These are sports that may have their roots in combat but have since evolved into pure sporting events that have little to no direct correlation to modern day combat.
On the opposite end are activities that, for all extents and purposes, may look identical to actual combat but are, in no way, lethal. Historical Re-enactors come to mind. These folks spend thousands to make their kit as authentic as possible to the unit they have joined then go out and shoot blanks at one another to recreate historical battles. They follow a script and one side already knows it's going to "lose" going into the event.
On this new scale, we find many different forms of paintball that fall all along it's length. Tournament Ball sits squarely on the sporting end of this spectrum. It's about the sport and other than the fact that the players are using a form of gun trying to eliminate the other side and that tactics are useful for winning, there is very little to tie it to modern combat.
Big Game falls more between the two as tactics may change a bit considering the larger field sizes and larger opposing sides. This bears less resemblance to a "Sport" type game considering the larger, less organized, fields and the general lack of an organized attack plan used by the opposing sides.
Scenario game leans more to the side of combat recreation with having "Generals", "XOs", and missions as part of the game along with tanks, rocket launchers, grenades, mines, and the rest. Obviously since there is no pre-determined outcome and the sides are not going for a military authentic uniform it still is towards the middle of the scale.
MilSim is as close as we get to the combat recreation side of the scale while still wielding paintball guns. Players of MilSim wish to look the part and often times may form units that use military like signals and tactics but still stay in the realm of paintball.
In the end, it still comes down to playing what you want to play. When we go walk on, the game is very different than if we were going to play a tournament or OK D-Day. Just as having a bunch of tactical gear for walkon play is really not necessary, nor is having a full on tournament set-up. For whatever reason though, the trend seems to be to shun the full MilSim player at a walk on game and say nothing of those who are equipped (and sometimes playing) as though they were at Nationals during a walk on game.
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everthing about this post! Paintball is a very vast and varied sport, i honestly think a little open mindedness is required when you embrace paintball, theres so many ways to play the game and everyone (Save for a few that are "in it to win it" and won't slow down for anybody even if that means bunkering a walk on rental...) is here fore fun and beacuse they love the sport. Embrace all aspects of the sport not just the very small gap you play. I think a lot more people should try out different types of games and gameplay.
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09-26-2014, 09:08 PM
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#44
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RED LETTERS
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubarius
Do consider that trying to jab each other with swords is an Olympic event, so a little fake knife play in a game where we already shoot guns at each other isn't a particularly big deal. Plus you can go to just about any store that carries toys and get a brand new Nerf machete, and I don't see any Mom's protesting that.
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Fencing is a very technical art, much like Kendo, and is nothing at all like fake knifing people in Paintball, not even close to the look-a-like military people trying to "look" operator as **** while swinging a toy knife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MstrKey
Interesting comparison. You'll notice the people fencing in the olympics aren't wearing armor or flying military standards on their uniforms or even using replica foils(which would have been rapiers). They've dulled it down to make it a sport/game and not a simulated military battle to the death, which is my whole point.
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Fencing has 3 types of swords I believe, not just foils, not much of a point in telling you this just found it interesting when I was into Fencing and thought it might intrigue you as well, it's a very interesting sport.
I also wouldn't say it is dulled down, Fencing has a lot going on in a match, as does Kendo.
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The dude in OP's post is a **** head no doubt, and I didn't intend to derail this into a argument over knives as there is already a thread for that.
You should be fine wearing what ever it is you want to wear, especially when just going to a field, and woodsball. I mean if it isn't a tournament then what is there to lose wearing your favorite clone suit, nothing really.
Why people care so much about what other people wear is beyond me, this even goes to the people that are bothered by team jerseys. When I lived in the states I would see slobby, diabetic, couch dwellers that would wear their favorite teams jerseys in public outside of their usual Sunday television-coaching-mentally part of the team-scream fest, and 99% of those people never actually play the sport. Meanwhile the kids with Red Legion jerseys, or whatever team it is, are actually playing the sport and have a pro team that they either enjoy watching, want to win, or inspires them to be better.
The knifing bit on the other hand actually affects other players when some wannabe rambo comes in swinging a machete full force.
Anyhow, hope you continue to wear what it is you want to wear man, bonus points if he gets mad about it every weekend.
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09-27-2014, 12:19 AM
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#45
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Wow, it is blue.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New Richmond, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorWTF
Fencing is a very technical art, much like Kendo, and is nothing at all like fake knifing people in Paintball, not even close to the look-a-like military people trying to "look" operator as **** while swinging a toy knife.
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Ah, but there's different types of fencing. Sure you have "serious sport" fencing...
But then you have stuff like HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) style fencing, for those who like their swords a bit...bigger...
And of course SCA (Society of Creative Anachronism), for those who do want to dress up in authentic costumes and use more "creative" moves (or at least moves that sound more fun)...
Now assuming all my direct linked images didn't go all Red X on me (if they do I'll rehost), notice the SCA guy parrying with a cape. In an olympic style or HEMA style match that would be illegal, and well impossible (since they don't wear capes, why would you wear a cape? It's bulky and will just get caught on stuff and blah blah blah). But at a SCA event that kind of move would not only be legal, but considered kind of awesome. If an olympic style fencer showed up at that event (even the "serious athletes" sometimes like to unleash their inner Errol Flynn just for fun) and raised a stink over someone using a cape to parry he'd be laughed off the field for just not Getting It.
__________________
David Johnson, AKA Fubarius.
Nunquam emere possis quae facitis
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09-27-2014, 01:10 AM
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#46
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RED LETTERS
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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While I do appreciate the variety of sword play I still do not feel it has any relevance to paintball in any way. Paintballers acting out their rambo fantasy and well practiced swashbucklers have little in common. :/
Great pics though, not sure how often I believe the cap bit would work out but it is cool. Capes need to make a come back, what bad *** doesn't wear a cape! lol
Last edited by VictorWTF : 09-27-2014 at 01:18 AM.
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09-27-2014, 01:52 AM
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#47
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Wow, it is blue.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New Richmond, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorWTF
While I do appreciate the variety of sword play I still do not feel it has any relevance to paintball in any way.
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Ah, but it's a parallel. You got the hyper athleticism and competitiveness in Olympic fencing and competitive Speedball. You got the "I want to dress up like a pirate/army dude and carry a sword/machinegun" roleplay in SCA and scenario games. And HEMA and the rest of paintball falling in between the two.
Quote:
Paintballers acting out their rambo fantasy and well practiced swashbucklers have little in common.
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Just the entire acting out their fantasy bit. The SCA guys don't actually believe that they're pirates or musketeers, and the Mil-Sim guys don't actually believe that they're special forces. But both groups believe that their respective fantasies sound like something that would be fun to emulate for an afternoon.
__________________
David Johnson, AKA Fubarius.
Nunquam emere possis quae facitis
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09-27-2014, 02:12 AM
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#48
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RED LETTERS
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubarius
Ah, but it's a parallel. You got the hyper athleticism and competitiveness in Olympic fencing and competitive Speedball. You got the "I want to dress up like a pirate/army dude and carry a sword/machinegun" roleplay in SCA and scenario games. And HEMA and the rest of paintball falling in between the two.
Just the entire acting out their fantasy bit. The SCA guys don't actually believe that they're pirates or musketeers, and the Mil-Sim guys don't actually believe that they're special forces. But both groups believe that their respective fantasies sound like something that would be fun to emulate for an afternoon.
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Right I get that, however larpers don't believe they are wizards but enjoy acting as such for an afternoon, and I don't particularly feel many people want paintball wizards tossing magical paint missiles at them. The point here being that some things just don't belong.
I would also be willing to bet that a HEMA participant? player? I don't know the proper term sorry, is more versed in swordplay than a milsim paintballer is, not to mention we aren't knife fighting we are shooting each other so there's just no need for the knife, just shoot and move on.
To the point of "added realism" while we are at it, no one would pull a knife to stab someone with a gun, simply a poor decision that would end poorly for you, shoot and move on.
It doesn't bring "realism" to milsim and it doesn't have a place of it's own, want to sword/knife fight, go sword/knife fight there are entire arts and sports of it which would give a vastly more in depth and exciting experience.
Perhaps we should pm? I feel like i'm asking for infractions at this point with the topic having drifted from the op
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09-27-2014, 02:28 AM
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#49
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Wow, it is blue.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New Richmond, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorWTF
Right I get that, however larpers don't believe they are wizards but enjoy acting as such for an afternoon, and I don't particularly feel many people want paintball wizards tossing magical paint missiles at them. The point here being that some things just don't belong.
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You haven't been to some of the scenario games that I've been to. Wizards, aliens, elves, orcs, zombies, mobsters, cowboys, sometimes at the SAME GAME.
In one Zombies VS Humans game I watched 60 zombie players eliminated, simultaneously, because a human player opened a box. It's not about realism, but about the story. And in this story this box contained the "cure" for the zombie outbreak and opening it would eliminate all players who were converted zombie players and reinsert them at the human team's base.
Remember, in this game you're not out because a ball broke on you. You're out because the rules of that day say you are out when a ball broke on you, or you got tapped on the shoulder by a barrel/swab/rubber knife/stick, or someone with the title "General" called in an "airstrike" at the flag station you happened to be with in 10 feet of, or someone in a pointy hat handed a ticket to a ref while pointing at you and shouting "fireball!".
__________________
David Johnson, AKA Fubarius.
Nunquam emere possis quae facitis
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09-27-2014, 10:20 AM
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#50
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.detcilfnI ehT
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorWTF
While I do appreciate the variety of sword play I still do not feel it has any relevance to paintball in any way. Paintballers acting out their rambo fantasy and well practiced swashbucklers have little in common. :/
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I would imagine that in both the milsim paintballer and historical fencing camps, there are many participants who aren't "acting out fantasies".
A lot of people are probably drawn to the technical aspects but also enjoy the aesthetics, even if that enjoyment doesn't necessarily require them to suspend reality.
Not everyone does things for the same reason.
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09-27-2014, 01:08 PM
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#51
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SSM, Ontario, Canada
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In either case, I'm pretty sure if any of these guys walked down the road, you wouldn't feel they were dangerous lol. Unless of course they had real weapons. It's perception........reality is irrelevant to the masses. This is why politicians have to lie to be elected. This is why products and companies false advertise. This is why paintball players need to keep it low key. The average human is incapable of logical thought, only emotional responses based on their own personal beliefs and egos. Not truth.......belief!.
__________________
It's all about the angles.
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09-29-2014, 11:52 AM
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#52
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: So. Cal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inflicted
I would imagine that in both the milsim paintballer and historical fencing camps, there are many participants who aren't "acting out fantasies".
A lot of people are probably drawn to the technical aspects but also enjoy the aesthetics, even if that enjoyment doesn't necessarily require them to suspend reality.
Not everyone does things for the same reason.
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<---- One of those that appreciates the technical aspects and enjoys the aesthetics...
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10-26-2014, 12:44 AM
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#53
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Nice comeback, but really that guy is just a dick.
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10-28-2014, 02:51 PM
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#54
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Michigan
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ya he has no place to be a complete dick about if he doesnt like milsim he doesnt have to partake thats that
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10-28-2014, 06:58 PM
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#55
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The Sleep Deprived
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Houston
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Let it roll off your back. Get em back when he isn't looking
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10-28-2014, 08:58 PM
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#56
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
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Dress how you want, if you feel like skipping down the field in a tutu go for it.
I wear a set of my brother's acu's they're great for paintball, however some people are weird about military outfits. They way I see it military clothes are built to take a beating and i tend to have more bounces than with jeans.
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11-04-2014, 07:21 PM
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#57
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The main bud I go to play with always go with the milsim look, and he gets more comments than anything. I usually have a camo t-shirt on and then my PE pants. Just wear whatever you want. You just ran into a real POS.
Honestly the only thing I can't stand when playing rec ball are people ramping or shooting uncapped semi, and bonus ballers against renters. Stop turning people off to a great game dip****s
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11-08-2014, 11:03 AM
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#58
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Official MidWest Streamer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Madison, NE
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If you're ever in Iowa or Nebraska hit me up and we'll play and no one will be a dick to you. We got more manners than that.
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11-09-2014, 10:33 AM
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#59
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That's not cool.
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11-09-2014, 10:19 PM
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#60
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GERBIL
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that guy is an ******* and i would have reported him to the management
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11-09-2014, 10:44 PM
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#61
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^I hate my name^
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ohio
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Wear what you want. The game is for fun man, who cares what you wear. Don't let one bad apple ruin the sport for you.
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11-11-2014, 04:30 AM
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#62
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: La Canada, CA
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Join his team for the last game and team kill before you leave... Not the greatest advocate for the sport but revenge is sweet. !!!
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11-11-2014, 06:35 AM
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#63
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Trails of Doom
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: West Chester, Ohio
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Guy was a complete jerk. And sadly there ARE jerks that play paintball, and in my experience the biggest jerks on the field are usually wearing the latest speedball gear...
Why that is... I have no idea, but every blatant cheater I've run across, or just plain a$$ on the field is wearing a speedball jersey and typically has a high end gun in their hands.
This past Sunday I was playing at my local field, and I figured I'd try out my new magfed 98 custom on the speedball field, so I walked over and waited for the group of 10 or so speedballers to get a game going. While I was waiting one of the young agglets was bragging about how he wipes constantly in rec ball... And shoots refs for fun.
The guys standing around him laughed.
I was shocked speechless (which is something for me...).
I played two games with them, and went back to the regular rec ball side. See if that little agglet had bragged about doing that on the rec ball side, people would have called him out on it and asked what the point is of playing paintball if you are going to cheat?
But, in speedball, that is acceptable behavior, and even promoted... Look at the speedball videos, they show pros wiping hits often... Or just plain bonus balling the heck out of someone from a foot away. (latest GI sports paint video is a perfect example).
The speedballers didn't have enough games going on their side, so they came over and played rec ball. I shot one of them in the arm and watched it break on them (using my Tipx mind you, mag fed) and the speedballer wiped it off and kept playing...
What is the point if you are gonna ignore hits in rec ball?... Sure YOU get to play longer, but you ruined the fun of the game for everyone else.
Selfish players ruin the sport.
Oh, and I wear camo every time I play... Always have.
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Last edited by FreeEnterprise : 11-11-2014 at 06:39 AM.
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