[~OA-Soldier~]

Originally Posted by player12345

Luck, yell thats what you call putting in your time for 12 years luck. Then hell I am one lucky person in this sport, I sacrafice just as much as anyone else has in paintball and given back thrice fold. I have paid entrys for newer teams out of my own pocket to go to local tourneys of which I have gotten no return except to see them progress. I have earned where I have gotten to and to call me a pissant just shows your true colors (wait you want to get personal, you were Shawn Walkers friend so I guess we know your true colors). Not once did I bash your ideas (they are not economically feasible and in your words $300 was enough of a discount, well thats only $42 per person as you said $14 per person wasn't enough how is $28 more going to help you get to the event) and I am not under anyones umbrella. Tom owns the teams I play on and thats all, my opinions and everything I write is my own, Tom can handle his own stuff. I can't respect anyone for 4 pages that *****es and bashes at anyone that writes anything that goes against your belief. You even go into other threads and say all the fan boys of the USPL will come and defend their discount. A discount is a discount no matter how big or small, its your beliefs (discount means hundreds or thousands) that are flawed. We get everything discounted, do you speak from fact because I handle all the flights / hotels / rental cars / entries and can show you we paid for everything with no discounts. (Sorry we get plane and rental discounts through our travel agency). Actually we overpaid the NPPL last year and can't get the money back now. I guess we weren't freinds with Shawn to get the discounts you were getting even though were were putting 4 teams into every event.

This is a free forum and give whatever opinions you want but don't expect everyone to agree with you and if that hurts your feelings you are goingto have a long hard life. Paintball is just like life, if you want to get something that is expensive, you either cut back in other areas to save money to get it or you go without it. Can't afford to go to a national event then I am sorry to say you should not go until you are ready to afford it. If the team couldn't save up enough money in 4 months to go to HB then they should not be going and strive for another event or stay at the local level. This is a entertainment and hobby level sport that for now doesn't have a high paying future for all. As in any other hobby if you can't afford it then do not do it. I love playing poker, can I do the world series of poker (no), I don't have the $10,000 entry fee so you won't see me there but I play smaller ones occasionally just like paintball if you can afford the big one then go if you can't then don't.

Tony smasshhhhh!

[undrdg]

Originally Posted by player12345

Luck, yell thats what you call putting in your time for 12 years luck. Then hell I am one lucky person in this sport, I sacrafice just as much as anyone else has in paintball and given back thrice fold. I have paid entrys for newer teams out of my own pocket to go to local tourneys of which I have gotten no return except to see them progress. I have earned where I have gotten to and to call me a pissant just shows your true colors (wait you want to get personal, you were Shawn Walkers friend so I guess we know your true colors). Not once did I bash your ideas (they are not economically feasible and in your words $300 was enough of a discount, well thats only $42 per person as you said $14 per person wasn't enough how is $28 more going to help you get to the event) and I am not under anyones umbrella. Tom owns the teams I play on and thats all, my opinions and everything I write is my own, Tom can handle his own stuff. I can't respect anyone for 4 pages that *****es and bashes at anyone that writes anything that goes against your belief. You even go into other threads and say all the fan boys of the USPL will come and defend their discount. A discount is a discount no matter how big or small, its your beliefs (discount means hundreds or thousands) that are flawed. We get everything discounted, do you speak from fact because I handle all the flights / hotels / rental cars / entries and can show you we paid for everything with no discounts. (Sorry we get plane and rental discounts through our travel agency). Actually we overpaid the NPPL last year and can't get the money back now. I guess we weren't freinds with Shawn to get the discounts you were getting even though were were putting 4 teams into every event.

This is a free forum and give whatever opinions you want but don't expect everyone to agree with you and if that hurts your feelings you are goingto have a long hard life. Paintball is just like life, if you want to get something that is expensive, you either cut back in other areas to save money to get it or you go without it. Can't afford to go to a national event then I am sorry to say you should not go until you are ready to afford it. If the team couldn't save up enough money in 4 months to go to HB then they should not be going and strive for another event or stay at the local level. This is a entertainment and hobby level sport that for now doesn't have a high paying future for all. As in any other hobby if you can't afford it then do not do it. I love playing poker, can I do the world series of poker (no), I don't have the $10,000 entry fee so you won't see me there but I play smaller ones occasionally just like paintball if you can afford the big one then go if you can't then don't.

I have done the same things you have. Paid entry fees for teams, sacrificed, everything. Yet all you seem to be able to see is "*****ing" on my part.
If you can't comprehend what i am trying to say, then just shut the hell up or engage me like a normal person. I do not tolerate your tone nor will i put up with it.

Tom pays your entry fees, therefore your views are skewed. Teams are struggling out there, and the best you can say is, if you cant' afford it then don't play? Thats a super philosophy. Coming from someone that will be playing virtually for free.

I stand by what I said, because all you fan boys (yes i said it again) don't seem to comprehend that this isn't 2004, that 2004 prices can't apply to 2009 .
My view may have been incorrect (to you), but i am not the only that said something, like you said in a another thread someone else complained. Go tell them no to play if they can't afford it.

Paintball is nothing like life. Life is hard, life is real, life is what everyone goes back to after they finish playing paintball. We play paintball to escape life.
Don't think for one second that it isn't.

Congratulations, you paid your dues for 12 years. So what? So now you are entitled to get everything for free? Again paintballl is not like real life.

Shawn walker, yeah i am friends with him. So what. I never got anything for free or discounted like you do. So what if i defended him? Doesn't change the fact that many teams can't afford the USPL and they thought they would because the USPL said one of their main goals was to lower entry fees.

Yes i think $42 bucks a person is a much more reasonable discount than 12 bucks a person. Do i think its enough? No. But its a start.
The question here isn't, if i can afford to play. The question is, can other teams out there afford to play. And if they can't, will this league survive?

Maybe i speak for more people thank you think Mr Savage.

[**GP**]

There are not going to change the entry fees so if you do not like it just don't play. If you want to play then you will have to pay the same as everyone else in the division. $100 is less than last year and they did say it would be lower (they never said how much lower) and they are lower than last year.
It's really very simple.

[pmac2002]

Originally Posted by **GP**

There are not going to change the entry fees so if you do not like it just don't play. If you want to play then you will have to pay the same as everyone else in the division. $100 is less than last year and they did say it would be lower (they never said how much lower) and they are lower than last year.
It's really very simple.

I have to agree business is out there to make money! The uspl is no different if you think it is too expensive simply dont play!

[**GP**]

Originally Posted by pmac2002

I have to agree business is out there to make money! The uspl is no different if you think it is too expensive simply dont play!

It is true. I would love to play for like $1000 entry fee but then again I am smart enough to know they would be gone after 1 event for that kind of entry fees. I am thinking just to rent HB is around $80k ot $100k after all the stuff they have to do ect.

[PbN_AutoTrader]

Originally Posted by undrdg

I stand by what I said, because all you fan boys (yes i said it again) don't seem to comprehend that this isn't 2004, that 2004 prices can't apply to 2009 .
My view may have been incorrect (to you), but i am not the only that said something, like you said in a another thread someone else complained. Go tell them no to play if they can't afford it.

Shawn walker, yeah i am friends with him. So what. I never got anything for free or discounted like you do. So what if i defended him? Doesn't change the fact that many teams can't afford the USPL and they thought they would because the USPL said one of their main goals was to lower entry fees.

I'm not comprehending.
You're right this is 2009. Things cost more money now a days. Gas is no longer .89 a gallon.

You played in Shawn Walker's league with no problem. I don't see how you can't afford to play USPL if you afforded NPPL considering the USPL's prices are $100+ cheaper.

BTW I don't get anything paid for and I have never played NPPL.

The thing is this.
It's not going to go any lower unless teams don't show up which shows that teams can't afford it. Now, if that happens ; entry fees can only go SO low before you are negative. Not to mention I don't think the many people involved in setting this up / running it would do it entirely for free.
I'm in the middle of establishing my own league in my area and it involves a lot of time / headache and it's only in 1 state. Doing something on this scale requires even more time and headaches.

I understand where you are coming from entirely. I may not agree but I kind of see what you are saying. I would agree with you only if the entry fees were increased. Then I would say a "questioning" is justified. (Like with PSP , I basically "called them out" for raising entry fees AND decreasing PLAY TIME as well as PRIZES.)

Which would you prefer?
Lower entry fees and good / better price packages
Higher entry fees, less play time, and lower valued prizes

So basically I don't believe entry fees will go down unless the USPL is not able to get enough teams needed to operate. Now if there is a higher demand than the league can handle, the league could very well "justify" a cost increase. (After all supply / demand. Higher demand than supply = higher cost). However I don't believe they would do that. Then again I could be wrong but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

[TzeentchianGod]

Originally Posted by PbN_AutoTrader

(Like with PSP , I basically "called them out" for raising entry fees AND decreasing PLAY TIME as well as PRIZES.)

oh fer chrissakes. entree fees did not go up

[~OA-Soldier~]

Im starting a new league. It'll be free. I'll be slinging crack on the side to keep it alive. Everyone please play.

Kthanks

[PbN_AutoTrader]

Originally Posted by TzeentchianGod

oh fer chrissakes. entree fees did not go up

Why are you quoting me?


PSP's entry fees did increase so I don't see what you are saying.

[NJXL]

any1 know if it is byop?

[anjordan77]

Yes, it's byop

[Bzump]

This guy is a tool. He is the exact thing that is wrong with this sport. Please stop having anything to do with paintball. I am talking to Undrdg. If anybody could not guess.

[danbob1088]

Originally Posted by undrdg

I have done the same things you have. Paid entry fees for teams, sacrificed, everything. Yet all you seem to be able to see is "*****ing" on my part.
If you can't comprehend what i am trying to say, then just shut the hell up or engage me like a normal person. I do not tolerate your tone nor will i put up with it.

Tom pays your entry fees, therefore your views are skewed. Teams are struggling out there, and the best you can say is, if you cant' afford it then don't play? Thats a super philosophy. Coming from someone that will be playing virtually for free.

I stand by what I said, because all you fan boys (yes i said it again) don't seem to comprehend that this isn't 2004, that 2004 prices can't apply to 2009 .
My view may have been incorrect (to you), but i am not the only that said something, like you said in a another thread someone else complained. Go tell them no to play if they can't afford it.

Paintball is nothing like life. Life is hard, life is real, life is what everyone goes back to after they finish playing paintball. We play paintball to escape life.
Don't think for one second that it isn't.

Congratulations, you paid your dues for 12 years. So what? So now you are entitled to get everything for free? Again paintballl is not like real life.

Shawn walker, yeah i am friends with him. So what. I never got anything for free or discounted like you do. So what if i defended him? Doesn't change the fact that many teams can't afford the USPL and they thought they would because the USPL said one of their main goals was to lower entry fees.

Yes i think $42 bucks a person is a much more reasonable discount than 12 bucks a person. Do i think its enough? No. But its a start.
The question here isn't, if i can afford to play. The question is, can other teams out there afford to play. And if they can't, will this league survive?

Maybe i speak for more people thank you think Mr Savage.

While I do understand what you are saying, I can't agree with pretty much any of your points.

Where exactly do you expect the USPL to cut the costs enough to drop entry fees per team more than $42/person? Or more than the current amount, $12/person? You assumed it would be a drastic drop in entry fee; they never, not once, said it would drop substantially. I know that they are not flying refs out anymore for the most part, which will cut costs. They got rid of some of the overhead, yes - but they've raised the incentive to play, the prize package, which anyone who wins an event will want to have mean something. Sure, you could give the winning team $100 - but what is the point of that?

Paintball isn't cheap. You've acknowledged this. What is $42 dollars to someone at an event? How much money do players WASTE at events out on the town eating, or drinking it up, or buying useless ****?

You'd be amazed at how you can cut costs if you really want to on a personal level.

Also, if you don't like someone's "tone" - don't respond. It is a public forum - what are you going to do to "not put up with it"? Sounding tough on the internet is pointless, so just move on.

You have your points. Everyone else has theirs. Last I checked you don't have the inside numbers for the USPL, so you don't know where their costs are. Why don't you have a little bit of positive energy and understand that even the small cost change to each team has an enormous impact on the funding for the league.

If you can't see that, get your eyes checked.

I struggle to play when I can, I struggle to get to tournaments. I have my parents (even though I am in college, they still monitor my money) on my *** all the time to save instead of spend. For most people, if they can't afford a national tournament they just can't. Irregardless of whether they save $42 on an entry fee, or even more then that; small change in the grand scheme of it all. Those that can afford will play, those that can't won't. If the USPL can't cut even with the registered teams now, then maybe we'll see slightly lower fees (to entice more teams) in the future. If you don't like where it is at now - play somewhere else. Tony is right in one respect - if you can't afford to play the league, with the fees set where the LEAGUE will break even - then don't play. That is to anyone. If you can't afford to play, you can't afford it. Simple.

I'll say that with ease, and I don't have anything really paid for me. I pay my own way for practices, I pay for all my own equipment, and I get a slight discount through my school only for the college team tournaments we play, which is ~4 a year. We all struggle to play, but we aren't naive enough to think that a league in the current climate especially can significantly drop NATIONAL event costs.

There are local and regional series for a reason.

Also, a little less than a month before the registration deadline and there are 81 teams registered. Tells you something.

[undrdg]

Originally Posted by danbob1088

Where exactly do you expect the USPL to cut the costs enough to drop entry fees per team more than $42/person? Or more than the current amount, $12/person? You assumed it would be a drastic drop in entry fee; they never, not once, said it would drop substantially. I know that they are not flying refs out anymore for the most part, which will cut costs. They got rid of some of the overhead, yes - but they've raised the incentive to play, the prize package, which anyone who wins an event will want to have mean something. Sure, you could give the winning team $100 - but what is the point of that?

Thats not what i was trying to get at. I was merely pointing out the fact that the uspl advertised lower entry fees for teams by lowering their overhead. It was one of the main selling points of the leauge. I was just expecting them to lower the entry fees more substantially thats all. After that, i was asked how much, and i just threw out a number that in my opinion was substantially lower.

Paintball isn't cheap. You've acknowledged this. What is $42 dollars to someone at an event? How much money do players WASTE at events out on the town eating, or drinking it up, or buying useless ****?

You'd be amazed at how you can cut costs if you really want to on a personal level.

Just because paintball isn't cheap doesn't mean you can't attempt to make it cheaper. Just as you pointed out you can cut costs at a personal level, i too believe the USPL or the PSP or any league, can do things to cut costs at their level too. Especially in this economy.

Also, if you don't like someone's "tone" - don't respond. It is a public forum - what are you going to do to "not put up with it"? Sounding tough on the internet is pointless, so just move on.

There is a difference between sounding tough and defending yourself.

You have your points. Everyone else has theirs. Last I checked you don't have the inside numbers for the USPL, so you don't know where their costs are. Why don't you have a little bit of positive energy and understand that even the small cost change to each team has an enormous impact on the funding for the league.

If you can't see that, get your eyes checked.

Perhaps i do have an inside number as to how much it costs the USPL.
I do realize the size of this endeavor. However we are a month out before the tournament and there are only 70 7man teams registered and only a handful paid.
I remember when HB sold out in hours.
Hopefully more teams will sign up.

I struggle to play when I can, I struggle to get to tournaments. I have my parents (even though I am in college, they still monitor my money) on my *** all the time to save instead of spend. For most people, if they can't afford a national tournament they just can't. Irregardless of whether they save $42 on an entry fee, or even more then that; small change in the grand scheme of it all. Those that can afford will play, those that can't won't. If the USPL can't cut even with the registered teams now, then maybe we'll see slightly lower fees (to entice more teams) in the future. If you don't like where it is at now - play somewhere else. Tony is right in one respect - if you can't afford to play the league, with the fees set where the LEAGUE will break even - then don't play. That is to anyone. If you can't afford to play, you can't afford it. Simple.

I'll say that with ease, and I don't have anything really paid for me. I pay my own way for practices, I pay for all my own equipment, and I get a slight discount through my school only for the college team tournaments we play, which is ~4 a year. We all struggle to play, but we aren't naive enough to think that a league in the current climate especially can significantly drop NATIONAL event costs.

There are local and regional series for a reason.
e
Also, a little less than a month before the registration deadline and there are 81 teams registered. Tells you something.

It does tell me something. A lot of teams can't afford to play or don't want to, or both.
Thus my point. I wonder how many more teams they would have gotten if they lowered the fees even more. IT is all speculation at this point.
And i hope they all sign up before March 9, when entry fees go up 100 bucks more, making the USPL just as expensive as the NPPL was last year.

Originally Posted by Bzump

This guy is a tool. He is the exact thing that is wrong with this sport. Please stop having anything to do with paintball. I am talking to Undrdg. If anybody could not guess.

A tool? Thanks for the kind words Art.
I am the embodyment of whats completely wrong with paintball?
Please, show me the error of my ways. Tell me in your infinite wisdom what i can do to make paintball better?
The only 2 choices you have given me are play or don't play. Not very constructive criticism. Especially from someone in your position.

Perhaps you can give me some phone numbers of NFL players that are willing to sponsor paintball teams?

[PbN_AutoTrader]

Originally Posted by danbob1088

While I do understand what you are saying, I can't agree with pretty much any of your points.

Where exactly do you expect the USPL to cut the costs enough to drop entry fees per team more than $42/person? Or more than the current amount, $12/person? You assumed it would be a drastic drop in entry fee; they never, not once, said it would drop substantially. I know that they are not flying refs out anymore for the most part, which will cut costs. They got rid of some of the overhead, yes - but they've raised the incentive to play, the prize package, which anyone who wins an event will want to have mean something. Sure, you could give the winning team $100 - but what is the point of that?

Paintball isn't cheap. You've acknowledged this. What is $42 dollars to someone at an event? How much money do players WASTE at events out on the town eating, or drinking it up, or buying useless ****?

You'd be amazed at how you can cut costs if you really want to on a personal level.

Also, if you don't like someone's "tone" - don't respond. It is a public forum - what are you going to do to "not put up with it"? Sounding tough on the internet is pointless, so just move on.

You have your points. Everyone else has theirs. Last I checked you don't have the inside numbers for the USPL, so you don't know where their costs are. Why don't you have a little bit of positive energy and understand that even the small cost change to each team has an enormous impact on the funding for the league.

If you can't see that, get your eyes checked.

I struggle to play when I can, I struggle to get to tournaments. I have my parents (even though I am in college, they still monitor my money) on my *** all the time to save instead of spend. For most people, if they can't afford a national tournament they just can't. Irregardless of whether they save $42 on an entry fee, or even more then that; small change in the grand scheme of it all. Those that can afford will play, those that can't won't. If the USPL can't cut even with the registered teams now, then maybe we'll see slightly lower fees (to entice more teams) in the future. If you don't like where it is at now - play somewhere else. Tony is right in one respect - if you can't afford to play the league, with the fees set where the LEAGUE will break even - then don't play. That is to anyone. If you can't afford to play, you can't afford it. Simple.

I'll say that with ease, and I don't have anything really paid for me. I pay my own way for practices, I pay for all my own equipment, and I get a slight discount through my school only for the college team tournaments we play, which is ~4 a year. We all struggle to play, but we aren't naive enough to think that a league in the current climate especially can significantly drop NATIONAL event costs.

There are local and regional series for a reason.

Also, a little less than a month before the registration deadline and there are 81 teams registered. Tells you something.

Just le tit die already

[Bzump]

Wow! This guy is awesome. Take a long walk off a short bridge.

[undrdg]

Originally Posted by Bzump

Wow! This guy is awesome. Take a long walk off a short bridge.

A short bridge? Seriously? What are you 10? That's all you have to say?
You have no ideas, no argument and no alternative means to supply advice.
All you have are insults and disrespect.
You think you know everything about paintball and running a tournament series like this one, but you are a consumer yourself.
All i was proposing was ways to play and keep costs down for us NON SPONSORED players, but all you can do is smirk and judge and insult.

All i hear is how in the long run it will save players money.
But what about saving players money now?

Players still need to spend money to get to these events and from the look of it not many are spending the cash to play.
So tell me where I am so detrimentally wrong? Tell me where i am the demise of paintball?

We are 1 month out from HB and 1 week away from them raising entry fees by the very margin you guys are so vehemently defending.

Yeah it costs money, no ****. But just because it does, does it mean we can't share ideas on how to perhaps lower them?
Common people.
Don't you think i want to play these events.

Not all of the teams here, have a padded sponsorship, or a rock solid hookup into the league.
Most teams playing this event will ONLY play this event and that is all.
Where is the significant cost savings for them?

70 7man teams? Compared to 145 from last year.