[Ghostfire]

Ok, I'm getting a little pissed off at the amount of ignorance surrounding President Tom's supposed threats of hatred towards Israel and the US. (President Tom being Iran's leader, I hate typing his name and Glen Beck gave me this name to use)

Let's cut to the chase. Iran is not threatening Israel with destruction. Iran's president has not threatened any action against Israel. Oh but in the media we here that Iran is clearly "committed to annihilating Israel" because he's a "mad" "hard-liner" who doesn't believe the holocaust ever happend.

BULL****

The most infamous quote, "Israel must be wiped off the map", is the most distorted piece of news journalism you'd expect to see from the New York Times and other media outlets.

In his October 2005 speech, President Tom never used the word "map" or the term "wiped off". According to Farsi-language experts like Juan Cole and even right-wing services like MEMRI, what he actually said was "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

OMG I'M SO SCARED! WHAT A JEW-HATING ARAB NAZI!

Please.

But what about his other supposed "threats" against Israel that are getting all you crazies to come out of the wood work? Here's one:

"There is no doubt: the new wave of assaults in Palestine will erase the stigma in [the] countenance of the Islamic world." Stigma being Israel in this case.

Ooops! He didn't say that! The original text says " wave of morality ". Wow, big difference from " ASSAULT " huh? Oh but it pays to put words into your enemies mouth any chance you can.

Radio Free Europe reported that President Tom said "that the 'main cure' for crisis in the Middle East is the elimination of Israel." "Elimination of Israel" implies physical destruction: bombs, strafing, terror, throwing Jews into the sea. Tony Blair denounced the translated statement as "quite shocking".

But wait a tick! President Tom never said this! According to al-Jazeera, what he actually said was "The real cure for the conflict is the elimination of the Zionist regime, but there should be an immediate ceasefire first."

OMG STOP THE HATE PRESIDENT TOM YOU'RE SCARING ME!

Just in case you didn't get it, "Regime" refers to governance, not populations or cities. Hell, many mainstream human rights activists believe that Israel's "regime" must indeed be transformed, although they disagree how. So what? You're going to brand human rights groups as terrorists now?

And now for the big one: President Tom denies the holocaust ever happend. What a pile of **** and you stepped right in it. Here is what the Subcommittee on Intelligence Policy reported President Tom as saying:

"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets."

BULL****!

He actually said this: "In the name of the Holocaust they have created a myth and regard it to be worthier than God, religion and the prophets." What does he mean by this? Basically that the US and Israel are using the holocaust to advance their political agendas. Hell, we've been using 9/11 for the same thing. I think he might be right on this one. But to actually believe that President Tom doesn't believe that the holocaust actually ever happend, is so foolish it's beyond comprehension.

So why is President Tom's words being distorted to everyday Americans? So you'll get on an aircraft carrier and ride the waves into Iran yourself, or at least back your government's attempt at doing so.

Freedom is on the march! But so are the lies.

[AutoMaggot]

How hard is it to type Mahmoud Amhadinejad?

[Ford]

Give the people what they want...

[Bobeo]

Originally Posted by Ghostfire

Ok, I'm getting a little pissed off at the amount of ignorance surrounding President Tom's supposed threats of hatred towards Israel and the US. (President Tom being Iran's leader, I hate typing his name and Glen Beck gave me this name to use)

Let's cut to the chase. Iran is not threatening Israel with destruction. Iran's president has not threatened any action against Israel. Oh but in the media we here that Iran is clearly "committed to annihilating Israel" because he's a "mad" "hard-liner" who doesn't believe the holocaust ever happend.

EDITED FOR LENGTH

"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets."



Freedom is on the march! But so are the lies.

I am confused. Al-Jazeera is a credible source but not the New York times, or any other western media outlet?

Hmmm..that is intersting. Also, back up your other statements with proof because I simply am not going to take your word for it

[Ford]

I cannot comment directly on the quote, but mis interpretations happen all the time. when Mahmoud Amhadinejad came to the UN in new york he was interviewed by one of the major news stations (NBC i think). After the interview the anchor noted that some of his questioning was lost in translation which may have skewed the president's (Mahmoud Amhadinejad) responce.

I dont have any evidence to back up that Mahmoud Amhadinejad's words have been mis interpretted, but I wouldnt be surprised.

[I love Impulses]

Originally Posted by AutoMaggot

How hard is it to type Mahmoud Amhadinejad?

Seriously, that made it more confusing with the "tom" part.

[Ghostfire]

Originally Posted by Bobeo

I am confused. Al-Jazeera is a credible source but not the New York times, or any other western media outlet?

Hmmm..that is intersting. Also, back up your other statements with proof because I simply am not going to take your word for it

If you read my post, I did provide sources.

Juan Cole
MEMRI
Al-Jazeera
Subcommitte of Intelligence Policy

I suppose you can read this interview on msnbc (if it's not too long for you)
Here's an excerpt: Notice how he talkes of the holocaust as if it actually happend...wow!

Williams: Is that a change in your position that Israel should be wiped away? And second, would you ever be willing to sit down with Jews, with scholars, with survivors of Hitler's camps where six million died? Our American film director Stephen Spielberg is one of many collecting the stories of those still alive, who will tell you of the dead, and the program to kill the Jews in Germany and elsewhere.

Ahmadinejad: I feel as there is a feeling a feeling of a need to get the truth here. Among American politicians as well as some media here. The main question is if this happened in Europe, what is the fault of the Palestinian people? This is a problem we have today, the root cause of many of our problems, not what happened 60 years ago. The Palestinian people are — their lives are being destroyed today. There's a pretext of the Holocaust. Lands have been occupied, usurped. What is their fault? What are they to be blamed for? Are they not human beings? Do they have no rights? What role did they play in the Holocaust? Some attempt to sort of change the subject. From the first day I said, "Well, assuming that the Holocaust happened..." Then again, what does it have to do with the Palestinian people? Not at all. Nothing. Believe me, Palestinian people are human beings. They have feelings. They like to live in their own land, to have the right to self determination, to feel secure in their homes. So that small kids are not killed. So that women are not taken from their own homes, taken from their own home. What is the future of such measures?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14912050/

[X_Paint]

WOW been on the politics thread only 10 days and is tired already!

Or perhaps you had a different name? Twice?

[Ghostfire]

Originally Posted by X_Paint

WOW been on the politics thread only 10 days and is tired already!

Or perhaps you had a different name? Twice?

Personal attacks are a sign of weakness, Pastor. Did you have anything to add to this thread other than your distaste for me?

[X_Paint]

Originally Posted by Ghostfire

Personal attacks are a sign of weakness, Pastor. Did you have anything to add to this thread other than your distaste for me?

My sincerest apologies for taking your thread off topic.

[Haga652001]

Originally Posted by Bobeo

I am confused. Al-Jazeera is a credible source but not the New York times, or any other western media outlet?

Hmmm..that is intersting. Also, back up your other statements with proof because I simply am not going to take your word for it

well being an Arab Network, they can probably translate farsi/muslim/whatever they speak in iran better than we can...

[Bobeo]

Originally Posted by Haga652001

well being an Arab Network, they can probably translate farsi/muslim/whatever they speak in iran better than we can...

They aalso hold anti-western ideologies so... I choose to take anything they say with a grain of salt.

Also, to the threadstarter, I can say in my post that the Virgin Mary called your mother a whore but that doesn't mean she actually did so. Look:

The Virgin Mary called me last night and called your mother a whore.

When I wasked for sources, I was asking where you found this information so I could check it. A url address would have been great.

EDIT: The entire whore thing was only used to convey humor while making a point. I wasn't trying to flame you or offend anyone. Sort of sad I have to type this right now isn't it?

[Ghostfire]

Originally Posted by Bobeo

They aalso hold anti-western ideologies so... I choose to take anything they say with a grain of salt.

Where do you come up with this? Obviously you made this statement up. But can you admit it to yourself?

Did you know most muslim/arab regimes hate Al-Jazeera too? Syria won't let them do business beyond their borders. Saddam hated them with a passion, because Al-Jazeera kept calling him out on his bull****. Saudi Arabia won't let Al-Jazeera open up an office in their kingdom. Jordan and Kuwait kicked their offices out of their country. I guess their anti-islam too. So, if they're anti-west AND anti-islam, what does that make them?

Did you also know Al-jazeera hired a US Marine to be their American Corespondant? He must be a traitor in your eyes. Excerpt from article:

[Former Marine who serverd in Iraq]Rushing says he looked into the accusations about Al Jazeera distorting the news, and found nothing to stop him from joining. "I'm not condoning everything they do but the Arab media is a key part of national security and how to deal with Arab world. The network has long been the only one in the region with a point-counterpoint approach, where many others are 'point-point-point.' Al Jazeera, for example regularly has Israeli spokespeople on." Rushing says the State Department and Pentagon have both shown interest in working with the new network. "What the Marines trained me to do was to represent the best of what America stands for to a foreign audience. That's exactly what I'm going to do."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...110008,00.html

Anti-west. Please. They all wear fricking armani suits for christ's sake. Al-jazeera has revolutionized the media in the middle east. eos. Free press for all, not just Americans.

[Bobeo]

OK, first of all, anti-western was too strong of a term. I simply meant that they had a bias towards Islam much like there are conservative and liberal media outlets that have biases.

However, I concede. Yes, I have never bothered watching Al-Jazeera o visiting their website. I assumed that they held these views. I just went to their site.

I only glanced at it for a second and found no proof for my statement. However, I would not doubt that they hold biases toward the Muslim world.

OK, I admitted my wrong, now please, post links to your statements.

[Ghostfire]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/me...4/iran.israel/

First link is one of cnn's reported translations. "They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets,"

2nd link is what he actually said. Check the dates if you don't believe me.

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=963

Now, for the record, I think President Tom is a fool. Why? Because I think Islam in general is full of crap (no offense to you muslims on the board). President Tom is playing the word game, and quite nicely. But it's simply idiotic to believe he has the intent of " wiping israel off the map ". He's also, in a very odd way, trying to tie together Palestine and the Holocaust. He constantly says " if the holocaust happend in europe, why are the palestinians paying for it? " He claims the REAL holocaust is happening in Palestine. These are just words to gather support for his agenda. I don't for one minute believe President Tom has never read a history book. It's kind of like people claiming Bush is super stupid. Really? Then how did he get to be president? Hell, even The Iranian Foreign Minister Manuchehr Mottaki has come forward claiming he and his people believe the Holocaust happend, and that others are misinterpeting President Tom's words.

"Mottaki also acknowledged the Holocaust, in which six million Jews were killed by Nazi Germany, despite Ahmadinejad saying in December that it was a myth." http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C764F69F9B.htm

My personal view is that he is wording his statements in a blunt, yet highly vague way to start controversy. And it's working.

[Haga652001]

Originally Posted by Bobeo

They aalso hold anti-western ideologies so... I choose to take anything they say with a grain of salt.

Also, to the threadstarter, I can say in my post that the Virgin Mary called your mother a whore but that doesn't mean she actually did so. Look:

The Virgin Mary called me last night and called your mother a whore.

When I wasked for sources, I was asking where you found this information so I could check it. A url address would have been great.

EDIT: The entire whore thing was only used to convey humor while making a point. I wasn't trying to flame you or offend anyone. Sort of sad I have to type this right now isn't it?

then you should also choose to take anything that CNN or Fox says about those translations with grain of salt also, they might hold to strong of anti-Islam bias.

[jasonlvandyke]

Originally Posted by AutoMaggot

How hard is it to type Mahmoud Amhadinejad?

Thats not the point. Glenn Beck is great. I used to be an O'Reilly fan but I like Glenn Beck better.

[Hose Factory]

I speak both English and Arabic (not Farsi) and I can get confused trying to translate the exact meaning that someone is trying to convey.

Slang and jargon does not translate well between lanuages.

Al-Jazeera does have a slant on the news. Those of use that can read Arabic and English can see that in the difference between the stories on the website.

[Swerve22]

So is Ghostfire really Tac5alive? Why'd he get banned?

[hp_lovecraft]

I like how people here have strong opinions about the nature of semantics and linguistics... yet don't even know what those terms mean.

NYT version: "Isreal Must be wiped off the face of the map"
Arab version: "Isreal Must be elliminated from the page of time".

Pretty much the same damn thing. President TOM is a jew-hating Nazi. He even admits to being so.

The premise of this thread is a joke though. You can never translate a language 100% because of expressions, and nou-phrases don't translate literally.

The speech contained an expression that doesnt exist in english. So, the NYT substituted "Pages of Time" with "Face of Map" because both expressions mean similar things.

And thats it. Linguistics is an extremely complex issue.

A common example is greetings: They are usually based on expressions that are not taken literally. In Japan, its common to say "Have to Eaten?" in Japanese instead of "How are You?", but both mean the same thing. In Ireland, they might say "God blesh everyone here" in Irish to also mean the same thing.

nick

[Swerve22]

Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft

In Japan, its common to say "Have to Eaten?" in Japanese instead of "How are You?"

No it's not.