[MstrKey]

Has anyone ever used the H3 bolt from DWÉ Seems like a pretty decent shot count claim. I was just curious.....I may have an old ion project to get working again soon. I`m more curious about efficiency than anything. I`ll mostly be playing bush ball next summer so most of my gear will be up for sale. A cheap lil ion will be fine. The only down side is I have to fill from scuba tanks.......3000psi max

[Lt. Tank]

If you DON´T have a redf virtue board on that Ion go with the L7. If you do have a virtue redf board don´t use the L7.
The Ion with the L7 a 360 or virtue QEV and a good reg will put you up to 11 pods out of a 4K fill minimum (off course lowering the dwell to 16ms)

[MstrKey]

What difference does the board make? Is it the dwell adjustment range?

[aresfiend]

No, what he said doesn't really make sense at all, the board does not matter at ALL. That being said, the Deadly Winds bolt is actually pretty good, although it's prone to leaking because of the way it's built.

I'd suggest an L7 over it though.

[tyronejk]

Originally Posted by aresfiend

No, what he said doesn't really make sense at all, the board does not matter at ALL. That being said, the Deadly Winds bolt is actually pretty good, although it's prone to leaking because of the way it's built.

I'd suggest an L7 over it though.

You're really gonna get into an ion argument with LT tank?

[Lt. Tank]

Originally Posted by aresfiend

No, what he said doesn't really make sense at all, the board does not matter at ALL. That being said, the Deadly Winds bolt is actually pretty good, although it's prone to leaking because of the way it's built.

I'd suggest an L7 over it though.

hey kid... no argument on your signature about been stupid.

To the first question ....like I said, L7 if no Vredf

[Lt. Tank]

Originally Posted by MstrKey

What difference does the board make? Is it the dwell adjustment range?

there is a thread out there and even a vid I uploaded on ytube.
Its the programing on the boards, problem is that not all the boards will do it. In my case, 3 vredf boards causing the same problem with dwells at 8 -10 -16- 21 -30 ms...off course of your dwell goes up the problem will show up less but will show up regardless.

i even put my stock board back on (when i had it) to rule the vredf out .....and it worked.
Ps. I ruled out qev, virtue qev, no qev, stock bolt, firewhatever bolt, l7 , and it came down to the board

my 2 cents

[bobbybowman90]

What issue were u having with that combination?

[MstrKey]

Originally Posted by Lt. Tank

there is a thread out there and even a vid I uploaded on ytube.
Its the programing on the boards, problem is that not all the boards will do it. In my case, 3 vredf boards causing the same problem with dwells at 8 -10 -16- 21 -30 ms...off course of your dwell goes up the problem will show up less but will show up regardless.

i even put my stock board back on (when i had it) to rule the vredf out .....and it worked.
Ps. I ruled out qev, virtue qev, no qev, stock bolt, firewhatever bolt, l7 , and it came down to the board

my 2 cents

Gotcha. It's all just up in the air for now. I'm not sure I even want to do the build...all that time and money for a gun that's still pretty heavy and not too pretty lol.

[aresfiend]

Originally Posted by Lt. Tank

hey kid... no argument on your signature about been stupid.

To the first question ....like I said, L7 if no Vredf

So wait, you can't spell worth **** (or barely even make a coherent statement), you won't actually tell what the problem is, and you're calling me stupid?

Originally Posted by Lt. Tank

there is a thread out there and even a vid I uploaded on ytube.
Its the programing on the boards, problem is that not all the boards will do it. In my case, 3 vredf boards causing the same problem with dwells at 8 -10 -16- 21 -30 ms...off course of your dwell goes up the problem will show up less but will show up regardless.

i even put my stock board back on (when i had it) to rule the vredf out .....and it worked.
Ps. I ruled out qev, virtue qev, no qev, stock bolt, firewhatever bolt, l7 , and it came down to the board

my 2 cents

So... Having owned 2 OLED Ion boards, 4 Redefined boards, and all of them using L7s and never seeing an issue....

The programming doesn't do ANYTHING with the bolt. The bolt is a lightweight piece of metal and doesn't interact with a board's programming at all, the board literally can't tell any difference between a stock bolt and the L7.

[nerdcore]

First of all, Lt Tank's ethnic roots give credence to the Spanish language. With that, one should give leeway to his English grammar. Second, he's done plenty with ions to pick up on certain performance patterns. I would not discount his knowledge.

Virtue Redefined boards for Ions are... finicky. The board controls air flow by controlling the 'noid, we can agree on that. Somehow, the TIMING of this control doesn't always sync up. Whether that is due the balance of recharge and dwell settings, or the machining tolerances of the particular ion or its parts, or perhaps a fault in the programming of the board, who's to know. Virtue certainly doesn't think there's a problem, but their opinion is biased. BUT i do know the problem did not exist with the original Virtue Ion board (pre-Redefined).

I had an ion w/ stock bolt, stock board, stock reg, 360 qev. Worked great.
- Installed a Virtue board (old version), adjusted settings accordingly to work with my preferences and the qev. Worked great.
- Installed a Orange Unicorn bolt. Adjusted the board again, to accommodate the new bolt. Worked great.
- Broke the power button off the board one day, my fault. Virtue hooked me up with a new board. A Redefined board. Adjusted settings to accommodate upgrades as before. Did not work great. Bolt cycled erratically. Tried adjusting dwell, tried new batteries, tried cleaning everything, including the reg. Did not help.
- Switched back to stock board, adjusted settings for the Unicorn bolt. Worked great.

Lt Tank and i are not the only ones who have experienced problems with the Redefined boards. I never bothered to narrow down the issue, but others have.

TO THE OP - sorry for the tl;dr. On topic, i suggest getting a Gog Enmey. Sounds like you're going the minimalist route, and that would work beautifully for your needs. Mech spoolie (or spool-ish), single trigger, no batteries. Relatively cheap, cheaper than a used ion w/ new upgrades.

[Lt. Tank]

Originally Posted by nerdcore

First of all, Lt Tank's ethnic roots give credence to the Spanish language. With that, one should give leeway to his English grammar. Second, he's done plenty with ions to pick up on certain performance patterns. I would not discount his knowledge.


Lt Tank and i are not the only ones who have experienced problems with the Redefined boards. I never bothered to narrow down the issue, but others have.

Thank you nerdcore... I appreciate it my friend. Leeway is a new word that i just learned, thanks for making my 37 year old vocabulary expand.

To the kid,
Although english is not my first language, some people (most likely the age of your dad) consider my english level to be more than optimum for a second language and to use it as a skill to work (ha...can you imagine that ), humble might be a word / definition that you could learn from if you interact with people here (the world is not only the US, hope you already pass geography )

That put aside... Let me wipe the poop out of your diapers.

After several conversations with Virtue and with their tech team it was clear to me that the programing of the dwell cycle and recharge cycle had issues , issues meaning that there was variation in the cycle time produced by the board (miliseconds) every so often. That variation can be expressed as a standard deviation of the final result (not achieving the desired milisecond on every trigger pull). Because its not a bullet proof PE board (example) the hours invested to produce the desired result were limited and therefore a minimal variation was expected on the cycle (if not expected it has been confirmed that exists ). I´ll assure you that virtue never though that a minimum variation could end up affecting the cycle or recharge of the modified Ion, however, the truth is that it did.

If you don´t know, just be quiet , learn , test for your self and share knowledge. Don´t post to troll people and to offend people here that are willing to help others and share lessons learned.

Modesty in behavior is something you lack .....sadly that not teachable (hope i didn´t just made that word up )

PS. change your signature if you hate people to quote your words

Ps2. Just because you need to learn, here is the second vid I took after sending my marker to Virtue and back . This was board 2 sent from them (it ended up been 3 boards and 1 oled after that)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41bmj5u7v38

[MstrKey]

Hmmm now that I've read this my comment in the other thread seems like it may help. The board probably does have a programming glitch.....I suggest messing with eye and bolt delay settings to balance out the programming if anyone has this issue in the future. In this case I would say to increase the numbers.

[Lt. Tank]

Originally Posted by MstrKey

Hmmm now that I've read this my comment in the other thread seems like it may help. The board probably does have a programming glitch.....I suggest messing with eye and bolt delay settings to balance out the programming if anyone has this issue in the future. In this case I would say to increase the numbers.

I can speak from my personal experience only. When I had the boards I tested every set up , changed dwell, delay, psp - nppl semi - full auto, pretty much every seting that could affect the cycles , but the result was the same. Again, In my case with 3 different vredf boards

[MstrKey]

Interesting...... that it only happens in ramp. If there were bad components on the board, every mode should be affected. Unless of course the coding for the ramp mode is just plain messed up.

[Punisher068]

Originally Posted by nerdcore

First of all, Lt Tank's ethnic roots give credence to the Spanish language. With that, one should give leeway to his English grammar. Second, he's done plenty with ions to pick up on certain performance patterns. I would not discount his knowledge.

Virtue Redefined boards for Ions are... finicky. The board controls air flow by controlling the 'noid, we can agree on that. Somehow, the TIMING of this control doesn't always sync up. Whether that is due the balance of recharge and dwell settings, or the machining tolerances of the particular ion or its parts, or perhaps a fault in the programming of the board, who's to know. Virtue certainly doesn't think there's a problem, but their opinion is biased. BUT i do know the problem did not exist with the original Virtue Ion board (pre-Redefined).

I had an ion w/ stock bolt, stock board, stock reg, 360 qev. Worked great.
- Installed a Virtue board (old version), adjusted settings accordingly to work with my preferences and the qev. Worked great.
- Installed a Orange Unicorn bolt. Adjusted the board again, to accommodate the new bolt. Worked great.
- Broke the power button off the board one day, my fault. Virtue hooked me up with a new board. A Redefined board. Adjusted settings to accommodate upgrades as before. Did not work great. Bolt cycled erratically. Tried adjusting dwell, tried new batteries, tried cleaning everything, including the reg. Did not help.
- Switched back to stock board, adjusted settings for the Unicorn bolt. Worked great.

Lt Tank and i are not the only ones who have experienced problems with the Redefined boards. I never bothered to narrow down the issue, but others have.

TO THE OP - sorry for the tl;dr. On topic, i suggest getting a Gog Enmey. Sounds like you're going the minimalist route, and that would work beautifully for your needs. Mech spoolie (or spool-ish), single trigger, no batteries. Relatively cheap, cheaper than a used ion w/ new upgrades.

these guys know there stuff,ive had the same issue but not too often
like the eNMey suggestion also,alot of gun for the money with less issues than an electro thou they cant use an L& bolt and probably not a DW bolt either.I had a DW bolt,I didnt care for it,kinda leeky,prefer the L7 also even with the minor annoyance.All my electro Ions&SP8s have them

[SHADOWofFAIR]

Tank speaks truth. TTT!

As for boards, i have also had probs with the virue redf. I sold it and i am happy i did. I own one of the few lucky spitfires left and it works great no hickups

Edit: to add useful info. I have owned both the l7 and now just the h3. The l7 is great simply because its the smallest bolt ever made and it works period. There are 4 reasons i don't own it anymore none which are due to raw performance.

1. The h3 IN THEORY can not break! some said they have many more not. And i have also read no reports of it either. i pray this never happens to me. The L7 IN THEORY can due to the small tail design. Once again never had it happen but have read many accounts of it doing so.

2. I prefer to have the bolt as gentle on paint as possible. DW has worked the kinks out of the first designs and put a rubber nose on the bolt so its soft on paint. Now this is also a trade off, the smaller opening means a louder sound sig when discharging air with each shot over the L7. I love how good it is on soft paint but i do miss my overall quietness.

3. Coupling the h3 with killa detents the ball falls firmly into the breach and does not role back into the face of the bolt. This is for sheer shot by shot consistency, something the l7 kinda has but the h3 does a much better job at. I was able to get my hands on 2 versions of the DW bolt. The V2 for the ionxe which had no rubber face and an easily removable backcap and i bought the v3 which is the version today with the rubber nose. I put the v3 bolt on the v2 back cap and have never looked back.

4. The l7 weighs 7grams. The v3 h3 weighs 9grams with the rubber nose. The extra weight IMO makes it feel more stable. Plus 3grams weight diff is unnoticeable period. The bolt still cycles just as fast as the l7.

These are my slightly scientific findings you choose.

[MstrKey]

I'd rather buy any bolt with a rubber tip. It does make a difference on stack clipping and roll back.