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Old 11-11-2001, 06:13 PM #1
Sealpointman
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best anti chop upgrades?

what upgrades can u do to ure cocker to make them chop less? i already run nitr (i dont know if that helps) and i shoot a boomstick with marbalizer (i think its a pretty good match because the balls dont roll out but i can blow them throgh fairly easy). i was thinking get a Superfly bolt. would that help? what else can make it chop less?
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Old 11-11-2001, 06:38 PM #2
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Learning the trigger is probably the best thing you can do. Other than that I would suggest an STO ram and some sort of adjustable pneumatic reg like a rock or sonic. The STO ram because of the large piston face allows for a lower cocking pressure and the adjustable reg because as your ram breaks in more and more, you can continually drop the cycling pressure, thus reducing the chance to chop a ball.
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Old 11-11-2001, 08:34 PM #3
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"a palmer's rock regualtor and some custom hammer springs can give you a marker that will never chop paint" - Action Pursuit Games Magazine / Nov. 2001
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Old 11-11-2001, 09:34 PM #4
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so if i bought a palmers rock reg and custom hammer springs and pulled my cockers trigger half back it wouldnt chop, yeah actually it would. Best thing is a good trigger finger, a nicly timed gun, or a hinge.
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Old 11-11-2001, 09:50 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Scandelouse
so if i bought a palmers rock reg and custom hammer springs and pulled my cockers trigger half back it wouldnt chop, yeah actually it would. Best thing is a good trigger finger, a nicly timed gun, or a hinge.

see, thats where your wrong, it wouldnt chop, it would just pinch the ball

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Old 11-11-2001, 11:40 PM #6
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Why does it have to be a Palmers? They all perform the exact same...sheesh. Even the Jackhammers are just as good now.
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Old 11-11-2001, 11:59 PM #7
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a gun thats timed correctly, has a corectly adjusted rock, and paint barrel match is good shouldt chop at all a sweetspotted reg couldnt hurt either
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Old 11-12-2001, 12:23 AM #8
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Re: best anti chop upgrades?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sealpointman
i was thinking get a Superfly bolt. would that help?
i think it would.. i have all ANS pnumatics... and before i had a cyclone bolt, i chopped about every game, no i dont chop at all... NICE i think its a good purchece
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Old 11-12-2001, 04:02 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Scandelouse
pulled my cockers trigger half back it wouldnt chop, yeah actually it would.
It will stop on the ball if you have it set up right. Nice try though...
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Old 11-12-2001, 04:24 PM #10
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plz explain how it would just pinch if i threw a rock reg on it, i would have to set my pressure lower, not just slap on a rock.
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Old 11-12-2001, 04:42 PM #11
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Well, DUH. Of course you'd have to adjust it to get maximum performance, but a five-year-old could reset an adjustable LPR. You were wrong, and you're trying to use semantics to clear yourself.

I mean, YOU suggested a Hinge frame to solve the problem. Do you think simply replacing the frame, with no retiming or switching the hoses, would solve his problem? I don't think so.
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Old 11-12-2001, 05:12 PM #12
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Look at this logically guys. What causes the cocker to chop? Well, it's the bolt. Now, what makes the bolt close with enough force to chop the ball? It's the ram. What controls the force the ram must operate at? The answer believe it or not is the main spring. If you have a light mainspring, it follows that your ram can operate with less force. It needs less force to cock because you need less force to overcome the mainspring. An externally adjustable pnuematics reg is nice but not 100% necessary. Since the ram is ultimately hooked up to the bolt, if your ram can operate with a low enough force, then it won't chop balls. So now the question is, how can I use a lighter mainspring and still maintain sufficient velocities?

Notice that I never said anything about low pressure, low cocking pressure or anything like that, it's just not true. It's cocking FORCE. 2 lbs of force is 2 lbs of force (measure unit isn't right but hey, you get the point) whether it's 100 psi or 30 psi causing the force.

Yochi.
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Old 11-12-2001, 05:15 PM #13
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Exactly. I've been preaching that for so long! It's gratifying to have someone who knows the same thing...

Keep up the good work, Yoch.

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Old 11-12-2001, 08:14 PM #14
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wait you confused me yochinamon, how does the main spring control the amount of force the ram puts on the bolt?
The way i think about itis the lower the cocking pressure is then the less amount of force is placed on the bolt moving back and forth.
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Old 11-12-2001, 08:35 PM #15
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Stop and imagine how a cocker works in your mind, and you'll see that when the gun cocks, it pulls the bolt and hammer back at the same time. Now, the reason you need so much force to cock the gun is because of a stiff main spring. If you have a main spring with X tension, and a main spring with 1/2 X tension, the one with 1/2 tension will allow for a lighter cocking pressure, because there is less force to overcome.

That's what Yochi said, just in different words.

You CAN adjust the stock LPR, its just a pain in the arse.
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Old 11-12-2001, 08:36 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Scandelouse
so if i bought a palmers rock reg and custom hammer springs and pulled my cockers trigger half back it wouldnt chop, yeah actually it would. Best thing is a good trigger finger, a nicly timed gun, or a hinge.
not necessarly, you could bounce, happens a lot with my bro's evo. the bolt just stops on the ball and then you pull the trigger again and then it fires. it is quite sweet
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Old 11-12-2001, 08:37 PM #17
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Oh, and a result of lowering your cocking pressure so that you can't chop is lowered operating pressure, because you need a light main spring to have a light cocking pressure. This forces you to lower operating pressure.

But you don't need extreme LP like a merlin body or anything to simply set your gun to not chop paint.
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Old 11-12-2001, 09:00 PM #18
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Im just saying, some inexperienced cocker person not wanting to chop reading that could be fooled. His gun could be badly timed and he could not shoot a cocker worth a flip and I bet you money he would chop. Or if you use brittle paint. Just putting on a rock reg isnt gonna help, your gonna have to do some ajusting.
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Old 11-12-2001, 09:55 PM #19
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psi?

at what pressure will the bolt pinch and not chop the ball? approximate answer obviously.
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:11 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Machine_Head_15119
Why does it have to be a Palmers? They all perform the exact same...sheesh. Even the Jackhammers are just as good now.
Well thats not true. The Palmers operates at a 70/1 ratio, that is, it takes an input of 70 psi to move the output by 1 psi, where as the ANS stuff has a ratio of 35/1. the rock is more consistant.

So, the rock is literally twice as good. Heh heh.
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:36 PM #21
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Venarius: Ok I don't know if that's accurate or if you're just stretching the truth. But whatever the case, the difference in performance isn't at all noticible. I have the ANS on my 'Cocker and my consistancy is almost flawless (285 psi w/1 +/-) with my Max Flow AND it never chops.

So even if what you say is true, the performance obviously isn't going to be affected in any way, shape or form. All I look for in a reg is reliability and minimal leaking. I've had my 'Cocker for over a year and NOTHING has leaked. Not even the Jackhammer.
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