der California state law, non-switchblade pocket knives that are concealed in the closed position can be legally carried, concealed or open-carry. Fixed-blades must be carried openly. Knives that are disguised as something else (belt buckle, shotgun shell, etc.) are completely banned. Switchblades may be owned privately in the home, but not street-carried; while not specified, most people assume that transport is legal on the same basis as a gun: locked in the trunk in a locked container. Cane swords are completely banned.
SECTION ONE: THE SWITCHBLADE/LEGAL FOLDING KNIFE RULES
WHAT'S LEGAL:
Your lockblade folding knife should have a thumbstud, thumb"hole", thumb "disk" or similar push-thingy, so long as the "thingy" is attached directly to the blade (versus on the grip and linked up via a gearbox of sorts). It should not have a spring that does ALL the opening (yes, the Kershaw Ken Onion series seems to be OK). And finally, the blade needs to have at least some tendency to stay closed in the pocket or whatever bias a "bias towards closure" or "detent" (discussed in more detail later in this chapter).
As long as it's got all that, and the vast majority (including all eight knives discussed at the bottom of this document) do, it cannot be "declared a gravity knife or switchblade" even if you can snap it open with relish . And you can carry it concealed so long as it's concealed in the FULLY closed position, or open-carry if that's your thing (not recommended for BIG stuff, in case you happen on a town with a funky local ordinance or a really cranky cop).
There's no length limit. Seriously .
THE DETAILS:
The rules on "what is a legal pocketknife versus a switchblade" are contained in Penal Code 653k. In it's entirety (current effective 1/1/2002):
653k: Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.
The really weird part is that 1.9" switchblades are legal. Per Federal law, such a short switchblade is still a switchblade, and cannot be sold across state lines to somebody not a cop or military. So there's a small but thriving business in making 1.9" switch-blades in-state, so that they can be sold without Fed oversight (not involved in interstate commerce). Once you buy one, you can carry it like any other legal folder - in California. Take a shipment of 'em out of state and sell them to ordinary peons, and you're a Federal felon!
Until this year, Penal Code 653k was easier to understand. The requirement that the knife has a "detent or bias towards closure" is the trickiest bit, added effective 1/1/2002.
First, what are those?
A "bias towards closure" means that as you close the knife, very slowly and gently, the blade will be "sucked into the grip" during the last bit of travel.
A "detent" means that when closed, the knife wants to stay that way because there's a ball bearing dimple pressing into a matching tiny socket in the blade, or there's some other mechanism that makes travel "stiffer" for the first short period of blade travel from closed to open.
Presence of either one of these, to ANY degree, means it's not a switchblade even if it's possible to "snap the knife open".
How do I know that?
Last year, a bill known as SB274 passed, which added the "detent or bias towards closure" language. At the Assembly Safety Committee hearing, several pro-self defense folks (myself, Nadja Adolf, Jason Davidoff) were there to complain about the idea that any knife that could be "flicked open" would be banned - as was originally in the statement of legislative intent prepared by the state DA's association.
To demonstrate the "point", I displayed a selection of high quality knives, and explained that simply by nature of their quality, they can be snapped open. Asking permission of the kindly old lady sitting next to me first, I demonstrated by snapping open a Chris Reeves Sebenza worth about $250, and laid it on table as I spoke. I managed to avoid freaking anybody out, and explained that the bill ran the risk of declaring hundreds of thousands of state residents felons.
It's a good thing I was polite to the lady - she turned out to be State Senator Karnette, author of the bill <GRIN>.
After that meeting, the bill continued on track, but Senator Karnette listened, and wrote a new statement of legislative intent! Because it was crafted after the DA association letter, and because it was written by the bill's author, it overrides all other memos on the bill's intent.
Quote:
Parts of Penal Code 12020 cover street carry of knives. It also flat bans some types.
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses...any ballistic knife...any nunchaku...any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken [ed: "throwing star"]...any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag. [Ed. Note: this is the paragraph covering "what you cannot own at all" - some of it is downright weird. Plastic/ceramic knives that can go through a metal detector are also banned somewhere in PC12020.]
...
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
...
(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position. [Ed. note: so if it's a PC653k-legal knife, and it's carried concealed while folded, it's not "readily available" and therefore doesn't meet the "dirk or dagger definition". ONLY "dirks or daggers" need to be open-carry.]
...
25(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.
Most of it is pretty clear. I've added the bold to section 24; note how, in the case of folding knives, legality is "cross-tied" to PC653k.
Part 25(d) applies to "dirks or daggers" that must be open carried. It is VERY confusing in that it is an example of legal open carry, but not the only possible "recipe".
I know of one case in which a guy was at a public event in costume, and was legally open carrying a bunch of cutlery as part of the costume. Without going into details, let me say that the circumstances were appropriate and nobody was threatened in any way. He had a legally-open-carry sword, another belt knife, a belt pouch, and due to the type of jacket worn he ran out of open-carry belt "real estate". So he specially mounted his last double-edge dagger on his ankle, completely visible (not shoved down the boot or up under the pants cuff). For this, he was charged with felony concealed carry of a dirk or dagger.
The DA tried to paint 25(d) as a "waist area requirement" - but as I pointed out to his public defender, it's an example of what's legal but not a strict requirement. As a result, this guy was fully acquitted at a jury trial and has no criminal record to this day.
Nowhere in any of this is there a length limit, or a ban on double-edge. Note the way "dirk or dagger" is completely re-defined ("readily available stabbing implement").
TLDR: No knives that can "snap open" are allowed, a knife needs a device on the blade to not allow quick stab ability.
What are your state's laws, and how do you feel about them. All debate of knife carry laws are on topic.
Of course schools should be no carry. Outside of school is the subject, none of that rubbish.
__________________
Maxpow
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson
“A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.”
— Jeremy Clarkson
1987 Nissan 200SX SE
I beat marijuana addiction. (RoflCopter)
Last edited by NotMaxpowOrDarshSauc : 11-09-2009 at 12:25 AM.
18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.
If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.
(Code 1950, § 18.1-271; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1985, c. 394; 1988, c. 359.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Code of Virginia
A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.
There's a huge list of people who are allowed to carry such weapons in the Code below the second section, too.
That being said, I think they're all dumb. I can understand banning certain knives (non-liner locking knives with over two inch blades) on busses, trains, planes, etc., but for general carry I'm of the belief that the individual should be able to carry whatever he or she wants - be it a fully automatic pistol or a M82 anti-materiel rifle.
__________________
The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein
Un-American activity cannot be prevented or routed out by employing un-American methods; to preserve freedom we must use the tools that freedom provides. - Dwight D. Eisenhower
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. - Plato
There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another: but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school. - Thucydides
There's a huge list of people who are allowed to carry such weapons in the Code below the second section, too.
That being said, I think they're all dumb. I can understand banning certain knives (non-liner locking knives with over two inch blades) on busses, trains, planes, etc., but for general carry I'm of the belief that the individual should be able to carry whatever he or she wants - be it a fully automatic pistol or a M82 anti-materiel rifle.
Criminals will have them anyways, why can't someone have a defense against a life threatening situation where there was no other option. Not to mention the usefulness of such a tool in a difficult situation, a crash when you needed to cut out of a seatbelt, etc. Busses, trains, planes should all be no carry, but should be allowed in checked baggage on aircraft.
Humans are a tool based primate, its natural.
__________________
Maxpow
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson
“A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.”
— Jeremy Clarkson
1987 Nissan 200SX SE
I don't know Nebraska's laws but it don't matter much.
I'm from/grew up in a rural area and am now attending college in a less populated city, and don't ever have second thought about taking a knife with me whether i'm going to classes or anywhere else.
__________________
teamGREEN
PSN: thoenew (MW2)
They told me there was nothing out there, nothing to fear. But the night my parents were murdered I caught a glimpse of something. I've looked for it ever since. I went around the world, searched in all the shadows. And there is something out there in the darkness, something terrifying, something that will not stop until it gets revenge... Me
Thanks for the contributions. I agree with the equal firepower argument. Nice wording.
__________________
Maxpow
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson
“A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.”
— Jeremy Clarkson
1987 Nissan 200SX SE
So knives are the reason for firearm deaths. Very interesting conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
But also, what one of those countries has the minority base America has? Minorities DO contribute greatly to crime statistics.
*Builds Anti-flame protection sphere for thread*
__________________
Maxpow
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson
“A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.”
— Jeremy Clarkson
1987 Nissan 200SX SE
I beat marijuana addiction. (RoflCopter)
Last edited by NotMaxpowOrDarshSauc : 11-09-2009 at 02:29 AM.
No firearms. This is discussion about knives. Please don't continue off-topic. This is pathetic.
__________________
Maxpow
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson
“A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.”
— Jeremy Clarkson
1987 Nissan 200SX SE
but knives are just knives, pocket knives are a survival tool.
a hand gun is not.
because nobody has ever been killed by a pocket knife
You can't villainize one inanimate object that can be used to kill, and defend another that is capable of being used for murder as well by saying "just a tool"
How would a handgun being carried by me, a 22 year old with ZERO criminal record and a very cool temper, be anything more than a survival tool?
__________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
Knives are a tool as well as a utensil, offensive/defensive weapon...
I feel that possession or non criminal use should not be limited... After all, its not the possession that causes death/injury/etc, it is the use of it...
You can only legislate the law abiding citizens so much. Rather than worry about the weapons I haven't used in a crime, why not worry about the criminals?
That being said, I carried 2 knives during all of college, and a firearm was available rather quickly based on classes and such. One knife was 4" and the other was a lock back utility knife.
I carry a knife everywhere. When I'm out on the streets I carry a pocket knife because you never know when you may need it. I'm constantly cutting string, opening packets, using my knife to pry something open or one of the other.
When I'm out hunting I always keep a VERY VERY sharp D2 Ka-Bar for self defense just incase I have to throw my rifle down and go hand and paw or hand and hoof with a certain animal in the woods, because you never know what you may walk up on. You may not always be able to shoot a pissed off mountain lion pouncing on you, so a big giant sharp knife made only for killing is the next best thing you have. I also have a big knife in my gear bag that has a saw for cutting wood, a gut hook and straight edge for skinning or tearing, and an actual knife. I use it for cleaning the animals, plus a hatchet, not to mention plus all the other stuff I keep in my gear bag when hunting you never know when you may have to spend a night out in the woods. Knives have a great use in the world and its stupid to deny someone the use of one. Law abiding citizens carrying knives greatly outnumber the thugs carrying them IMO.
Criminals will have them anyways, why can't someone have a defense against a life threatening situation where there was no other option. Not to mention the usefulness of such a tool in a difficult situation, a crash when you needed to cut out of a seatbelt, etc. Busses, trains, planes should all be no carry, but should be allowed in checked baggage on aircraft.
So you agreed with me. Cool.
__________________
The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein
Un-American activity cannot be prevented or routed out by employing un-American methods; to preserve freedom we must use the tools that freedom provides. - Dwight D. Eisenhower
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. - Plato
There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another: but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school. - Thucydides
Yeah I did. Sometimes I feel like they are legislating society to be like a prison recreation yard, no weapons for fear of shankings or attacks, but it happens frequently.
__________________
Maxpow
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson
“A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.”
— Jeremy Clarkson
1987 Nissan 200SX SE
Criminals will have them anyways, why can't someone have a defense against a life threatening situation where there was no other option. Not to mention the usefulness of such a tool in a difficult situation, a crash when you needed to cut out of a seatbelt, etc. Busses, trains, planes should all be no carry, but should be allowed in checked baggage on aircraft.
Humans are a tool based primate, its natural.
I really see where you're coming from with the whole criminals with have them anyway argument, I even agree to an extent. My only issue lies in its message, essentially saying "Criminals will get them anyway, so let's make them legal." For all intents and purposes if a criminal wanted to illegally buy a machine gun, it would take a bit longer versus the machine gun being able to be purchased legally. To the previous poster who stated people should be able to carry anti-material guns and fully automatic handguns, come on man get real. We don't live in the Wild West. Would you really feel comfortable knowing people had weapons capable of blowing cars up?
__________________
"Originally posted by BMcC13: Seems okay..but since it's Michael Bay, I imagine people will be killed by means of hand grenades, plane crashes, and explosions that have no real explanation. Oh and Freddy will morph into an F16 several times."
For all intents and purposes if a criminal wanted to illegally buy a machine gun, it would take a bit longer versus the machine gun being able to be purchased legally.
1. it seems you have never tried to buy a gun legally before.
2. you CAN buy fully automatic machine guns, today, right now, this very second, and it's all legal.
all you need is the money.
now, tring to buy a grandfathered in fully automatic weapon legally vs. going to your homeboy dope dealer.
i can 100% assure you, i could pick up a fully automatic way before you could buy the legal one.
btw, i have addy of stores that carry some grandfathered in fully auto, with suppressors if you want to find out how long it takes.
Quote:
We don't live in the Wild West. Would you really feel comfortable knowing people had weapons capable of blowing cars up?
exactly, i mean we see the problem with the swiss people being able to own armed forces type weapons as regular citizens right? they blow **** up over there every week and ****.
I really see where you're coming from with the whole criminals with have them anyway argument, I even agree to an extent. My only issue lies in its message, essentially saying "Criminals will get them anyway, so let's make them legal." For all intents and purposes if a criminal wanted to illegally buy a machine gun, it would take a bit longer versus the machine gun being able to be purchased legally. To the previous poster who stated people should be able to carry anti-material guns and fully automatic handguns, come on man get real. We don't live in the Wild West. Would you really feel comfortable knowing people had weapons capable of blowing cars up?
1) What is wrong with, "so let's make them legal?"
It is just the state recognizing property rights
1. it seems you have never tried to buy a gun legally before.
2. you CAN buy fully automatic machine guns, today, right now, this very second, and it's all legal.
all you need is the money.
now, tring to buy a grandfathered in fully automatic weapon legally vs. going to your homeboy dope dealer.
i can 100% assure you, i could pick up a fully automatic way before you could buy the legal one.
btw, i have addy of stores that carry some grandfathered in fully auto, with suppressors if you want to find out how long it takes.
exactly, i mean we see the problem with the swiss people being able to own armed forces type weapons as regular citizens right? they blow **** up over there every week and ****.
What are you talking about. There is a federal ban on automatic weapons.
__________________
"Originally posted by BMcC13: Seems okay..but since it's Michael Bay, I imagine people will be killed by means of hand grenades, plane crashes, and explosions that have no real explanation. Oh and Freddy will morph into an F16 several times."
What are you talking about. There is a federal ban on automatic weapons.
Old weapons are exempt, aka "grandfathered" in since they predate the bans. So I see, you do need a special permit to own FA arms but that could be a state-to-state thing.
apunkjunkie - "Sorry to burst your bubble, but less than 1% of the southern citizens owned slaves and out of that, most were treated fairly well. So no, slavery wasn't a big issue."
. And you can carry it concealed so long as it's concealed in the FULLY closed position, or open-carry if that's your thing (not recommended for BIG stuff, in case you happen on a town with a funky local ordinance or a really cranky cop).
