WASHINGTON – Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.
Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.
"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."
The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.
"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.
Fifth-grader Nakany Camara is of two minds. She likes the four-week summer program at her school, Brookhaven Elementary School in Rockville, Md. Nakany enjoys seeing her friends there and thinks summer school helped boost her grades from two Cs to the honor roll.
But she doesn't want a longer school day. "I would walk straight out the door," she said.
Domonique Toombs felt the same way when she learned she would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade at Boston's Clarence R. Edwards Middle School.
"I was like, `Wow, are you serious?'" she said. "That's three more hours I won't be able to chill with my friends after school."
Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools. Early results are positive. Even reluctant Domonique, who just started ninth grade, feels differently now. "I've learned a lot," she said.
Does Obama want every kid to do these things? School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?
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Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.
"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."
While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.
Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
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Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day.
Researcher Tom Loveless of the Brookings Institution looked at math scores in countries that added math instruction time. Scores rose significantly, especially in countries that added minutes to the day, rather than days to the year.
"Ten minutes sounds trivial to a school day, but don't forget, these math periods in the U.S. average 45 minutes," Loveless said. "Percentage-wise, that's a pretty healthy increase."
In the U.S., there are many examples of gains when time is added to the school day.
Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer. KIPP eighth-grade classes exceed their school district averages on state tests.
In Massachusetts' expanded learning time initiative, early results indicate that kids in some schools do better on state tests than do kids at regular public schools. The extra time, which schools can add as hours or days, is for three things: core academics — kids struggling in English, for example, get an extra English class; more time for teachers; and enrichment time for kids.
Regular public schools are adding time, too, though it is optional and not usually part of the regular school day. Their calendar is pretty much set in stone. Most states set the minimum number of school days at 180 days, though a few require 175 to 179 days.
Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.
Many schools are going beyond the traditional summer school model, in which schools give remedial help to kids who flunked or fell behind.
Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.
That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.
Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.
"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.
Extra time is not cheap. The Massachusetts program costs an extra $1,300 per student, or 12 percent to 15 percent more than regular per-student spending, said Jennifer Davis, a founder of the program. It received more than $17.5 million from the state Legislature last year.
The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days.
Aside from improving academic performance, Education Secretary Duncan has a vision of schools as the heart of the community. Duncan, who was Chicago's schools chief, grew up studying alongside poor kids on the city's South Side as part of the tutoring program his mother still runs.
"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."
This obviously isn't the best thing to do, but I find it hard to believe that it won't help.
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"Originally posted by Talfuchre: Dude I am bringing my Blackberry so that I can IMMEDIATELY talk trash on PBN.
This wouldn't even be needed if teachers were more efficient with their use of time.
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Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime. Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism. MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS9652: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th. Tha-Italian-Stallion: America is the same country who made a should be slave it's leader.... why the **** would I have any pride in that? Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
This wouldn't even be needed if teachers were more efficient with their use of time.
which would happen if they were allowed to actually teach instead of having kids memorize test answers
(which would happen something something unions something something)
(which wouldn't be needed if something something fair pay collective bargaining something something)
(which is an issue something something unions served purpose now just power hungry something something)
(something something on topic? something something)
(something something topic obvious already discussed now new topic something something)
now that I've discussed pretty much the whole topic in this one post, could we just lock this and move on?
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There once was an X from place B,
That satisfied predicate P,
He or she did thing A,
In an adjective way,
Resulting in circumstance C.
Most teachers I've encountered during public school choose not to teach during their allotted time. That is mainly because the curriculum given to them by the state is so watered down that they don't need their students learning during class. Making students go to school during summer is not fixing the problem at hand, it's trying to make it go away by spending more money.
You'd be lucky to learn an hours worth of material for one class during a five day week.
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Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime. Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism. MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS9652: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th. Tha-Italian-Stallion: America is the same country who made a should be slave it's leader.... why the **** would I have any pride in that? Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
Most teachers I've encountered during public school
Just stating my personal experiences.
Usually when you go to math class you go to learn math, not how your school's golf team is going to be better than last years.
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Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime. Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism. MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS9652: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th. Tha-Italian-Stallion: America is the same country who made a should be slave it's leader.... why the **** would I have any pride in that? Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
More of anything won't fix the problem. The problem is systemic. Public schools are just becoming abject failures. School districts all across the country are moving towards privatizing the entire district. The best example is the second-largest district in the country, the Los Angeles county school system. Hundreds of schools are 'up for sale', to the highest bidder, to take over the functions. I remember reading somewhere that there's a 5% literacy rate in mathematics in that school district. It's truly abysmal. I've also read about privatization in New Orleans, Michigan, and a few other states whose names escape me at the moment.
But yes, this is a good step in the right direction, longer school years, with less vacation times will hopefully push kids into charter and private schools. Public opinion has charter/private schools supported by over two-thirds of Americans. Now is the perfect time for an education renaissance.
Hmm... extend the school day? It is already nearly 8 hours. I can understand extending it to 9 hours a day (1 hour for lunch), but anything past that is overkill for a child. Hell, I can't give ADULTS over 8 instructional hours a day, and expect them to retain.
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“The several states composing the United States of America are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government” - Thomas Jefferson
"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein
Closed-bolt, because I can.
Repetition and Ridicule, the biggest tools of the Liberal.
Number one the article is academically dishonest for one simple reason. In america we educate EVERYONE! Most other countries cherry pick their brightest for these test results and many do not even educate the mass populous.
A longer school day/year is necessary since the majority of parents have made it clear they will not support education at home. In the past our parents supplement our public education at home. When you lose that you can't expect academic performance to remain high. The only answer is to extend school day/year. The problem is everyone wants it (except the kids maybe lol) but no one wants to pay for it.
Oh and you know how the politicians like to say we are doing this and this to boost science in public school. Thats complete BS in most schools due to our crazy schedules we can only provide 30 min of instruction every other day in Social Studies and Science. Science should be given a dedicated hour of instruction every single day.
I have been a long time advocate of 45 days in school and then 5-10 days off. This allows kids that need the extra help whether it be BSI or special education are quickly identified and treated. Under our current school regs it takes about a full year to get a kid help. Which I would like to point out this is always blamed on the teacher when its the administration who put all of the protocol, paperwork, and regs in the way of getting the kid help. So think about it kid is diagnosed with a learning disability in 2nd grade but they won't get assigned any assistance until 3rd grade. So now throughout 2nd grade the kid feels like a complete loser when it isn't their fault one iota. Now the teacher can make modifications for some students but when you have budget cuts and now have 30+ students in each class it severly limits what the teacher can do.
It doesn't matter since the administration claims education is a priorty yet all I have seen are education cuts. If you want to talk crazies look at some of the NJ governor candidates some of them are calling for more administrators and less teachers. Apparently they think having over 30 kids in one class is good lol.
But yes, this is a good step in the right direction, longer school years, with less vacation times will hopefully push kids into charter and private schools.
Wouldn't longer school years cost states move money thus worsening your spending argument (which is completely valid)?
All private schools in my county are religious institutions so I don't see that as being a viable alternative.
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Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime. Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism. MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS9652: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th. Tha-Italian-Stallion: America is the same country who made a should be slave it's leader.... why the **** would I have any pride in that? Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
Hmm... extend the school day? It is already nearly 8 hours. I can understand extending it to 9 hours a day (1 hour for lunch), but anything past that is overkill for a child. Hell, I can't give ADULTS over 8 instructional hours a day, and expect them to retain.
most schools around here are 8:30-3:00 or 6.5 hrs and that includes 20 min recess and 30min lunch.
This wouldn't even be needed if teachers were more efficient with their use of time.
nope...it's needed
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"Originally posted by §Galactus§You should sig me again. That way, when everyone looks at your signature, they would be like "Holy **** that dude is so awesome he got sigged twice" It would be espically awesome if you sigged this post. So that people who read your sig will be confused as well as amazed
Wouldn't longer school years cost states move money thus worsening your spending argument (which is completely valid)?
Yea, definitely. If schools were open an hour longer, PLUS on the weekends, and nights, it makes perfect sense. When teachers stay overtime past operation hours, they get paid overtime. Think of all the teachers and administrators that would have to be paid overtime if schools were opened way past closing, and on the weekends.
This entire idea isn't that great. I think we need a voucher program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36
All private schools in my county are religious institutions so I don't see that as being a viable alternative.
When looking at public education why not look at the schools that work. We have plenty of highly successful public schools here in NJ. Why not send investigators to all the successful schools around the nation and then completely revamp the education system.
Heck we scored the highest on the NAEP in writing and were one of the highest in Math. Lower scoring states should be looking at what other successful states are doing right and implement those strategies not sell off their schools.
The top scores are from MD, NJ,TX, and MA. I think CA scored well too but can't remember for sure off the top of my head.
When looking at public education why not look at the schools that work. We have plenty of highly successful public schools here in NJ. Why not send investigators to all the successful schools around the nation and then completely revamp the education system.
Heck we scored the highest on the NAEP in writing and were one of the highest in Math. Lower scoring states should be looking at what other successful states are doing right and implement those strategies not sell off their schools.
The top scores are from MD, NJ,TX, and MA. I think CA scored well too but can't remember for sure off the top of my head.
Yea, definitely. If schools were open an hour longer, PLUS on the weekends, and nights, it makes perfect sense. When teachers stay overtime past operation hours, they get paid overtime. Think of all the teachers and administrators that would have to be paid overtime if schools were opened way past closing, and on the weekends.
This entire idea isn't that great. I think we need a voucher program.
Surely there's something around you, no?
Teachers do not get paid overtime lol We are salary. Sometimes we get paid workshops but other than that its straight salary.
Oh come on, I've had teachers tell me they get paid for after-school activities. You're saying you get paid a straight salary, and you get nothing for staying after school to help students review and catch-up, like my teachers did?
Yea, definitely. If schools were open an hour longer, PLUS on the weekends, and nights, it makes perfect sense. When teachers stay overtime past operation hours, they get paid overtime. Think of all the teachers and administrators that would have to be paid overtime if schools were opened way past closing, and on the weekends.
This entire idea isn't that great. I think we need a voucher program.
Something definitely needs to be done. I think curricula (spell checker FTW) need to be revamped to match those of other nations. It seems the moment kids start to have trouble in school we just make it easier for them when in fact we need to make it more difficult. I never applied myself in school because we were never pushed. It's that laissez-faire attitude teachers have that are making our kids less intelligent. I stated this a few months ago, from personal experience the tenured teachers are bad because they are going to get a paycheck whether or not their students pass the course, they have no incentive to better their students. Graduate students from universities are what you want most of the time.
Montessori School of Greater Lafayette (I don't think it is religious but it goes from babies to third grade, basically a glorified day care)
Pleasantview Christian School
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Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime. Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism. MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS9652: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th. Tha-Italian-Stallion: America is the same country who made a should be slave it's leader.... why the **** would I have any pride in that? Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
