Drug-Friendly Netherlands to Close 8 Prisons -- Not Enough Crime
For years prohibitionists, including our own Drug Enforcement Administration, have claimed — falsely — that the tolerant marijuana policies of the Netherlands have made that nation a nest of crime and drug abuse. They may have trouble wrapping their little brains around this:
The Dutch government is getting ready to close eight prisons because they don’t have enough criminals to fill them. Officials attribute the shortage of prisoners to a declining crime rate.
Just for fun, let’s compare the Netherlands to California. With a population of 16.6 million, the Dutch prison population is about 12,000. With its population of 36.7 million, California should have a bit more than double the Dutch prison population. California’s actual prison population is 171,000.
So, whose drug policies are keeping the streets safer?
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Last edited by stressfire II : 09-11-2009 at 12:32 PM.
Drug-Friendly Netherlands to Close 8 Prisons -- Not Enough Crime
For years prohibitionists, including our own Drug Enforcement Administration, have claimed — falsely — that the tolerant marijuana policies of the Netherlands have made that nation a nest of crime and drug abuse. They may have trouble wrapping their little brains around this:
The Dutch government is getting ready to close eight prisons because they don’t have enough criminals to fill them. Officials attribute the shortage of prisoners to a declining crime rate.
Just for fun, let’s compare the Netherlands to California. With a population of 16.6 million, the Dutch prison population is about 12,000. With its population of 36.7 million, California should have a bit more than double the Dutch prison population. California’s actual prison population is 171,000.
So, whose drug policies are keeping the streets safer?
the netherlands is also a racial and socio-economically homogeneous old europe country, unlike california. but nice red herring.
but in any event, I seem to support a good chunk of what that government does. maybe I'll move to amsterdam, do I have to speak dutch?
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There once was an X from place B,
That satisfied predicate P,
He or she did thing A,
In an adjective way,
Resulting in circumstance C.
the netherlands is also a racial and socio-economically homogeneous old europe country, unlike california. but nice red herring.
but in any event, I seem to support a good chunk of what that government does. maybe I'll move to amsterdam, do I have to speak dutch?
I don't understand what you mean about the "racial and socio-economically homogeneous" aspect. Can you dumb it down for me?
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He chose to use his name, Barack, for a reason. To identify, not with America -- you don't take the name Barack to identify with America. You take the name Barack to identify with what? Your heritage? The heritage, maybe, of your father in Kenya, who is a radical? Really? Searching for something to give him any kind of meaning, just as he was searching later in life for religion. - Glenn Beck
I don't understand what you mean about the "racial and socio-economically homogeneous" aspect. Can you dumb it down for me?
they all middle class white peoples in them there dutchlands.
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There once was an X from place B,
That satisfied predicate P,
He or she did thing A,
In an adjective way,
Resulting in circumstance C.
the netherlands is also a racial and socio-economically homogeneous old europe country, unlike california. but nice red herring.
but in any event, I seem to support a good chunk of what that government does. maybe I'll move to amsterdam, do I have to speak dutch?
Meh. too damn expensive and touristy. And no, everyone knows english.
and they're not all middle class. It's expensive to buy a home and cost of living is high.
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Last edited by Frank112916 : 09-11-2009 at 12:46 PM.
Ah OK. I really don't think class and color matter though in this argument.
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Meh. too damn expensive and touristy. And no, everyone knows english.
and they're not all middle class. It's expensive to buy a home and cost of living is high.
ahh, so upper class!
Quote:
Originally Posted by stressfire II
Ah OK. I really don't think class and color matter though in this argument.
rich people don't commit crimes that send you to prison as often as poor people. That's a fact.
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There once was an X from place B,
That satisfied predicate P,
He or she did thing A,
In an adjective way,
Resulting in circumstance C.
rich people don't commit crimes that send you to prison as often as poor people. That's a fact.
What? They commit crimes. They just don't go to prison because they can afford awesome legal representation most of the time.
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He chose to use his name, Barack, for a reason. To identify, not with America -- you don't take the name Barack to identify with America. You take the name Barack to identify with what? Your heritage? The heritage, maybe, of your father in Kenya, who is a radical? Really? Searching for something to give him any kind of meaning, just as he was searching later in life for religion. - Glenn Beck
I think the very low crime rate comes from a very different culture. The Netherlands are nothing like America, for one there is no organized crime their, and yes I am sure that is partly to do with the legalized drugs. Really though it is apples to oranges.
Do I think legalisation would cut down of crime, yes. Do I think it would bring it down to those levels, no.
Anyways weed is just a small part of it, anyone trafficking weed would just move to coke or something else so it would all have to be legalized, not to say i would be against that.
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I think the very low crime rate comes from a very different culture. The Netherlands are nothing like America, for one there is no organized crime their, and yes I am sure that is partly to do with the legalized drugs. Really though it is apples to oranges.
Do I think legalisation would cut down of crime, yes. Do I think it would bring it down to those levels, no.
Anyways weed is just a small part of it, anyone trafficking weed would just move to coke or something else so it would all have to be legalized, not to say i would be against that.
I don't know where you get your information. There is absolutely organized crime in the netherlands.
A lot of it may have to do with the fact that the netherlands is overall more ethnically and economically homogenous than America, but at least in the cities there are a lot of immigrants straight from Africa and the Middle East.
The drug policy has to figure in a lot. Its not just that a tourist can go into a coffeeshop and buy soft drugs, its probably even more about that the addicts are given free heroin from the government, and programs like that.
An enormous portion of the violent crime in America is related to the drug trade. Put the drug dealers out of business because they can't compete with free, and an honest living starts to look better to them in comparison.
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I don't understand these arguments. Are you guys saying because the Netherlands has little to no minorities, that's the reason why they have little crime?
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He chose to use his name, Barack, for a reason. To identify, not with America -- you don't take the name Barack to identify with America. You take the name Barack to identify with what? Your heritage? The heritage, maybe, of your father in Kenya, who is a radical? Really? Searching for something to give him any kind of meaning, just as he was searching later in life for religion. - Glenn Beck
I don't understand these arguments. Are you guys saying because the Netherlands has little to no minorities, that's the reason why they have little crime?
Maybe more about the economic inequality and these types of ethnic groups are more likely to be recent immigrants, poorly educated, and poor.
I don't mean to be racist, but in the US, blacks commit murders at 7 times the rate of whites (wikipedia: Crime in the United States)
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University of Wisconsin-Madison 2010
Correlation=/=cause and effect, bucko.
but it makes you think
It's basic animal nature to hang with what looks and acts like you. IE race and ethnicity. I haven't done the numbers, but I'm sure that the distribution of race and ethnicity in a country has a good correlation with the crime rate.
Combine that with what tuna noted about immigrants typically being minorities and poor, crime is going to be more rampant with minorities and immigrants. Hello, United States.
You're up the wrong tree with the whole ethnicity theory. There is zero evidence to suggest that those who originate from Africa are any more prone to commit crime compared to other groups.
The poverty rate in the Netherlands is 4.7 percent of families. This gives the nation one of the lowest poverty rates in Europe, second only to nations such as Sweden, and well ahead of countries such as the United Kingdom, Germany, France, and the United States. However, the main reason for this low rate is generous social payments. If government aid is excluded, the poverty rate in the Netherlands rises to 18.9 percent. The highest rates of poverty are among individuals, but single-parent households account for almost 75 percent of all poor families.
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I wasn't trying to make it an ethnic thing, except no one is crying racism in the netherlands is all.
it's about socio-economics. However, as it stands, when it comes to statistics, if the people you most closely relate to happen to be currently living in poverty off government welfare checks, dealing drugs, and robbing liquor stores, you will most likely end up living in poverty off government welfare checks, dealing drugs, and robbing liquor stores. It just has to do with the culture that has risen as it is, and then new people being introduced into that culture.
Where I grew up "robbing Korean liquor stores" was not a viable occupatiuon. Where some people were born or move to, it is.
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There once was an X from place B,
That satisfied predicate P,
He or she did thing A,
In an adjective way,
Resulting in circumstance C.
The poverty rate in the Netherlands is 4.7 percent of families. This gives the nation one of the lowest poverty rates in Europe, second only to nations such as Sweden, and well ahead of countries such as the United Kingdom, Germany, France, and the United States. However, the main reason for this low rate is generous social payments. If government aid is excluded, the poverty rate in the Netherlands rises to 18.9 percent. The highest rates of poverty are among individuals, but single-parent households account for almost 75 percent of all poor families.
FluffyMumkin's source:
Hmm... I'm no rocket scientist but it seems like the 80.7% Dutch ethnic background and the 18.9% poverty rate fit suspiciously well together. Obviously there poor ethnic dutch people and wealthy ethnic minorities... but to me that suggests an idea of the socio-economic situation. The minorities are much more often poor.
Also interesting to note... the Netherlands actually has higher income inequality (gini coefficient) than the EU average.
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I don't understand these arguments. Are you guys saying because the Netherlands has little to no minorities, that's the reason why they have little crime?
Pretty much. Look at Japan as another example. 98% Japanese, not much crime there.
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