[chopper]

Originally posted by magster2749
If you watched Dynasty play cup, youd know they were doing just the same thing. They start to rip, and their guns would get an extra 10 shots in real fast after they stopped shooting.

I wouldnt be suprised at all if the Dynasty player knew his gun wasnt fully legal. Now, what makes the rules not fair IMO, is that this DQd rule usually only hits those who arnt meaning to cheat. The people who know how to get away with it continue to play, but the teams not knowing their guns are not legal are getting DQd. By all means I think teams should have acess to the robot.

We were one that thought we were legal that is for sure.

[FlipFlops]

chopper, Dave Zinkham and I ran one of your team's actual 4.0 boards across the robot while I was in Las Vegas. Untouched from your team it was set on debounce 1 and reproduced the results exactly as were experienced in Denver. Simply bumping it to debounce 2 was all that was required to make it legal.

Every marker and trigger setup is different. Unfortunately AMB does tend to hide bounce, but it's easy to tell if you don't have your debounce setting high enough by shooting the gun fast with a single finger and listening for it to take off as it starts to bounce.

Say what you want, but the Redz Hurricanes gun had a ramping (cheater) chip, whereas mine were simply standard boards that were incorrectly set up.

[magster2749]

Flops, eitehr way your stuff is incredible, it just sucks because people assume otherwise because of all the recent events

[chopper]

That board was not the way we had it in Denver! You are misinformed my man. A that board had been sold to someone else and B Doug could have turned it back down when we got home so don't even start talking smack that it was set on Dbounce one when we played with it in Denver. Dave saw the damn thing flash 7 times, so did 5 other people standing there.

[665AlmostEvil]

Originally posted by FlipFlops
chopper, Dave Zinkham and I ran one of your team's actual 4.0 boards across the robot while I was in Las Vegas. Untouched from your team it was set on debounce 1 and reproduced the results exactly as were experienced in Denver.

how did you get a board from our team if we sold them right after denver? was it from one of the people that bought one from the team? If thats the case, do you think there is ANY chance that the person who bought it changed the settings? hmm.....

[Big P]

Originally posted by tji


BIG P - If the responsibility for safety is TOTALLY on the player, then why does the "org" chrono teams before the game? It's kind of a double standand.

All I'm saying is, make the robot available to the players so everything is out in the open. $1500 is a lot of money to lose for what could be (although not in the case of entourage) a honest mistake.

I understand that point as well. Not really sure how to answer it. I guess I would compare it to the way Im sure other pro sports events checks in the equipment that will be used. Like baseball. Dont they check equipment? I can almost see this turning to an event that you have to turn your marker in and only get it when you play. While it would be a huge problem to deal with, its about the only fair way to keep the settings as tested.

[Dave]

665 guys;

Will specifically said that differnt guns, with different trigger set ups will cause a marker to bounce at different settings, maybe your gun bounced like crazy at DB7, I don't think anybody's arguing that, but it's on you to set your board to work with your marker, not anybody else, there is only one person you can blame; yourself, sorry.

dave

[Simon Woodstock]

Originally posted by RokindaDmfizzle
this is kinda off topic but dose any one think todds (from dynasty) gun was bouncing or ramping? i think it was but dose any one else?

that gun was ramping crazy.

the point is, people know that their guns are ramping. before the game, the ref checks the guns and tries to make them bounce/ramp when they chrono it. you can go on to the field w/ a hot or bouncing gun. the chrono reff will say "its your risk." that has nothing to do w/ the bounce machine. furthermore. people have shot their gun before. reffs don't check everybodies gun, only if the gun looks like it is ramping.

the reason there is a dq for ramping, not cheating is because it can be assumed that the gun was ramping the entire tourney and that needs to be compensated for. if somebody wipes, it just happens in that one case and is penalized very harshly

[magster2749]

Yal really need to stop with the whole 'ramping'. It wasnt ramping... Anyone could get there gun to do this with the same board... he just had it set up where it bounced like mad, AFTER the first shot, because of AMB.

[Simon Woodstock]

on the topic of wiping, i think the rule should be amended. in a pivotal game, a player on my team got shot in the shoulder (a spot he couldnt see) he called a paintcheck on himself and was instructed to continue playing. he moved up to the 50 and wrapped the bunker to shoot to the back corner of the field, in the process, the hit on his shoulder rubbed off on the bunker b/c he was wrapping properly. while he was wrapping, a player on the opposite team called a paintcheck. the reff pull a 3 for 1 for wiping and we lost the game that we originally had a commanding lead on.

the 2 main problems with this were:
1. my team mate was unaware of the hit
2. the reff had never identified or seen the hit, only had suspicion to call a hit

[Simon Woodstock]

so I believe the hit must be addressed by the reff, or a concious attempt be made to wipe the hit for it to be a 3 for 1.
or perhaps a 2 for 1 or 1 for 1 should be implemented for unintentional or questionable wiping.

[Simon Woodstock]

i saw people w/ bouncing guns, and i saw reffs check the gun and say "its just bounce" and return the gun

[Simon Woodstock]

i personally think one shot one pull should be the rule. but nppl only seems to care about electronic bounce and ramping. they dont care about mechanical bounce

[magster2749]

You really have no idea what you're talking about..

[pinch&mug]

Originally posted by magster2749
You really have no idea what you're talking about..

That's like A.D.D. j/k Woodstock!

[slapshot54]

Originally posted by Simon Woodstock
i saw people w/ bouncing guns, and i saw reffs check the gun and say "its just bounce" and return the gun

it probably wasnt adding 10 bps like johnny's gun was.

I really dont think that NPPL would care if they put the gun on the robot and it bounced a little. Thats understandable that there is no way to tell if its set up correctly or not if you cant use the robot. In this case 10 bps were added which is clearly something you can tell by using your eyes and ears. It was blatently cheating and was penalized as such. Nice job NPPL!

[Pusher77]

Question on "Bounce"
Doesnt Bounce occur everytime a switch is connnected?? By this is mean when a switch is connected and dissconnected doesnt it send out a thousand signals in the fraction of a sec?? So the debounce setting was made to eliminate that to keep boards from misreading these signals and thinking they were actually trigger pulls??

OR is the bounce everyone is talking about mechanical cuase i think there are two diffrent kinds here and people are mistaking one for the other and visa versa

[FlipFlops]

665:

The point isn't that the board came set at debounce 1, it's that Dave Zinkham and I were able to reproduce the results EXACTLY like what happened in Denver, and bumping up the debounce a single setting made it perfectly legal.

[The Specialist: GC]

will is a cool guy with awesome products....my teammate (will's former teammate) uses his boards and has never had a problem with his DM4. I used on of the dynasty boards at cup and i didn't have a problem with the board set on DB3.

[raehl]

FlipFlops:

How about this?

Any board with a debounce setting is a cheater board.

Why not just only sell boards with a "debounce" period of 30 ms? Why have it adjustable to less than 30 MS at all?

[chopper]

We have taken full responsibility. We have never once argued that. We have always stated the fact that we knew the gun was fast and never once said that we got raped. We broke the rules no doubt about it.