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Old 11-14-2004, 06:11 PM #43
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i too had a NYX on Db1 that was legal from now til lthe cows came home. its all about trigger setup.

dont say db1 is a cheater mode...... one gun on db1 will be fine. anotehr will run away till the hopper is empty....

IT DEPENDS ON EACH GUN SETUP.....

obviously this guns debouce was set too low....but its not a cheater mode.

Remember.....debouce was invented to ELIMINATE bouce..not make it.....

its the persons fault for running the debouce too low....NOT THE GUNS fault....
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Old 11-14-2004, 06:54 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by *cpt*seawolf
Remember.....debouce was invented to ELIMINATE bouce..not make it.....
I disagree, there are many safe electronic coding systems to avoid bounce completely and still keep up with genuine fingers.

Debounce was made for one reason, to allow you to add shots 'legally' .
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Old 11-14-2004, 07:06 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by manike
I disagree, there are many safe electronic coding systems to avoid bounce completely and still keep up with genuine fingers.
Isn't this what all debounce softwares do? Compensate for switch bounce, correct? No two switches close with the exact same reliability, so any debounce software (that will satisfy consumers today) must be flexible to find the balance between suppressing switch bounce during closing and not suppressing valid trigger pulls.

When did 'debounce' become the name of switch filtering software that adds shots?

Last edited by TreyV : 11-14-2004 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 11-14-2004, 07:07 PM #46
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Since that's what it was used to do... blame WAS.
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Old 11-14-2004, 07:14 PM #47
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That's the easy way out of this arguement, and you know it.
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Old 11-14-2004, 07:44 PM #48
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It's the truth. No need to face it if you don't want to.
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Old 11-14-2004, 09:14 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by TreyV
Isn't this what all debounce softwares do? Compensate for switch bounce, correct? No two switches close with the exact same reliability, so any debounce software (that will satisfy consumers today) must be flexible to find the balance between suppressing switch bounce during closing and not suppressing valid trigger pulls.

When did 'debounce' become the name of switch filtering software that adds shots?
The amount of time over which those extra switch bounces occur is on the order of a few milliseconds (or less) - and that ASSUMES you have a mechanical switch trigger. The amount of time between actual trigger pulls of someone actually pulling 20 balls per second is 50 milliseconds. There is absolutely no reason for a "Setting" to determine the difference between 10 milliseconds and 50 milliseconds.

It is true that any two switches probably will not have the same characteristics - but it's also true that the keyboard you're typing with now does not have a debounce setting. Why? Because there's no way you can hit a button fast enough that your keyboard can't tell the difference between actual presses and switch bounce, no matter which of the 110 switches on your keyboard you are using.

Which brings me back to my original point: DB1 is a cheater setting. It may not make all guns cheeater guns, but there's no reason to set your gun at DB1 other than to cheat - it will function just as well (at firing one shot every time you pull the trigger) if you set your debounce to 30 milliseconds or so.

Setting it to less than 30 milliseconds will only either get you extra switch or t****** bounce shots - you're not pulling the trigger that fast.



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Old 11-14-2004, 10:41 PM #50
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this is kinda off topic but dose any one think todds (from dynasty) gun was bouncing or ramping? i think it was but dose any one else?
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Old 11-14-2004, 11:06 PM #51
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Re: Re: Punishment=Crime

Quote:
Originally posted by pinch&mug
Wiping, the ultimate "cheat", is a 3 for 1 and not a DQ
yea, but wiping doesn't have to do with nppl and their insurance, its completely a safety matter with bounce, ramping, its not like bounce and ramping makes you play better...

if they alooud full auto or crazy bounce what happens when a player slides and his sensitive trigger sets off his bounce and shoots 15 balls.. he could be shooting his own players, or himself pointblank several times... theirs a crap load of bad situations you could be in if you had excessive bounce and what not.. and from my understanding i thought ramping was wen not only its adding additional shots, but the fps is increasing, making the gun shoot hotter as it ramps.

And lastely, why the hell would nppl let people use the bot to check their guns before hand, that just gives them 1000 more reasons to be concerned, people would easily figure out ways to get around the machine, theirs no reason for you to "test" it... u no wether your guns bouncing or not, and if u bought a ****ing cheater board then u damn straight no it is ramping or bouncing... , and if ur still not shure... SHOOT PAINT THROUGHT IT! they have a players chrono whenever ud like to walk in......

bottom line, every1 just wants to get away with it.... were just lucky theirs people smarter then that out their (nppl) keeping it safe, fun and fair...
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Old 11-15-2004, 08:55 AM #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by raehl
...It's pretty simple, one shot, one pull. The only thing the robot There have been, what, less than 10 DQ's this season? They're not DQing people for trigger bounce. If they were, they'd be DQing half the teams. People who are getting DQ'd have boards or guns that add shots. It may suck if you go and buy "the latest fastest board" online and it add shots and the people you bought it from were shady about spelling that out, but then again...
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Last edited by Hubb : 11-15-2004 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 11-15-2004, 10:07 AM #53
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Who Makes the Dynasty Shocker Board?
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Old 11-15-2004, 10:09 AM #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by chopper
Who Makes the Dynasty Shocker Board?
Tadao. Are you getting at what I think youre getting at(I know you guys got DQ'd for a Tadao board also)?
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Old 11-15-2004, 10:32 AM #55
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4 teams dq'd this year for gun problems.

665-Tadao Matrix set on Dbounce 7 (I was corrected by my teamate).
Entourage-Tadao Shocker
Chop Shop-Angel Fly set on three round burst by mistake
Redz Hurricanes-NYX Dm4 with who knows board

Tadao accounts for atleast half of all the people kicked out.

Draw your own conclussion's but the fact remains that Dave (who runs the robot) said that a dbounce of 4 or higher is "less" likely to get you in trouble with the Tadao boards, but he found boards that continue to bounce at a higher setting.

There are a ton of manufactures out there. One has been Dq'd more then once. That is my .02 cents and you can flame me and say what ever you want, but the fact that Ollie wouldn't give them his Tadao boarded gun without turning it off first makes ya wonder. Our gun that got us bounced worked fine when you turned it off and then on, but after getting on it, it Bounced.

Last edited by chopper : 11-15-2004 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 11-15-2004, 10:56 AM #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hubb
Hey didn't see I you at the event this weekend?
Not unless I have a stunt double.

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Old 11-15-2004, 01:14 PM #57
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but you cant blme the board company all together.... yea maybe they do help at low settings to add shots, but its also the user who sets up his/her trigger pull length and sensitivity. the combination of both is the culprate... i know at nppl denver a ref on the jt field looked at my gun, shot it a few times and appologized for suspecting my gun of ramping ... fly 4 mode 1 tr 1 3.5 software
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:28 PM #58
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I know in our instance our dbounce and trigger were unable to bounce by a human, but the robot said no way. It was a tadao set at dbounce 7.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:27 PM #59
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That's the bad thing about AMB. Just because it doesnt bounce on the first shot, doesnt mean it isnt at high rates of fire. People just assume their guns are fine because no first shot bounce, but in reality they arnt.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:28 PM #60
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So out of curiousity, why is letting players use the robot before hand a bad thing? If a gun is set up to pass the robot, it will be fine on the field. This example is not entirely accurate, but if in any auto racing body, they require that the cars weigh a certain weight, and they weigh each car before and after a race, then does it not stand to reason that teams that own a car should have access to the same technology for weighing them in as the officials do?

No 2 guns out there are the same. So a DB1 for DM4 might work just fine, but another DM4, with identical tank and hopper, might need to run at DB4. So why is it wrong to let players have their guns checked on the robot before playing, so they can get their settings correct and legal, just like the chrono station?

Cheater boards are out there, and are going to be out there. I am not advocating their use, or people using the robot for how to get away with stuff, but as to what was witnessed with Entourage, I am sure that they would have perferred to kno wthat DB1 was not legal in that gun and changed it so that they could play than to get DQed like they did.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:37 PM #61
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I agree with the robot thing.

Cheater boards are out there and there are people making huge money off of them, so they are not going anywere. The only way I see them to elimanate them in a tourney is give you a board for your gun or test your gun and then some how seal it so that it can not be tampered with. That way if the "seal" is gone you either get a new one or be DQ'd.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:39 PM #62
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Hey blautsauger, I recommended that when the denver thread was still up...hoping NPPL would listen and let people start using the robot ahead of time so there is NO EXCUSE when someone gets caught. If they made the robot available to all teams before games, everyone could check to make sure they are legal.

And chopper, I have a nice sweaty ballsack that I want to rub all over your face. its all about the swampnuts baby!
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:41 PM #63
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If you watched Dynasty play cup, youd know they were doing just the same thing. They start to rip, and their guns would get an extra 10 shots in real fast after they stopped shooting.

I wouldnt be suprised at all if the Dynasty player knew his gun wasnt fully legal. Now, what makes the rules not fair IMO, is that this DQd rule usually only hits those who arnt meaning to cheat. The people who know how to get away with it continue to play, but the teams not knowing their guns are not legal are getting DQd. By all means I think teams should have acess to the robot.
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