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Old 08-11-2014, 07:04 PM #211
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It was CEP running the funding thing.

I think that the champ / challenger thing has certainly added a level of excitement to the tournament, but it appears to be a bad fix for a big problem.

The problem is that the skill in professional paintball is concentrated to only a handful of teams. Sure, this format helps the younger teams get more experience and increase their skill - but I personally don't think that's the issue.

There is such a large gap in skill because there is a large gap in budgets. The game needs to be restructured so that it doesn't cost a small fortune to compete. The "All-Star" teams will always have an edge simply because they have more money. More money, more paint, better competition, more practice, less stress on the players, etc.

Less focus on the RoF and more focus on paint consumption.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:06 PM #212
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anyone ever just think that maybe Dynasty is getting old ? it happens..
not when they just won the 2013 season title, and an event 3 months ago....no. age has nothing to do with it. EVERY team goes through their slumps.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:07 PM #213
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I don't know how you could restructure the costs. PSP is a business, they need to make money. It's not like professional sports where you can use salary caps. Cost is just the nature of the beast. Paintball is expensive, no way around it.

Edit: However, it does seem like the layouts this season have been geared towards high volume paint usage. Maybe just coincidence, maybe not.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:15 PM #214
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Originally Posted by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa View Post
....Less focus on the RoF and more focus on paint consumption.
I still advocate limited paint format. A team can bring on the field a certain number of pods (a standardized pod size) with empty loaders. They can distribute those pods as they see fit (back gets more, front gets less?).
Even if I were pro skilled I couldn't afford to shoot 11 pods a point like Lang did a few events back (IIRC...)


That's all besides the point. I think the pro/relagation keeps the hot teams playing other hot teams.

To be honest i think people give WC too much weight/apparent value. As if winning world cup means anything more than winning event 1/2/3/4; Its just another event in the series. Who cares if Dynasty plays challengers for WC? If they really are world class team they will win and earn the series championship. None of this "win world cup" BS.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:45 PM #215
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What the psp needs to do is have more stand-up bunkers, add more pins as lane blockers, and block out the center opening in the 50 for more fluid movement and allow formats to be front player friendly allowing for aggressive moves to be made and more cross field shots/gun battles to occur.

Fast counter punch paintball is key to creating more fast field layouts, create more people running than shooting and limiting paint will not be a needed factor.

Look at MAO and WCO and see how little movement was made off the break in regards to players making the snake corner, god bunker (snake insert), and S1 and the same on D-side.

More teams were stacking 2-3 players on both the center can and stand-up aztec majority of the points and maybe 1 player in the d-side small-cake bunker.

Coming from a spectator point of view, seeing layouts that support snake highway, center, d-side highway bunker/run-through moves and off the break moves past the 40 to the fifty are the most exciting.

Allow players who are fast movement wise to dictate the tempo of the game.

Make x-ball the aggressor friendly format.

Remove race-to format and allow for majors to be 1:00 min penalty, only the penalized player to be pulled, an extra point for the other team, and not stop the clock until a concede/flag hang, official time out, emergency, or all players dead to stop the clock.

That means 4 points can be made during a period of play for only one point being 3 players max can be in the penalty box.

Get rid of mini-races and small cakes except on snake side and blocking out the center 50 hole. They shouldn't be any where else on the field.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:01 PM #216
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.
While that may or may not be more exciting to watch, wouldn't it alienate a lot of the less athletic divisional players that are really bringing the money in to support the league?
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:03 PM #217
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Any team that has played in the champions division three times out of four tournaments should be able to play world cup in the champions division in my opinion. Top 8 teams in total points play champions the next year. You may have to have teams play more games in the prelims but that makes it even better. Infamous doesnt deserve to play in world cup to me, atleast this year.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:13 PM #218
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Originally Posted by Luke ???? View Post
What the psp needs to do is have more stand-up bunkers, add more pins as lane blockers, and block out the center opening in the 50 for more fluid movement and allow formats to be front player friendly allowing for aggressive moves to be made and more cross field shots/gun battles to occur.

Fast counter punch paintball is key to creating more fast field layouts, create more people running than shooting and limiting paint will not be a needed factor.

Look at MAO and WCO and see how little movement was made off the break in regards to players making the snake corner, god bunker (snake insert), and S1 and the same on D-side.

More teams were stacking 2-3 players on both the center can and stand-up aztec majority of the points and maybe 1 player in the d-side small-cake bunker.

Coming from a spectator point of view, seeing layouts that support snake highway, center, d-side highway bunker/run-through moves and off the break moves past the 40 to the fifty are the most exciting.

Allow players who are fast movement wise to dictate the tempo of the game.

Make x-ball the aggressor friendly format.
This part I fully agree with!


Quote:
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[u][b]
Remove race-to format and allow for majors to be 1:00 min penalty, only the penalized player to be pulled, an extra point for the other team, and not stop the clock until a concede/flag hang, official time out, emergency, or all players dead to stop the clock.

That means 4 points can be made during a period of play for only one point being 3 players max can be in the penalty box.

Get rid of mini-races and small cakes except on snake side and blocking out the center 50 hole. They shouldn't be any where else on the field.
- This part I do not

First of all, only pulling the offending player on penalties, makes no sense... Since the penalty is often playing on, you are now giving players an incentive to play on, because a 1 minute penalty is better than a straight up elimination... It's better to get penalized than eliminated, because you can re-enter the game after a minute

Secondly, the race-to format is fine.... when a field plays aggressive, we get aggressive games, when a field plays slow, we get slow games.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:19 PM #219
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I couldn't see blocking out the middle of the 50. Imagine how dominant that thing would be if you could move freely. I wouldn't mind the snake beams getting a little bigger.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:22 PM #220
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I couldn't see blocking out the middle of the 50. Imagine how dominant that thing would be if you could move freely. I wouldn't mind the snake beams getting a little bigger.
it's been done before. World Cup 2013 had a filled center IIRC and played just fine
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:36 PM #221
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Bites that Dynasty's out of WC but man this whole relegation things does seem a bit not so right. You would think, everyone is trying to promote the world of paintball that we all love and here you have an awesome team that a lot of people love so let's let them get relegated due to a bad day and not play WC, hmmmm, Marketing Major here and a darn good one, that is the biggest bone head idea of the century. Those of us that play will always play but trying to bring new folks into the fold, a team like Dynasty pulls in a lot of new fans Guaranteed, so do a lot of the top tier teams, and if they keep getting relegated and out of the picture it becomes way to confusing for the casual fan to want to keep track and they lose interest. Like some one else said that is along the lines of say the NY Yankees having a bad year and getting relegated for a minor league team, who really wants to watch the minor league team when you have the Yankees.

I get that new talent needs to be brought up but this is also a business here hate to say but it is, so don't take the Nike logo off the shoe otherwise you wont sell anymore shoes.

Marketing Major from Mizzou. If there was a "challengers division" in the SEC, Mizzou would be CEP.

nuff said



Did you get into paintball because you heard about how great to watch the professional tournaments were, or did you get into it because some one invited you or you heard about it at school?

An interested person who has never played paintball doesn't care about Dynasty's WC aspirations. They care about how fun the sport is to play.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:37 PM #222
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Despite what this event might suggest, Dynasty is still one of the best teams in the world. This is shown by their record over the last two seasons and individual player ranking. They didn't face relegation all year and then it comes to the last event and they get relegated. Just doesn't seem right.

Edit: Cup should be reseeded based on season performance.
And Russian Legion is the most successful PSP team EVER and no one called it unfair when they got relegated once or twice???

Hell, AC's poor performance until now is something I like to blame on the coaching. Even though they performed well this event, they still didnt seam like the players that they were on RL. I was not impressed. Keep Axle and Fedorov on the snake side.


Dynasty deserved what they got. Its not like they didnt know what happens when you lose all your games. You get bumped down. If they were skimping on practice then maybe that is to blame on their poor performance. I remember Oliver saying in an interview that he missed one weekend of paintball and he felt guilty. These are the kind of guys who make practice every week. Start missing practice and start playing poorly. Sorry, thats how it is. RL players 4-5 days a week or they get cut from the team.


And Infamous not doing well. Not really surprised. Those guys dont seem to have a good practice schedule, at least not from the Winter videos from this past winter. Not having the entire team together and practicing regular walk on players is not how a pro should practice.


As for Aftershock, I dont know what to say. They seem to struggle a lot.. they can start off super strong and then just flop.


Im most excited for the new RL team. With Kiril back, they make semi finals. Thats excellent. Id love to see them smash down AC at World Cup considering their fast track to success event to event.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:41 PM #223
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And Russian Legion is the most successful PSP team EVER and no one called it unfair when they got relegated once or twice??? Hell, AC's poor performance until now is something I like to blame on the coaching. Even though they performed well this event, they still didnt seam like the players that they were on RL. I was not impressed. Keep Axle and Fedorov on the snake side. Dynasty deserved what they got. Its not like they didnt know what happens when you lose all your games. You get bumped down. If they were skimping on practice then maybe that is to blame on their poor performance. I remember Oliver saying in an interview that he missed one weekend of paintball and he felt guilty. These are the kind of guys who make practice every week. Start missing practice and start playing poorly. Sorry, thats how it is. RL players 4-5 days a week or they get cut from the team. And Infamous not doing well. Not really surprised. Those guys dont seem to have a good practice schedule, at least not from the Winter videos from this past winter. Not having the entire team together and practicing regular walk on players is not how a pro should practice. As for Aftershock, I dont know what to say. They seem to struggle a lot.. they can start off super strong and then just flop. Im most excited for the new RL team. With Kiril back, they make semi finals. Thats excellent. Id love to see them smash down AC at World Cup considering their fast track to success event to event.

Actually Dynasty is the most successful PSP team..they have 1 more PSP win than them
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:48 PM #224
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it's been done before. World Cup 2013 had a filled center IIRC and played just fine
True. That layout was a blast.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:54 PM #225
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i still think if the weight of WC is what everyone wants it to be then the top 10 teams in point value should be at WC champions bottom 10 in point value in challengers, then the next year to start its based off of the top 10 in points as well, it makes no sense if the weight of WC is so significant then why bar a dominating team from playing in it? obviously dynasty faltered, but if it were edmonton impact being relegated id have a larger case,

series champs to me sounds like a side show stunt, when you hear world champs xfactor? they had one good event last year and there champs? need more structure need a season if we want to be taken seriously as a sport.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:12 PM #226
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Marketing Major from Mizzou. If there was a "challengers division" in the SEC, Mizzou would be CEP.

nuff said



Did you get into paintball because you heard about how great to watch the professional tournaments were, or did you get into it because some one invited you or you heard about it at school?

An interested person who has never played paintball doesn't care about Dynasty's WC aspirations. They care about how fun the sport is to play.
Sorry degree not from Mizzou, just because I live here doesn't mean I went to school here, more of an Ivy League kind of guy sorry to disappoint

Yup got into paintball because it was fun and that is for sure, but so is football, and baseball and probably every professional sport out there and they all have positive roll models on teams that we connect with and I guarantee you more kids play footballs or basketball because of the Payton Manning's or Micheal Jordan's of the world than those of us that play paintball. Wouldn't guys like Lang or Greenspan help inspire more younger player want to play if they were exposed to them? You have a young player who plays and he shows off to his friends looks at these guys, they make it look fun and exciting and something to aspire to is all I am saying. It definitely does not hurt, but as I normally see on forums people have a closed mind and can not see a bigger picture and put others down for there opinions. I accept yours and it is ok you feel the way you do, but maybe if you just thought about it a little harder maybe it could be bigger than all of us could imagine. Quit thinking of why it has to stay the way it is and think bigger...
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:35 PM #227
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First of all, only pulling the offending player on penalties, makes no sense... Since the penalty is often playing on, you are now giving players an incentive to play on, because a 1 minute penalty is better than a straight up elimination... It's better to get penalized than eliminated, because you can re-enter the game after a minute

Secondly, the race-to format is fine.... when a field plays aggressive, we get aggressive games, when a field plays slow, we get slow games.
The reason I put the 1 point/major penalty is to create a sense of urgency in players making them wanting to move through having taller/larger bunkers as lane blockers to support greater field movement and more decisive 1 on 1's based on movement and steady run and gun skills, rather than just gun battling, to support more aggressive play.

Larger players have more bunkers that support their size and smaller players can become harder to pin down by having more angles to shoot from.


Comparing x-ball pre race-to and current race-to, the game has slowed down much, and with the MAO and WCO layouts, watching games has become very boring on the webcast.

Looking at other sports, blowouts happen and the sport entertainment establishment doesn't care either, look at the last Superbowl.

I don't care if a pro team has a 25-0 score over another at the end of the game;
If you don't want a team to score 20 points against you, don't compete, especially the pro level.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:57 PM #228
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I don't care if a pro team has a 25-0 score over another at the end of the game;
I do, because it is a huge waste of money for everyone.

Once you are up 7-0, there is really no point to continuing to play.

I like race-to just the way it is - I just want the field kits and field designs to get better - the designs have, the last 2 events.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:20 PM #229
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I do, because it is a huge waste of money for everyone.

Once you are up 7-0, there is really no point to continuing to play.

I like race-to just the way it is - I just want the field kits and field designs to get better - the designs have, the last 2 events.
there have been come backs from 7 before...way back in the day. i specifically remember infamous doing it to avalanche in the 2005 world cup. and the naughty dogs doing it to new york x in 2006.

i recall dynasty coming back from 6 points against the russians in 06 too.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:47 PM #230
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I singled out 187 based on amount of time you all have faced relegation. But you are right, there is something to be said for the resilience and growth of your squad. I didn't mean to take anything away from how far 187 has come.

That being said, up to this point Dynasty has had a better season than a number of teams that will be playing in the champions division at cup.
Like I mentioned earlier, the relegation system and challengers division was made for the newer Pro teams coming up from D1, and the rebuilding Pro teams who were getting shut out in the Pro division on the webcast and not creating exciting games to watch..

Honestly, I think it has served all 3 purposes I posted earlier very well.

It's allowed these newer D1 teams to get experience, 187 is a prime example of this. When they first came to Pro they were able to score points, and win a couple matches here and there. But now they are more consistently winning matches and always providing much closer points and tougher matches.. They still have some work to do, but they're getting there. And Vicious has gotten a lot better as well. And Aftershock was in a worse spot than 187, they used to get pooped on and 7-0'd almost every match, now they are really putting up some great matches and making it out of prelims.

These teams in the Challengers division coming from D1 like VcK, Revo, they get to play against the Champions division teams who have dropped down like 187, Vicious, Aftershock, Art Chaos, Heat, RL, Infamous, Xfactor, etc. And they are able to get a feel for the competition and learn what the difference is, and they are getting much better, quicker. They are winning their way out of Challengers division..

Yeah it sucks only 8 teams stay in Champions so 2 are dropping no matter what, and if it's a fluke layout, or event, or just a bad day you can find yourself dropping down. But it's not like they're stuck there they can win their way back up. Look at Heat, Vicious, Art Chaos, RL, Aftershock, they drop down, get a fire underneath them, prepare, and come back and play in the semi-finals and finals in champions division next event.. Gotta prepare every event and want it..

Dynasty seemed to fall off the ball the last two seasons towards the end of it. Like the drive to win isn't there. Now they're in the Challengers, and hungry teams like Xfactor, and a Revo team who has been nothing but impressive in their short time in Pro and successful fighting up the divisions is coming up.. I don't see how either of these teams deserve it less than Dynasty. And 187 is showing they are here to compete in Champions and that they are not a Challengers team, same with Heat.

Everyone coming into the event knew what was at stake, you gotta perform... No excuses.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:07 AM #231
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So all it took was for Dynasty to get relegated for people wanting to change the system and suddenly see a flaw? Change the way it is scored, change the way world cup works, change which teams battle which teams.

Over the years the paintball community fights change, any kind of change but now this scenario doesn't play in their favor and its all up in arms demanding something must be changed.

As for the sports analogies STOP IT! they are useless and highly inaccurate. For starters Challengers are Pro. A small fact that is dismissed so quickly and referred to as minor league. Going by that logic you're below everything you say you are: "what-ever" major > high school graduate, paintball player > weekend warrior, human being > over developed monkey. (the last one is kind of evident in a lot of the post on this thread) The teams, players and their loved ones have sacrificed a lot for them to be at the level that they are and you want to take that away just because you're a die-hard fanboy?

Go focus your energy on the Dynasty forum and ask them why the played like crap. Tell them that in your so ever godly presence and infinite wisdom how they should play and what they should do. See what kind of responses you will get. Because in the end the team knew the stakes and be it lack of preparation, lack of focus or whatever they came unprepared in a highly competitive game.
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