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Old 08-05-2014, 10:58 PM #1
skateandpaint
 
 
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It just wont flick? :(

OK so ive been pretty happy with my pm7 now that i have solved most of the issues that came with buying a 7 year old used marker thats been thru who knows how many owners or years of neglect. last time i played my bolt would sieze up and just not shoot and i would pulll the drivetrain out and the bolt was 100% siezed and i had to unscrew the tophat for it to move again. Now since then i changed the orings on the bolt assembly and ran a few pods just fine without a hickup but my bolt still does not flick atall unless i realllyyyyy flick the crap out of it and it doesnt work every time still. Now it worked when i ran a few pods (like 2 pods on 2 separate occasions) but im worried about the bolt siezeing next time during extended play. Is there any tricks to get your bolt to flick better? i was thinking of having it polished by pooty but i was worried about my oring sizes changing from stock (does that happen with polishing?) . And yes i used the correct sizes i have an idiot proof color oring kit lol.

Any help is always appreciated.
Thanks in advance guys
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:01 PM #2
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Thats just the thing, if it's a dye colored oring kit they seem to run a little bit "bigger" per say, if you have time and money you can just dry fire your gun 13432534654 times to get them to wear down a bit...

if you want a smooth "flick" test i'd go with oringstore buna orings. same sizes its just the black bunas have always ran a little smoother

getting it polished isnt too bad of a idea pooty hands fits his orings as well all black bunas
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:34 AM #3
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What lube are you using ?

Try taking off the can top hat and back cap and put them back one at a time and cycle the bolt in your hand to figure out which of them is causing all the friction.

Definitely sounds like you are a good candidate for polishing.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:25 PM #4
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what does it mean to hand fit o rings? ik that sounds dumb but im not sure what that means exactly. and its not a dye colored oring kit but a color oring kit from captain oring. and i dont mind using black orings its just hard sometimes to tell the sizes apart if you dont have a separated oring kit ya kno.

edit- and if after polishing, the oring sizes change? would pooty tell me the new oring sizes? i want to be able to maintain the marker myself. I have to say the pm7 is a rather simple marker to maintain this is one of the first markers where i have serviced or taken apart literally every inch of the marker and put it back together good as new.

dbl edit- im using this stuff called motion potion the guys from cousins paintball swear by the stuff for alll dms
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:50 PM #5
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That motion potion is probably swelling your orings... Totally re do all the orings and get a Dow 33 lube or lurker lube.
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:43 PM #6
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i have dow 33 but when i used that last time before changing my orings it siezed up worse
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:51 PM #7
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Moton potion might be dow 55 based and swelling orings use dow 33 based like sl33k or dye.

i dont know how captains orings are they might run big
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:57 PM #8
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Just put it on 30 bps ramp lube it up dry fire 2+ tanks though it. Then do the flick test.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:02 AM #9
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Polishing won't make it smooth enough to get it where you want it if it's that bad. And especially not enough to offset the negative effect of polishing, which is that your lube won't stick as well. I would start with using different orings and dow33
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:30 PM #10
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OK the motion potion does NOT swell o rings and its sweard by toxic performance to be the best lube around for dye markers http://www.pblegion.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=13
Darth what is the negative effect of polishing? and all i have it a captain oring kit so i have to order some different orings.

Motion potion is not dow 55 based and its made by and sweared by Gen e - toxic. both makers of the original matrix they developed motioin potion to use in the cold weather. Cousins did a vid of putting a rail in the freezer with motion potion and it worked lol

also i checked the oring store and im not sure what orings to buy. Can anyone recommend good orings that would come in a pm7 kit like oring monkey? is oring monkey orings good?
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:26 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skateandpaint View Post
OK the motion potion does NOT swell o rings and its sweard by toxic performance to be the best lube around for dye markers http://www.pblegion.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=13
Darth what is the negative effect of polishing? and all i have it a captain oring kit so i have to order some different orings.

Motion potion is not dow 55 based and its made by and sweared by Gen e - toxic. both makers of the original matrix they developed motioin potion to use in the cold weather. Cousins did a vid of putting a rail in the freezer with motion potion and it worked lol

also i checked the oring store and im not sure what orings to buy. Can anyone recommend good orings that would come in a pm7 kit like oring monkey? is oring monkey orings good?


oring monkey is good as well...

but oringstore is cheaper.


look in your PMR7 manual. and match the orings up


here is 001-0055

for the bolt alone you need



FUSE™ BOLT O-RING LIST
1 Bolt tip (014 BN70) 6 Top hat (017 UR70)
2 Bolt sail (015 BN70) 7 Top hat (013 BN70)
3 Inside bolt stem (009 BN70) 8 Outer sleeve (020 BN70)
4 Rear bolt stem (009 BN70) 9 Front bumper (015 BN70)
5 Front wall internal (017 UR70) 10 Rear bumper (111 BN70)

LPR

The LPR has five components and six seals
1 Piston large o-ring (012 BN70) 6 Piston small o-ring (006 UR90)
2 Piston 7 Main seal (mounted in the seal retainer)
3 Piston spring 8 Seal retainer o-ring (010 BN70)
4 Body 9 Seal retainer (functions as an adjustment screw also)
5 Body o-rings (4pcs, 012 BN70)

HPR

The Hyper2™ has eight components and six o-rings
Piston small o-ring (007 UR90)
Piston large o-ring (018 BN70)
Retainer o-ring (010 BN70)


the only ones you need for HPR is

http://www.dyepaintball.com/manuals/.../M7_Manual.pdf
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:46 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grss429 View Post
oring monkey is good as well...

but oringstore is cheaper.


look in your PMR7 manual. and match the orings up


here is 001-0055

for the bolt alone you need



FUSE™ BOLT O-RING LIST
1 Bolt tip (014 BN70) 6 Top hat (017 UR70)
2 Bolt sail (015 BN70) 7 Top hat (013 BN70)
3 Inside bolt stem (009 BN70) 8 Outer sleeve (020 BN70)
4 Rear bolt stem (009 BN70) 9 Front bumper (015 BN70)
5 Front wall internal (017 UR70) 10 Rear bumper (111 BN70)

LPR

The LPR has five components and six seals
1 Piston large o-ring (012 BN70) 6 Piston small o-ring (006 UR90)
2 Piston 7 Main seal (mounted in the seal retainer)
3 Piston spring 8 Seal retainer o-ring (010 BN70)
4 Body 9 Seal retainer (functions as an adjustment screw also)
5 Body o-rings (4pcs, 012 BN70)

HPR

The Hyper2™ has eight components and six o-rings
Piston small o-ring (007 UR90)
Piston large o-ring (018 BN70)
Retainer o-ring (010 BN70)


the only ones you need for HPR is

http://www.dyepaintball.com/manuals/.../M7_Manual.pdf
wow thanks alot man i rly appreciate you taking the time to do that .
but i know how to match the orings from the manual but if i order a kit in a bag sometimes its hard to tell them apart unless there all in separate bags do you know what i mean? and i run a CP reg and have a separate rebuild kit for that and i seem good in that dept. Im actually thinking of getting a hyper 3 when i come into some money i think it would make my pm7 look sick and even more modern. If my bolt doesnt stick on me again im seriously going to keep this gun forever i love the way it shoots and it simply wouldnt be worth the money i would get from selling it. Im gnna try and run black orings and see what happens. I dont really have the resources to dry fire a few tanks as most of the shops by me recently closed.

edit also its not a PMR7 its a proto matrix7 which is why i put my thread here cuz the proto matrix section is dead and its the same internals as the DM. im guessing you just did a typo tho cuz u included the lpr sizes lol
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:47 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skateandpaint View Post
wow thanks alot man i rly appreciate you taking the time to do that .
but i know how to match the orings from the manual but if i order a kit in a bag sometimes its hard to tell them apart unless there all in separate bags do you know what i mean? and i run a CP reg and have a separate rebuild kit for that and i seem good in that dept. Im actually thinking of getting a hyper 3 when i come into some money i think it would make my pm7 look sick and even more modern. If my bolt doesnt stick on me again im seriously going to keep this gun forever i love the way it shoots and it simply wouldnt be worth the money i would get from selling it. Im gnna try and run black orings and see what happens. I dont really have the resources to dry fire a few tanks as most of the shops by me recently closed.

edit also its not a PMR7 its a proto matrix7 which is why i put my thread here cuz the proto matrix section is dead and its the same internals as the DM. im guessing you just did a typo tho cuz u included the lpr sizes lol

oringstore comes in separate baggies. all labeled
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:36 AM #14
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Did you take apart the bolt and identify what parts are sticking?
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:33 PM #15
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Did you take apart the bolt and identify what parts are sticking?

yes it feels like the topat has alot more friction on it when i move it back and forth. When i took my bolt out today it appeared stuck again in the back position. this is my problem i think. Its like the bolt gets sucked back and then it gets stuck and wont cycle with the normal air pressure. I un-sieze it with my hand but i just dont understand why it keeps getting stuck. it makes me want to just scrap it and get a billy wing bolt. They make it for pm7s right? im guessing its the same as any pre dm9 bolt because thats when they shortened the bolt right? i want to play next weekend and i really dont want it to go down on me again like last time. When the bolt got siezed last time it would be stuck in the back position and either only move a slight bit and have balls roll out the barrel or it would just puff air. After i unsiezed the bolt today tho it felt like it flicked alot better today with just using motion potion and a tiny bit of dow33 on the sail oring. Im just unsure what the hell is going on that makes the bolt sieze like this in the back positon. Has this happened to anyone else
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:32 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skateandpaint View Post
yes it feels like the topat has alot more friction on it when i move it back and forth. When i took my bolt out today it appeared stuck again in the back position. this is my problem i think. Its like the bolt gets sucked back and then it gets stuck and wont cycle with the normal air pressure. I un-sieze it with my hand but i just dont understand why it keeps getting stuck. it makes me want to just scrap it and get a billy wing bolt. They make it for pm7s right? im guessing its the same as any pre dm9 bolt because thats when they shortened the bolt right? i want to play next weekend and i really dont want it to go down on me again like last time. When the bolt got siezed last time it would be stuck in the back position and either only move a slight bit and have balls roll out the barrel or it would just puff air. After i unsiezed the bolt today tho it felt like it flicked alot better today with just using motion potion and a tiny bit of dow33 on the sail oring. Im just unsure what the hell is going on that makes the bolt sieze like this in the back positon. Has this happened to anyone else

they never made a billy wing bolt for pm7...

if you want billy wing... buy a dm9/10/11pm8 bolt and then buy a pm8 backcap.


change the inner tophat oring. in the manual it states that this should be a 013 oring.... modern matrices use a 014 oring here.... try both to see what works better.


whatch this video and you will discover why its "seizing" there
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:52 PM #17
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how would the dm9 bolt work in my pm7 since they made the bolt shorter in both years? or would that be why i need a pm8 back cap? I just didnt think that would work. and wouldnt the 014 make it tighter? I currently have an 013 in there ill try and swap it and flick it but i have no air to test

damm it i knicked the tophat taking that oring out!!! i checked it on the bolt and its not scratching anything even with no oring in the slot but i did put a tiny nick on the inside of the oring groove.! im running my finger and bolt all over it and its not scratching anything its just a small indent. now will this cause my bolt to leak now? ughhh im so mad i just did this. IM gnna include pics but i almost think he pics make it look worse


without o ring


with
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:39 PM #18
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I don't know what to tell you about the nick...


Just swap around your 013 orings till You find one that isint super tight or send the bolt in to be polished

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3272639


Everything threads on together just fine. But you would use pm7 can, pm8 backcap and dm9 billywing
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:02 PM #19
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Ok i changed the oring the 014 was way too big. went back to an 013 and it feels like it just needs to be broken in. and it seems like when the bolt sits is when it gets stuck in the back positoin. And thats kinda the problem im having too i would lube the bolt and it would fire then i would take a break from shooting and it would just puff air. I have no idea why if when it sits there it gets super tight but after the first shot or flick it will start cycling. And what do u mean you dont know about the nick? i checked it, its very small and left no abrasions on the bolt or anything and i dont think its large enough to effect the seal. what could happen with a nick? Just to be sure im going to get some air tomorrow and were really going to get to the bottom of this.

edit - with tonights flick testing im seeing that the bolt requires an extreamly hard flick if the bolt has been sitting. then after that it flicks pretty nice. This is probably why im getting terrible fsdo even with abs on
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:32 PM #20
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Dye machines the bolts to have tighter seals when the bolt is fully back.

I meant I don't know either way on the nick.

The 013 oring we are talking about is the #1 reason for sticking on that certain position.

Turn up your LPR a turn if you aren't willing to try other orings
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:43 PM #21
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also real quick... can you verify wether the bolt bumper oring (behind red bolt sail) is yellow or tan?
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