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View Poll Results: Which bob gun do you shoot?
V1/V2 1 5.88%
VCOM 2 11.76%
VIS 4 23.53%
insight 10 58.82%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-29-2014, 10:05 PM #1
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School me on bobs single tube guns

Okay so I'm looking to get into the bob long family. I am blown away by his gun's shot quality, efficiency, and care put into them. They're "his" creations. I feel like I'm ready to drop the dough.

1. Whats the difference between all his engines in chronological order? For instance what is different between the VIS engine, VCOM poppet, V1, V2, SC, ect. All the little technical things are very interesting to me!

2. How is the insight engine different than the VCOM spool?

3. Sell me on bob long guns! they all seem so phenomenal, so let your inner fanboy out and lay it all on me here!

4. Why do you love them?

5. How long have you been shooting them?

6. Which do you have/ if more than one, which do you shoot the most?

cheers! Please be as thorough as possible in your answers. If your reply is less than a line long, you dont get the point of this thread
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:14 PM #2
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:23 PM #3
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Thanks man, read through papa pink's post and that was exactly what I'm looking for! Bring on the viewpoints guys!
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:26 PM #4
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I havent shot the vcom or vis engine but I have got an insight and it is quite impressive. The feel is outstanding and the shot quality is great with very little kick. I use to shoot a marq 6 back in the day but this insight is on another level. I would highly recommend the gun and the maintenance is really easy.
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:32 PM #5
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I'm just going to post this since I can. Let me start by saying I currently own 2 Insights, 2 Victi and 3 Victories, so I'm a little biased.

First off all Victories, V1s, V2s, Rippers Vcoms and the latest VIS Victories are all essentially the same with the exception of the milling, engines and electronics they came with. The latest Vcom Spool Engine and VIS Poppet will work in V1 Victories; likewise the SC engine of the older Victories will work in the newest Victories. So it really comes down to what you want out of a Victory and which milling you prefer. If you purchase a new Vcom or VIS milled Victory you will receive both the Vcom Spool Engine and the latest Poppet, the VIS engine with the marker. Older Victories will likely still have the older SC engine that was released in 2009 I believe.

The SC engine is your typical poppet and will feel a lot like the SC engine in a Gen 1 Marq or Ego 11. It is simple to maintain and clean and would still use Dow 55 as the grease of choice. It will run off a LPR setting of 75ish and a HPR of around 200psi. When properly setup, I could get about a case off a 68/45. Here is a breakdown of the engine; real simple:


The Vcom Spool engine was a real surprise when it was released in march of 2013. The Vcom spool is your typical spool in that it is a much softer shot than the SC engine and operates at lower pressures. This engine was designed by Bob Long to be the smoothest and quietest spool valve possible; and let me tell you it sure is smooth and quiet. The Vcom Spool is the second best shooting engine I have experience with just behind the Clone GTi. The Smoothness of this engine is hard to explain other than to say without hearing the marker fire, you would be hard pressed to know anything happened … It is like firing a DM 12 at 200 FPS … it doesn’t move in your hands … there is very little vibration that the firing sequence produces let alone any perceived recoil. The only weakness I have found with the engine is the efficiency. It is again a typical spool valve in that the efficiency is low when compared to the SC poppet and is about in line with other high-end spools available today like the DM-14 and Luxe. From a brand new Vcom engine, I saw 1010 Rounds before significant FPS drop off with a 4200ish fill on a 68 ci tank; not great, but that will improve as the engine breaks in a little. In a recent test, a Vcom engine I have used quite a bit got close to 1300 rounds. Unlike the Luxe or Clone GTi maintenance is supper simple and there are a total of 5 o-rings to check for the most part. The engine operates off of 55 to 65 psi LPR and 150 to 155 ish HPR. Unlike the SC engine, for the Vcom you want to use a normal grease that does not swell o-rings; such as dow 33, Monkey Poo or Pathogen Super Grease. NO Dow 55 as it will cause drag and cause serious issues. The Vcom Spool engine wants to be as frictionless as possible.
Here is a break down of the engine; yes it really is this simple:


Now the latest VIS Poppet engine was released originally in October of 2013 I believe, and if you ask me offers the best of both the Vcom spool and SC poppet engines in one engine. Bob Long designed this engine to be the smoothest shot possible at 15 rounds a second. Is it smoother than the Vcom or Clone GTi? No, but it is shocking smooth for a poppet; smoother than the PE LV1. I like a little bit of tactile feedback from my markers while they are firing; markers with a little bit of feedback, recoil, kick that can be easily held on target with one hand without any muzzle rise are just about perfect if you ask me. The new VIS engine from Bob Long is a night and day difference from the other Victory Poppet that it replaces, the Super Charged engine. The VIS is as smooth and stable as a Luxe 2.0 using stock settings, giving that perfect amount of feedback. The VIS goes one step further and retains some of the organic feel the Luxe has that the Insight lacks. It is truly shocking how smooth the VIS engine is. Combined with awesome efficiency numbers achieved by a brand new engine running stock pressures from the factory and I’m simply stunned by this engine. Some have reported that through fine tuning the LPR and HPR, you can increase the efficiency to well over a case; given the 1975 shots I got off a 68/45 using stock settings and pressures I have no doubt that is possible. The only down side that I have found (which actually a positive to me) is that the VIS engine is louder than any of the Spools mentioned before and the LV1. It is not the Cannon the old SC engine was however, as the new VIS is just a tad bit louder than the Geo 3; so louder, but just so.
Again, it is hard to describe just how much I like this engine, it has the feedback I want while remaining controlled and the efficiency I need given my local field only fills to 3k. The engine operates off of 60 to 70 psi LPR and 170 to 180 ish HPR. Just like in the Vcom engine, you want to use a normal grease that does not swell o-rings; such as dow 33, Monkey Poo or Pathogen Super grease.
It is as simple to maintain as the original SC engine and the internals are very similar.


Overall the Victory platform is an excellent marker with the flexibility of a supper smooth and quiet shot when you want it in the Vcom Spool, and the efficiency and still rather smooth shot of the VIS Poppet when you need it. With these two engines you really do get the best of both worlds in one marker.

Now for the Insight.
The Insight NG has had a rather troublesome teething period since its release in June 2013. With current upgrades to the board software with the 5.19bd flash, and the replacement of two o-rings in the engine (the 19 to a 2x20 and replacing the 10 in the brass shutoff with a urethane 10) the Insight is up and running 100%. The Insight is a dedicated spool platform. While its engine was based off the Vcom Spool engine it was designed to be as efficient as possible by having a faster return to battery. With efficiency numbers between 1700 – 1800 (Hustle Paintball saw 1950 from theirs) rounds from a standard 68/45 the Insight engine provides astonishing efficiency from a spool valve. It does this while still being a smooth spool valve; as smooth as other high-end Spool valves available today; both the Vcom and the CLong GTi are smoother and a touch quieter.
Maintenance after each day of play is essential as you will need to re-lube the marker after every day of play or you will have issues. The Insights engine just eats lube and that is its one weakness. The upside is the Insight engine is as simple to lube and maintain as the Geo 3 which is widely considered the easiest spool valve design to maintain. Just as with the Vcom engine, you have 5 o-rings to check and a complete clean and lube takes me about 2 minutes to do. As you can see, the Insight engine is supper simple. It runs off a pressure of about 165 psi if there is little to no drag in the engine. Just like in the Vcom and VIS engines, you want to use a normal grease that does not swell o-rings; such as dow 33, Monkey Poo or Pathogen Super grease.


The Insight NG is for the player that wants an efficient spool that is still smooth and quiet and the player that wants a light high-tech marker that just does everything you could want from a paintball marker to do well. Now that used Insights are in the $600 to $800 range, I feel it is the best value in paintball today.

For much more info, look at my thoughts here on the Victory and other High-end markers:
http://www.pbriot.com/showthread.php...arker-Shootout!

I love the Insight, I love the way it shoots, and I love the efficiency, but they seem to still be having weird issues for some people. I have owned 5, and all of them have been some of the best performing markers I have shot ... ever. But it kills me to say this, you should probably be ready to tinker with the insight a little to get it working for you 100%. All have been solid markers for me and I have not had any issues, but there are some reported issues I can not explain as user error.
I have also owned every generation of Victory, from 4 V1s through the Ripper and two VIS Victories I own today. I still regret trading those earlier V1s ... they were just so darn good. I have owned every high-end available today with the exception of the Vanquish, and I keep coming back to the Victory time and time again. Two phenomenal engines in one package ... the flexibility that gives you is undeniable.

Having said that, My Insights do get more field time and they have never let me down. I have owned and operated Insights for about a year now.
My Victories are also used quite a lot; just not as much as the Insights. I have been shooting Victories on and off since 2011.

As much as I hate saying this, I would probably start with the Victory as it is a more mature platform overall and offers both a world-class spool and poppet in one platform.

Let me know if there are more questions I can help answer.

Kevin.
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Last edited by Big Papa Pink : 07-22-2014 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:40 PM #6
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wow

This was everything i asked for and more. great read and extremely helpful. Thanks for your time
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:50 PM #7
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My pleasure. Let us know if you have other questions, and it is likely that others will have different opinions of which is the better platform ... The Insight is super simple because it doesn't have a LPR to setup and maintain. Because of the LPR of the Victory, you will need a pressure tester so you can set the LPR for the engine you are using.
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:10 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Papa Pink View Post
My pleasure. Let us know if you have other questions, and it is likely that others will have different opinions of which is the better platform ... The Insight is super simple because it doesn't have a LPR to setup and maintain. Because of the LPR of the Victory, you will need a pressure tester so you can set the LPR for the engine you are using.
okay, what is the difference between the V1, and more modern victories's electronics? Is the board the same, or no. Maybe just the flash?
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:58 PM #9
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No, the boards are very different.
V1 Vics came standard with a led board that requires you to count flashes of different color light to know what your settings are. Some that are for sale today were upgraded to a Tadao board that has a USB interface and some even have LED/OLED screens but those boards are all aftermarket upgrades.
The boards of the V1 ere very basic, but they worked really well.
The current Frenzy boards have a really nice OLED screen in the rear of the grip frame and they are super easy to program. Let me grab some pics of the different boards ... I think I might have a original Victory board around here somewhere.
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Old 07-04-2014, 02:04 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Papa Pink View Post
No, the boards are very different.
V1 Vics came standard with a led board that requires you to count flashes of different color light to know what your settings are. Some that are for sale today were upgraded to a Tadao board that has a USB interface and some even have LED/OLED screens but those boards are all aftermarket upgrades.
The boards of the V1 ere very basic, but they worked really well.
The current Frenzy boards have a really nice OLED screen in the rear of the grip frame and they are super easy to program. Let me grab some pics of the different boards ... I think I might have a original Victory board around here somewhere.
i see. I know and love led boards, but probably it would be very nice to have a screen.
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Old 07-04-2014, 02:24 PM #11
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Okay so here is an example of each that I have.
Many V1s, V2s and early Ripper Vics I believe came with a Ryujin board like the one below:

It has a LED blinking light display used to set the board parameters. Basic board, but worked really well.

Next is a aftermarket board also made by Tadao and has a USB interface that allowed you to plug it into a computer to program the board. It also has the same LED light as the Ryujin board to program the board without the use of the USB. Another verion of this board also included a OLED display that required a window on the left side of the grips to show the display.


Virtue also has a Victorry OLED board that also has a screen that is displayed on the left hand side ... I do not have one to grab a pic of.

The latest board if the Frenzy 5.0 board that has the very nice OLED screen in the back of the grip:


My choice between the different options is the latest Frenzy 5.0 board. They are supper easy to program and the OLED screen is sharp and easy to read. I also like the convenience of a USB interface and is something Bob should look into for a Frenzy 6 board. A frenzy 5 with USB would be about the perfect board in my opinion.
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Old 07-04-2014, 02:26 PM #12
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Again, you rock man.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:45 PM #13
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**** bud you sold me on a victory!
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:23 PM #14
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**** bud you sold me on a victory!
me too! Picked up a V1 in the color that I wanted here on the nation and a spool engine for it! Cant wait!!
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:18 PM #15
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Picked up a victory freaking amazing and got a insight, looked up on YouTube I can put a vcom engine in my victory any truth
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:02 AM #16
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Yes the Vcom Spool engine and the latest VIS poppet will work in any generation Victory. I would recommend that you also pick up a pressure tester to properly set the pressures.
I think you Gents will like how the Vcom engine shoots; however as I posted above, I prefer the VIS engine over the Vcom spool.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:12 PM #17
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I'll see how i like it tomorrow. It'll arrive then along with a pressure tester. would've bought the vis, but its $80 more expensive. My V1 already arrived and i did a complete strip down to learn a bit more about how it works. Amazing gun! (just judging off what i saw). I figured out that mine has the frenzy 3 board. Bit of a B#$%H to program. I'd love to pick up a Ryujin board, Tadao board, or similar for cheap. Would just like to program without having to peel the grip
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Old 07-10-2014, 08:54 PM #18
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I have a Frenzy 4.0 in my Darq. It is externally adjustable. I don't like DIP switches either. They are a pain in the ***. I just played with it earlier today. I got there late & only got in two games. It shot awesome.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:22 PM #19
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Quote:
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I'll see how i like it tomorrow. It'll arrive then along with a pressure tester. would've bought the vis, but its $80 more expensive. My V1 already arrived and i did a complete strip down to learn a bit more about how it works. Amazing gun! (just judging off what i saw). I figured out that mine has the frenzy 3 board. Bit of a B#$%H to program. I'd love to pick up a Ryujin board, Tadao board, or similar for cheap. Would just like to program without having to peel the grip
I forgot about the Frenzy 3 boards ...
Well, that Ryujin board in the first pic is just hanging out in the closet. PM me if you want to discuss it.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:22 PM #20
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Examples of the different Generations and the milling on each.

V1 Victory: Released in 2009



V2 Victory: Released in 2011


Ripper Victory: Released in 2011, 2013 with OLED



Vcom Victory: Released in 2013



VIS Victory: Released in Late 2013

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