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Old 06-30-2014, 08:54 PM #1
jcluett
 
 
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Need help deciding on a milsim sniper

I've been looking into a number of different options and can't find anything that fits what i'm looking for.

I want it to have the following

- on the fly switching between mag fed and hopper fed.
- modifiable with different kits.
- can mount a scope/sight
- can mount a bipod
- has threading that will fit smart parts barrels (not 100 percent necessary)

A lot of these things may be standard on milsim guns i'm not sure. up until recently I've been a mostly speedball guy, so my knowledge of milsim kinda ends with the Tippmann X7 (which everyone and their dog seems to have)

Thanks for any help!
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Old 07-01-2014, 01:25 AM #2
The Inflicted
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There are a number of markers that will do the first couple things you want (DYE DAM, Spyder MR5, Tiberius T9.1) but to my knowledge there aren't any magazine-fed markers that take Ion/Impulse barrels, unless you count a longbow Ion as magazine-fed.

If you're wanting to "snipe" at all, you're probably going to want something that shoot first strike projectiles. All the guns I mentioned do.

Finally, if you've never played magfed before, I would recommend starting out with a low-capacity "tac cap" for your X7 first, and see if you like that.

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Old 07-01-2014, 05:36 AM #3
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Thanks for the tips.

I don't actually own an x7, just tried out a friends a couple of times.

I was actually going to buy one and get the sniper kit for it but was advised by a friend to go mag fed with FS.

Since I posted this thread I did come across one of the guns you mentioned, the T9.1. It looks like it has everything I need, but I'm on the fence about dropping that kind of cash. (800 vs 450 for the x7 phenom)

If you take FS out of the equation how does it operate with normal paint, in regards to accuracy and chopping? I ask because FS aren't cheap and I imagine I would use them somewhat sparingly.

That DYE Dam looks amazing, even if its completely out of my price range haha.
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Old 07-01-2014, 02:00 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcluett View Post
I've been looking into a number of different options and can't find anything that fits what i'm looking for.

I want it to have the following

- on the fly switching between mag fed and hopper fed.
This first criteria limits you. The T9.1, DAM and MR5 are your only choices. (The MRX too but why go from mag to hopper when both are loaded with standard paintballs?) If the T9.1 is out of your price range then the DAM is too.

One other thing to consider is magazine cost. You will need at least 4 mags if you are putting FS rounds in the mags and using your hopper for standard rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcluett View Post
If you take FS out of the equation how does it operate with normal paint, in regards to accuracy and chopping? I ask because FS aren't cheap and I imagine I would use them somewhat sparingly.
That's the great thing about running a hopper and a mag of FSRs. You don't have to worry about using them sparingly. You use them only when you have a shot that requires the range and improved accuracy the FSRs provide. Any other time, you run off your hopper.

Quote:
That DYE Dam looks amazing, even if its completely out of my price range haha.
It is an amazing gun. This is how I have my DAM configured:



I ran with Evil in the hopper and FSRs in 12 round mags. I have the V2 bolt, a Hammerhead 16" rifled barrel with a .689 back, a Lapco HushShot tip (the Hammerhead is unported...thing can be loud) and an APEX2 tip. I'm still not sold on the Apex, more testing is required.

Anyway, this weekend I was a general at the TET scenario game at SC Village in SoCal. I didn't get out much but both times when I got out of my CP, the DAM proved to be the right tool for the job. Read on if you want to understand why I say getting a marker that can switch from one type of feed system to another is a major advantage at a scenario or big game.

I had to get out of my CP as it was under rocket fire (CP kills were worth no points but general kills were. Sure you can blow up my CP, I'm going to be over here...) so I got into a position outside the CP where I had a better view of the field. I could push my long barrel past ground cover yet still keep the cover in front of me to keep me hidden and protect me from paintballs that might come my way. Down below, I could see two opposing players that had no idea I was there firing across the field at my team. Their position gave me very nice profile targets. Flick the On-The-Fly system on the DAM to magazine feed, shoot the one paintball in the chamber to load up a FSR, take aim at the guy in the window and shoot him out in one shot. His buddy had better cover and the only exposed part of him was between the bunker his backside was poking out of. However, about 2" past the bunker was a wooden pole that covered up the rest of what was poking out the bunker so I had a 4' tall but 2" wide target to shoot at. It took about three shots before I threaded the gap and sent him on his way.

Since the last mission of the day had already gone out, I moved into the woods solo. My team was pressing a flag station in the city to complete the final mission and I was hoping to sweep around to the opponent's rear through the woods. I ran into two opposing players in the woods and we got into a brief firefight. The first thing I did was switch my On-The-Fly lever back to hopper feed since I needed firepower not precision. I got one but the other I lost track of so I boogied down the road about 40 yards then dropped into some brush in a slight depression next to the road and made like a log. I could hear players moving behind me, their paint bouncing around in their pods, but stayed in cover trying to slow my breathing.

After about 10 minutes of waiting to make sure the other guy hadn't gone to ground and was waiting for me to move first, I saw a patrol of about 5 opposing players ahead of me. Directly to my front was the road through the woods I was on, then some medium tall grass, then the road between the woods and the village/city where my team and the opposing team were battling for the last flag station. Still with a paintball in my chamber, I switched my On-The-Fly lever back to magazine feed. I waited for the first four players of the patrol to move out of sight of me, took aim on the back of #5, and fired. The paintball went high and right but he didn't realize he was being shot at. Now, with a FSR chambered, I fired again. The round hit him square in the shoulder. He turned looking for where it came from and couldn't see me so he chaulked it up to friendly fire and headed back to his respawn point.

I figured that since respawn should be closed for the next 10 minutes, he would be a while. I stalked forward hoping to find the rest of his patrol that was moving towards the flag station and take them out.

What I came upon instead was the entire front line of the other team. They were all facing away from me. I had come up behind them and there was nobody on their team behind me execpt the guy I just sent to the dead box. I quickly switched my On-The-Fly lever back to hopper fed and continued to walk up closer planning on how I was going to execute this assault to maximize the number of players I took out before I myself was shot out. I wasn't getting out of here without getting taken out but if I could reduce their number substantially that might be all we needed to take the flag station. I got close to my first group of targets placing large berms of earth between me and groups of players other than the ones I had in my sights. I shot out all three before I was hit from behind.

Turns out respaw rules had changed for the last half hour...now there was no open and closed windows...it was intant respawn and the guy I had taken out had respawned and come back in behind me. Doom on me. (Which, if you have ever read the Dick Marcinko Rouge Warrior series you know exactly what I'm saying...) Had it not been for that one critical flaw, I feel I could have dropped 15 players before being seriously contested if not more. WIth all the firing they were doing towards my side of the field, even after I shot three guys out everyone figured they had been eliminated by the players to their front, not someone from behind. Only the one player behind me knew I was there even after shooting those guys out.

I relate these stories to you not just to sing the praises of the DAM (which I do adore...truely a beautiful gun.) but to bring home one important thought. As you can see from the picture above, my DAM would be considered to be a sniper setup. During scenario play though, you ARE going to be presented with situations where having just a magazine is going to put you at a sever disadvantage. Being able to switch over to a traditional hopper feed system on the fly is a HUGE bonus. This is the reason I bought the DAM. This is the reason why I switched from a marker that had served me flawlessly for 10 years of play.

It is worth every cent.

If you want to play that "sniper" role, FSRs are a must. But if you're doing scenario, try to get a marker that lets you switch from magazine to hopper on the field as, if you don't, every time you play and you decided to go on the field with one or the other, you're going to find a time where you wished you had whichever option you left back in the pits.

Last edited by Robotech : 07-01-2014 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 07-01-2014, 02:45 PM #5
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Before you buy a marker specifically for first strikes find out how many scenarios/fields you play at allow first strikes.

For me only one Scenario I go to allows first strikes and they're talking about changing that. My home fields allows them with some restrictions.

I would hate for you to buy a marker with the plan of playing primarily first strike and then not be able to do so. Beyond that I love my Dye DAM.
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Old 07-01-2014, 03:35 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drenlo View Post
Before you buy a marker specifically for first strikes find out how many scenarios/fields you play at allow first strikes.

For me only one Scenario I go to allows first strikes and they're talking about changing that. My home fields allows them with some restrictions.

I would hate for you to buy a marker with the plan of playing primarily first strike and then not be able to do so. Beyond that I love my Dye DAM.
Great point!

I take it for granted sometimes that because all my local fields allow them that all fields allow them and I forget that is not always the case.
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:34 AM #7
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The DAM is a great gun, but also hefty price tag. I know of a gun that will do most of those you required, except do magfed. Sucks, because if you want totally MILSIM, you want to "reload" when empty, right?
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:58 PM #8
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I'm in atlantic canada and Don't have a whole lot of fields. But the 3 within the region I play at do allow first strikes.

I think I've decided on the T9.1, but I have a couple questions for anyone that owns one/has used one. Are there any barrells that are longer that would fit the gun within hindering performance? Even though it's mostly cosmetic I would like to have the barrel longer rather then somewhat stubby looking one on the T9.1
(kinda similar in length to Robotech's DAM)

Also wondering if you can get a tip for the barrel that looks similar to that of the Barrett .50 cal (or a barrel that has it already)

Another question is about the different models of the T9.1. I've seen the Elite and Sniper, and can't find any huge differences aside from the $200 difference in price.
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:56 PM #9
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Hammerhead and LAPCO both make longer aftermarket barrels for the T9.1
LAPCO particularly makes some interesting rifled barrels that are intended specifically for First Strike use.






You might want to give the Tiberius T15 a look, too. It finally came out today and would seem to fit your criteria.
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Old 07-02-2014, 04:59 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcluett View Post
I'm in atlantic canada and Don't have a whole lot of fields. But the 3 within the region I play at do allow first strikes.

I think I've decided on the T9.1, but I have a couple questions for anyone that owns one/has used one. Are there any barrells that are longer that would fit the gun within hindering performance? Even though it's mostly cosmetic I would like to have the barrel longer rather then somewhat stubby looking one on the T9.1
(kinda similar in length to Robotech's DAM)
As Inflicted mentioned, Hammerhead and LAPCO both make barrels that can do this. I own one of each. In the picture above, that's a Hammerhead 16" rifled Battlestix barrel with a .689 fin (you can't see that part). That barrel is unported so I added LAPCO's 8" Hushshot tip which is nothing but porting.

I have also have the LAPCO 16" FSR (First Strike Ready) .683 rifled barrel. If you ONLY shoot FS rounds this is the barrel to have. If you shoot regular paint and FS rounds, I like the Hammerhead barrel better. The Lapco FSR barrel is so small that often times paint even slightly larger will break in it as the rifling can be very hard on an underbored paintball.

Quote:
Also wondering if you can get a tip for the barrel that looks similar to that of the Barrett .50 cal (or a barrel that has it already)
There have been two and here they are:





You'll note the one on the ACU camouflaged Warsensor WS-66 is the same one Inflicted posted in his third picture. The other one on my DAM is actually an older model I originally had on the WS-66 but replaced it with the nicer one. You can understand why.

BOTH tips were made by LAPCO in the mid 2000's and sold by (I believe) Ops Gear. Today, both are out of production and have been for quite some time. When I purchased my DAM last year, I looked for the updated .50 cal tip and couldn't find it anywhere then stumbled across that other tip still in my gun bag.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:49 PM #11
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That Warsenser looks so bad *** haha. Thanks for the tip on the lapco barrells, those look like exactly what I'm looking for.

So the Barrett tips are out of production, that kinda sucks. Any idea if they show up on ebay often?

Also, about the camo paintjobs. I saw a picture of a T9.1 with a very nice camo paintjob. I've looked into it and I don't believe Tiberius Arms ever produced them in that color. So one would assume they painted them themselves. How difficult is it to make them look like that?

Last question, upon finding the lapco barrel above I'm pretty sure i'm gonna be replacing the stock barrel with that one (assuming there isn't any performance issues). So with that being said, is it worth getting the sniper version of the T9.1 or would I be better off saving some money by getting the Elite version?
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:00 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcluett View Post
That Warsenser looks so bad *** haha. Thanks for the tip on the lapco barrells, those look like exactly what I'm looking for.

So the Barrett tips are out of production, that kinda sucks. Any idea if they show up on ebay often?
Thanks! The ones like on the DAM above do show up from time to time but I've never seen the newer style. I love the newer tip and would have bought one if they had.

Quote:
Also, about the camo paintjobs. I saw a picture of a T9.1 with a very nice camo paintjob. I've looked into it and I don't believe Tiberius Arms ever produced them in that color. So one would assume they painted them themselves. How difficult is it to make them look like that?
Funny you should ask that. The Warsensor up above and any of the aftermarket parts on the DAM I painted myself. A few weeks back, I painted the APEX2 tip you see in the very first picture I posted.



That is all paint and my team and I filmed it as a "how to" video on painting camouflage patterns. As soon as we get it edited (had a big scenario game last week) I'll post a link to that on here.

Short answer though is it isn't very hard. It just takes patience and the right prep and materials.
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:43 AM #13
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that is super awesome!
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:24 AM #14
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To answer your question about the different T9.1 Sniper/Elite/CQB/Ranger.

http://www.tiberiusarms.com/paintbal...-sniper-rifle/
http://www.tiberiusarms.com/paintbal...es/t9-1-elite/
http://www.tiberiusarms.com/paintball-rifles/t9-1-cqb/
http://www.tiberiusarms.com/paintbal...s/t9-1-ranger/

It's all about what comes prepackaged with the specific T9.1 series. The internals, functionality all works the same. You can break it down to just a pistol and add any accessories to the picatinny rails.

For example, the T9.1 Sniper comes with a LAPCO rifled barrel, adjustable riser (perfect for first strikes), scope and a tank built into the stock.

The other platforms do not have the rifle barrel or the tank stock. If anything the cheapest route can be the RANGER version and you can add any aftermarket barrel, sights, tank, remote line, or any else you would like to customise.

Some video references below.

Riser:


T9.1 Review:
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:17 PM #15
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Thanks for the tips guys!

I think I'm gonna do what the above poster mentioned and get the ranger or CQB version to start. I was hoping to get the rest of the season out of my Piranha Evo and save for T9.1 sniper over the winter, but I don't think the Piranha will last.

So Robotech I just want to make sure I'm understanding your setup correctly on the DAM. It's a 16" lapco WITH an 8" tip added on, totalling in a 24" barrel? That doesn't effect performance at all? I ask because I've been told for years that anything over 16" effects the distance of your shots. But again that was long before FS rounds existed.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:38 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcluett View Post
So Robotech I just want to make sure I'm understanding your setup correctly on the DAM. It's a 16" lapco WITH an 8" tip added on, totalling in a 24" barrel? That doesn't effect performance at all? I ask because I've been told for years that anything over 16" effects the distance of your shots. But again that was long before FS rounds existed.
To clarify, it is either a Lapco 16" FSR .683 barrel OR a Hammerhead 16" rifled barrel with a .689 fin. If I shoot just FS rounds then it's the Lapco. If I shoot regular paint and FS, it's the Hammerhead.

Then, on the end of either of those barrels is a 8" Lapco HushShot tip.

Then I have either a .50 cal muzzle break or the APEX2 tip which probably adds another 3-5 inches to the barrel. Total length is about 25"-27". It's a BIG barrel. I really need to measure it.

Anything over 14" does nothing but use more air. The way it works is this...once you go beyond that 14" - 16" inch mark, you are gaining no benefit from the barrel for range or precision. To get the ball to leave a long barrel like this at 285 fps, you usually have to up your velocity adjustment compared to shooting with a shorter barrel and thus use more air per shot.

I have a number of reasons why this barrel is so long. While with my old marker it was for looks alone, this barrel actually has function. Both the Lapco and Hammerhead barrels are rifled for FS rounds but have no porting. This makes them fairly loud and, as a marksman, that's bad.

So the 8" HushShot tip screws on to the end of either barrel and is nothing but porting. It's a larger bore than the other barrels so it doesn't affect the spin of the FS rounds but quiets the shot.

The APEX2, well, I'm still undecided about that and need more testing but the idea is that I can turn it on and use it to get a flatter trajectory on my regular paint. I tried it a bit this weekend but the results were inconclusive and very imprecise.

The length also comes in handy in hiding in the brush and getting the tip out in the open for a clear shot. Just keep in mind that the length of it makes for some awkward moments in tighter confines. To give you an idea of how big this thing is, here is a picture Dye took for their instagram page at this year's Tet Offensive last weekend. Now, keep in mind I'm 6'1" tall...


Last edited by Robotech : 07-03-2014 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Range or distance changed to range or precision.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:43 PM #17
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Quote:
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Anything over 14" does nothing but use more air. The way it works is this...once you go beyond that 14" - 16" inch mark, you are gaining no benefit from the barrel for range or distance.
I believe it's more like 8", though this can vary a bit depending on the operating pressure of the gun.
My experiments with setting barrels on a chronograph at different points has borne this out.
Anything beyond that is just a muffler.

Edit: any barrel length after the first porting isn't going to have any effect on accelerating the paintball.

Last edited by The Inflicted : 07-03-2014 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:35 PM #18
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Mistake on my part...should have said range or precision...not range or distance as those are the same thing. LOL Too much crap going on.

Inflicted is right...past about 8" there is no more acceleration. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean that a ball that shoots out of a 8" barrel at 300 fps will still shoot out of a 20" barrel at 300 fps without increasing the pressure or volume of the air propelling it? And if you have to increase that does that mean that the ball is accelerating faster in that 8" or taking further to accelerate? I've never done the experiment myself so perhaps you might know the answer to that.

Popular opinion, and personal observation, has shown that with a longer barrel I've needed to increase the volume of air behind the ball to keep it at the same fps by the end of the barrel.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:37 AM #19
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I haven't done the kind of high-speed camera research that Tom Kaye did with a glass barrel, but I would think that the paintball begins to decelerate as soon as it's done accelerating during the initial trip down the control bore and hit the first porting. If you're trying to chronograph the same gun with an 8" barrel and a 20" barrel, and you measure both times by placing the barrel's tip on the chrono, the 20" barrel is going to take more gas to get up to the same speed simply because the ball would have needed to accelerate beyond its muzzle velocity at some point in the middle of the barrel in order to still be at 300fps once it reaches the muzzle.

I would hazard to say that the extra barrel length beyond the optimal point of acceleration adds drag such that the ball is slowing down faster than it would in mid-air, but I'm not certain. Whether there are more complex pneumatic forces at work here, I don't know.

All that said, a ball shot from a 20" barrel is going to go farther from the shooter's hand than a ball shot from an 8" barrel, simply because the longer barrel gives it a 12" head start.
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:09 AM #20
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Originally Posted by The Inflicted View Post
I haven't done the kind of high-speed camera research that Tom Kaye did with a glass barrel, but I would think that the paintball begins to decelerate as soon as it's done accelerating during the initial trip down the control bore and hit the first porting. If you're trying to chronograph the same gun with an 8" barrel and a 20" barrel, and you measure both times by placing the barrel's tip on the chrono, the 20" barrel is going to take more gas to get up to the same speed simply because the ball would have needed to accelerate beyond its muzzle velocity at some point in the middle of the barrel in order to still be at 300fps once it reaches the muzzle.
Which would leave me to believe that in the 20" barrel the ball is still accelerating beyond the 8" acceleration zone. Below 8" the air behind the ball hasn't been allowed to expand to it's maximum to get the ball up to 300 fps. For example, I shot an A5 with about a 4" barrel. I cranked up the velocity adjustment all the way up just to get the ball up to 250 fps. Obviously the barrel wasn't long enough to let it accelerate up to 280 (our field limit) fps.

I feel, like you do, that the ball is accelerated up to a higher speed inside the barrel so that once it stops accelerating it still exits the barrel at 300 fps (or whatever the field limit is). I just wonder if that means at 8" the ball is traveling faster but still stops accelerating at that point or if it is moving faster at 8" but continues to accelerate past 8"?

I would hazard to say that the extra barrel length beyond the optimal point of acceleration adds drag such that the ball is slowing down faster than it would in mid-air, but I'm not certain. Whether there are more complex pneumatic forces at work here, I don't know.

I really am going to have to experiment with this. I have a couple barrels I can use to try this out and see what happens.
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