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Old 06-23-2014, 06:37 PM #589
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I just want to say that one time i saw a kid with a dm13 trying to screw co2 into it! I ran over and stopped the kid before he did it but i was loling so hard!
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:14 AM #590
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Originally Posted by mattdk82692 View Post
its not about the gear as so much as certain kids attitudes some are greatful others arent.
And the kids that just get every piece of gear they want, because mommy and daddy have tons of money usually tend to mistreat there gear. Because they figure that they will just get a new one if it breaks.
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:44 AM #591
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Originally Posted by Tombstone82 View Post
And the kids that just get every piece of gear they want, because mommy and daddy have tons of money usually tend to mistreat there gear. Because they figure that they will just get a new one if it breaks.
As do adults with enough disposable income to be able to buy what they want when they want. That sort of "attitude" is not at all reserved for spoiled little kids.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:21 PM #592
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I'm not sure this issue has anything to do with jealousy. That is an easy go-to answer, but there is little evidence to support it. After all, no one begrudges the highly skilled player their expensive gear if that is what they choose to use.

The issue seems to be one of the classic 'pearls before swine' situation. It isn't the high dollar gear, or the fact that the kid has it. If Mommy and Daddy want to buy that stuff for their child, that is their business. But as the observers in this situation, our business involves justice and juxtaposition.

With respect to the latter, all good comedy, as well as every obscenity, involves the placing together of improperly matched things. Think of the people who do those ghastly child beauty pageants. There is something both laughable and obscene about the juxtaposition of physical immaturity and naivete with all the trappings of adulthood and experience. In the same way, seeing a green kid outfitted like a seasoned pro is simply absurd. Absurd, and wrong.

With respect to the former, there is a kind of elemental injustice in giving the uninitiated all the rewards of initiation. Think of a wealthy CEO who gives his kid, fresh out of high school, a cushy high-ranking position in the company. Is the father able to give his son anything he wants? Certainly. That is his prerogative as a parent. But at the same time, because the kid has not earned the right to sit at that desk, no one will ever respect him, because he cannot possibly understand how to properly value the position, its responsibilities, its employees, and the salary it merits. The person who has worked their way up from the bottom might look the same, and get paid the same, but there is a planetary difference between the two and hence, we respect the one who earned it and disrespect the son who didn't, even if we understand and respect the father's right to gift the position.

Money and trinkets can be gotten by any means. But respect can only be gotten by being earned. And that is why we can on the one hand have complete respect for the fact that some kids are simply handed expensive gear, and on the other hand, have complete disrespect for the kids who get it that way.

Both attitudes are completely right and proper, at the same time.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:04 PM #593
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"....there is a kind of elemental injustice in giving the uninitiated all the rewards of initiation."

Okay Bane. Sorry...had to lol

But seriously though, you cannot discount the very real and present issue of jealousy. As much as you may try to explain the philosophy of earned vs gifted you can't remove that fact that the negative feelings rooted in jealousy. The feeling "we earned and he was given". No one cares if the given gear is low end and he mistreats it. Because that gear is unwanted or easily attainable. But a high end marker that we like and either can't afford or aren't willing to pay for.....we aren't at all at ease with seeing them possess and mistreat it. Why? The old green monster within us.

People don't like to be classified but certain words. Jealous(y) is definitely one of them. So we will rationalize it and explain it away. Formulate whatever reason we can come up with to put us at ease with our feelings. But no amount of wordplay changes what it is......jealousy.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:18 PM #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menace_pbn View Post
I'm not sure this issue has anything to do with jealousy. That is an easy go-to answer, but there is little evidence to support it. After all, no one begrudges the highly skilled player their expensive gear if that is what they choose to use.

The issue seems to be one of the classic 'pearls before swine' situation. It isn't the high dollar gear, or the fact that the kid has it. If Mommy and Daddy want to buy that stuff for their child, that is their business. But as the observers in this situation, our business involves justice and juxtaposition.

With respect to the latter, all good comedy, as well as every obscenity, involves the placing together of improperly matched things. Think of the people who do those ghastly child beauty pageants. There is something both laughable and obscene about the juxtaposition of physical immaturity and naivete with all the trappings of adulthood and experience. In the same way, seeing a green kid outfitted like a seasoned pro is simply absurd. Absurd, and wrong.

With respect to the former, there is a kind of elemental injustice in giving the uninitiated all the rewards of initiation. Think of a wealthy CEO who gives his kid, fresh out of high school, a cushy high-ranking position in the company. Is the father able to give his son anything he wants? Certainly. That is his prerogative as a parent. But at the same time, because the kid has not earned the right to sit at that desk, no one will ever respect him, because he cannot possibly understand how to properly value the position, its responsibilities, its employees, and the salary it merits. The person who has worked their way up from the bottom might look the same, and get paid the same, but there is a planetary difference between the two and hence, we respect the one who earned it and disrespect the son who didn't, even if we understand and respect the father's right to gift the position.

Money and trinkets can be gotten by any means. But respect can only be gotten by being earned. And that is why we can on the one hand have complete respect for the fact that some kids are simply handed expensive gear, and on the other hand, have complete disrespect for the kids who get it that way.

Both attitudes are completely right and proper, at the same time.
Now that explaination I can live with!!!
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:17 AM #595
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Quote:
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.... you cannot discount the very real and present issue of jealousy. As much as you may try to explain the philosophy of earned vs gifted you can't remove that fact that the negative feelings rooted in jealousy. The feeling "we earned and he was given". No one cares if the given gear is low end and he mistreats it. Because that gear is unwanted or easily attainable. But a high end marker that we like and either can't afford or aren't willing to pay for.....we aren't at all at ease with seeing them possess and mistreat it. Why? The old green monster within us.

People don't like to be classified but certain words. Jealous(y) is definitely one of them. So we will rationalize it and explain it away. Formulate whatever reason we can come up with to put us at ease with our feelings. But no amount of wordplay changes what it is......jealousy.

A thing is neither defined nor substantiated by force of repetition.


You seem to assume that everyone is jealous, a curious position. Certainly jealousy is a factor for some. But if simple jealousy were the driving motivation, then it would make no discrimination by reason of (in)justice or anything else, and all persons with better stuff would be equally despised, regardless of who they are or how they got it. But this is clearly not the case. Ergo, the motive is something other than neat jealousy. And if the element of jealousy does discriminate by reason of injustice, then clearly the element of injustice is actually the driving force. Indeed, your 'green monster' example of mistreating expensive gear is a perfect example of perceived injustice, not jealousy. Again, I do not dispute that some folk are jealous. My claim is that jealousy is not the prime motivator in most cases.

And to your point about abuse of inexpensive gear, I (and many others) do find this offensive. The abuse of any gift, however small, is deeply offensive. But it is perhaps less offensive than the abuse of an expensive gift. Indeed, that is why our parents usually give us lesser things to begin with, so that we can learn to respect them. Then, when we are given (or when we earn) better things, we will know to respect them even more. That is kind of the point here.

When I see a foolish kid with gear he clearly does not understand or appreciate, my first thought is not that I wish I had his stuff. That would be jealousy. And if I had that motivation, I would just as soon feel it when I saw an experienced player with the very same gear. My thought is rather that it is a ridiculous offense that this kid has this stuff for which he has no real appreciation. I don't want the kid's stuff. I have my own stuff. It is simply annoying that nice stuff, which should be treated nicely, should have fallen into the hands of a nincompoop, and thus be wasted of its proper potential.

As for classification, words are all we have. If people don't like the words by which they are classified, then either the words are incorrect, or the people are.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:57 PM #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menace_pbn View Post
A thing is neither defined nor substantiated by force of repetition. You seem to assume that everyone is jealous, a curious position. Certainly jealousy is a factor for some. But if simple jealousy were the driving motivation, then it would make no discrimination by reason of (in)justice or anything else, and all persons with better stuff would be equally despised, regardless of who they are or how they got it. But this is clearly not the case. Ergo, the motive is something other than neat jealousy. And if the element of jealousy does discriminate by reason of injustice, then clearly the element of injustice is actually the driving force. Indeed, your 'green monster' example of mistreating expensive gear is a perfect example of perceived injustice, not jealousy. Again, I do not dispute that some folk are jealous. My claim is that jealousy is not the prime motivator in most cases. And to your point about abuse of inexpensive gear, I (and many others) do find this offensive. The abuse of any gift, however small, is deeply offensive. But it is perhaps less offensive than the abuse of an expensive gift. Indeed, that is why our parents usually give us lesser things to begin with, so that we can learn to respect them. Then, when we are given (or when we earn) better things, we will know to respect them even more. That is kind of the point here. When I see a foolish kid with gear he clearly does not understand or appreciate, my first thought is not that I wish I had his stuff. That would be jealousy. And if I had that motivation, I would just as soon feel it when I saw an experienced player with the very same gear. My thought is rather that it is a ridiculous offense that this kid has this stuff for which he has no real appreciation. I don't want the kid's stuff. I have my own stuff. It is simply annoying that nice stuff, which should be treated nicely, should have fallen into the hands of a nincompoop, and thus be wasted of its proper potential. As for classification, words are all we have. If people don't like the words by which they are classified, then either the words are incorrect, or the people are.
With your last 2 posts in this thread, you have just become my single favorite poster of anyone I have read on this site since I first joined in 2001. I have nothing to add at all because you have so eloquently ended this discussion in my opinion .
Bravo.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:55 PM #597
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Thank you; I am honored and humbled.

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Old 06-27-2014, 10:40 PM #598
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Menace, that was by far the most eloquent of responses. Touche' sir.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:42 PM #599
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Yea I'm actually blown away by it . It's so rare that someone posts something that wins by being utterly unarguably correct and also is incredibly interesting all at the same time .
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:45 PM #600
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"But if simple jealousy were the driving motivation, then it would make no discrimination by reason of (in)justice or anything else, and all persons with better stuff would be equally despised, regardless of who they are or how they got it."

Aahhh but who is to say they/we aren't? Who is to say that people aren't jealous of the adult with the brand new high end marker? I believe the sight of a young kid with expensive gear just creates a much stronger feeling. One might be jealous of me walking onto a field with a new (insert high end marker) that was just released recently. But seeing that I am a working adult the feeling may not reach that same magnitude.

And while I do not fully agree, I do understand what you are saying about mistreatment. It is, however, my perception that people generally draw far more offense to the sight of expensive equipment being mistreated than they do inexpensive. I can honestly say that I have almost never seen anyone bat an eye at the sight of low end equipment being mistreated. However, I've had a virtually brand new Planet Eclipse SL8r fall off a set of bleachers to the dirt. Refs and players gasped and reacted like I was some bad father who had just dropped his child onto a cement street. Now yes I did say "almost never". There are always those, as you pointed out, that do not like to see the mistreatment of any piece of equipment. But I truly believe you all are in the minority.

Lastly, whilst I respect your opinion I must still respectfully disagree. True not everyone is merely jealous but I believe this very thread is indication of just how much of a role jealousy is playing. Often there is comments of "When I was that age all I could afford was...", "Must be nice to have rich parents", "I have/had to save my own money to get (insert gun). Nobody would just buy me a....", "They should have to earn the right to play with a...." and so on. These sort of comments reek of jealousy to me and they are the exact type of comments I most often see littering threads like these.
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:16 AM #601
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Soul06 if you have such a problem with these "type" of posts/threads why do you read them?
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:19 AM #602
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Yea I'm actually blown away by it . It's so rare that someone posts something that wins by being utterly unarguably correct and also is incredibly interesting all at the same time .
How come stuff like what was posted always sounds better coming from a nuetral party?
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:14 AM #603
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Because without a bias built into the response you can read it without feeling defensive from either direction .
He didn't argue right or wrong , just what "is"
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:23 PM #604
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Soul06 if you have such a problem with these "type" of posts/threads why do you read them?
Because I disagree with an opinion or idea means that I should remain away from it? I'm not entitled to present my opinion to the conversation?
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Old 06-29-2014, 05:58 AM #605
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Because I disagree with an opinion or idea means that I should remain away from it? I'm not entitled to present my opinion to the conversation?
I didn't say that now did I? And I didn't say that you were not entitled to present your opinions.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:18 PM #606
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You want other players to claim your eliminations. If they find out that you eliminated every single one of them, you are not playing anymore.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:41 PM #607
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As long as they're out there playing and having fun, I don't mind. I play other sports besides paintball on both a rec and competitive level. I see folks with nice stuff all the time who can't or don't play up to the gear they are using. Perhaps mom, pops or gramps bought them all that stuff, or it's a darned hard earned setup that's been a long time coming. I've worked my butt off for my USED Geo 2, and the 3.1 was already old news lol.

We all judge or have been judged. As soon as that first rope flies by your head, politics and all that other honky just flies out the window. Those next 2-5 minutes on the field will tell all we need to know about a player, and what happens when we all walk off the field. Either "good game, nice shooting! You flank so fast, I didn't see you!" or a bunch of lame excuses that you had just "bonus balled" them when they clearly were playing PSP ramping.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:03 AM #608
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I can agree...but I'm spoiled. I'm 13 and I've went through about 5 guns already, but I love paintball, respect my equipment, and try to get better. Sportsmanship goes a long way also.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:36 AM #609
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I saw a kid with a Luxe and didn't know how to turn it on I lold hard.
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