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Old 04-14-2014, 03:00 PM #22
andrewcooke93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Slightly Stoopid_ View Post
yes they should b checking and not letting expired tanks on the field but check before the match not mid point.... and give the tank back... u cant just keep it and hold it for 100 dollar ransom
I completely agree that keeping our tanks because of something the rulebook says is technically stealing. Rulebooks can only assert penalties and potential bans. MY possessions are MINE, is it not illegal to take it and tell me I have to buy it back?
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:05 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcooke93 View Post
My tank was taken also and it was one of the DXS tanks from 2006, well out of hydro I'm aware, but still in perfect condition and still a better tank than many of the new ones out there today. I'm a college kid that has to eat ramen noodles because I have no money and I cannot afford another tank-- I could have afforded to rehydro it, if given the chance... a penalty and holding the tank until after the event would have been sufficient. Last time I checked, there was no press release stating that you guys would be stealing our tanks if not in hydro this year. I thought the NCPA was supposed to help college kids play paintball? How does stealing our equipment because it is out of date fit into your business values? I've never seen this rule enforced in the way you guys handled it, and it is pretty obvious what is going on here between you and the tank manufacturers. Is a penalty and holding it until the event is over not enough?
Anyone that violates the hydro rule can have their tank back after they pay the $100 fine. We dont want them
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:07 PM #24
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give tank back and dont let them play ncpa till 100 fine is paid then .... u cant keep ppls property
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:07 PM #25
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Originally Posted by Ryan@CPX View Post
thats a penalty.
Like Ryan said
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:15 PM #26
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9.6.1.3. All constant air and CO2 tanks must have a DOT stamp, and must be within the DOT-certified hydro-testing certification date. Players using uncertified or out-of-date tanks will be fined $100 and receive a major penalty.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:23 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcooke93 View Post
My tank was taken also and it was one of the DXS tanks from 2006, well out of hydro I'm aware, but still in perfect condition and still a better tank than many of the new ones out there today. I'm a college kid that has to eat ramen noodles because I have no money and I cannot afford another tank-- I could have afforded to rehydro it, if given the chance... a penalty and holding the tank until after the event would have been sufficient. Last time I checked, there was no press release stating that you guys would be stealing our tanks if not in hydro this year. I thought the NCPA was supposed to help college kids play paintball? How does stealing our equipment because it is out of date fit into your business values? I've never seen this rule enforced in the way you guys handled it, and it is pretty obvious what is going on here between you and the tank manufacturers. Is a penalty and holding it until the event is over not enough?
This is straight up the dumbest post I have ever read in my life


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Old 04-14-2014, 03:35 PM #28
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Originally Posted by DarkickThis View Post
This is exactly how this point was played:

After a little bit into the point, it was down to a 2v1 situation. Then, my player shot the last guy, but got a minor because he was already hit in the pod pack but didn't know it. The other team's player walks of the field (out of bounds) and my 2nd player gets pulled off the field. In addition, the time stops.

In this situation it is suppose to be a draw, because the time stop, which indicates no active players. But instead, the ref said it was the other teams point???

Not to mention, the Blue Devils played a point against that same team later on, and they got a major penalty. The player that got assigned that major asked the ref to show him where he got shot. AND THE REF COULDN'T DO IT.

Like c'mon NCPA, let's get some refs that know what they are doing. I felt that the refs called the other team winning because the refs wanted to leave. The ref that looked in his late 30s-40 and with trucker-look definitely didn't look happy and didn't make the right calls at all.

If refs can't make right calls or justify why certain calls were made, why would we want to come back? Or why would any team want to compete in this league?
For the first situation, I could understand a referee giving the point to the other team because the "1" would not have walked off had he not been shot by a dirty player. If a player runs you down and you get out before seeing the penalty thrown, you'd be furious if you didn't get the point because you went out of bounds after you were hit.

Not being able to show the hit after the dust has settled behind a major is not at all proof of a bad call. There are plenty of times the hit manages to disappear before that talk, be it intentional or unintentional.

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You know how experienced a ref is by how many previous tourneys they've reffed. And there is something we can do. We can get the NCPA to get new, better refs for next year's Nationals. To do that, we need as many separate accounts as possible from as many teams as possible of the bull**** calls by the refs.

edit: I see you're from NC State. You were one of, maybe the only team, that had bad calls made in favor of you, so you're not defending the refs from an objective point-of-view.
I hate to burst your bubble, but I recognized quite a few PSP refs on every field, many of which were from D1/Challenger crews or had several seasons under their belt in lower divisions. Objectively speaking, I think the majority of problems came from the filler refs that were not drawn from the PSP. Most, if not all of the PSP refs working on every field were guys I'd hire in a heartbeat if it were my decision. Just about every questionable call I saw came from somebody I didn't recognize (translation: not PSP ref).

The only major mistake I saw from refs, and this was almost exclusively the non-PSP guys, is ignoring the team up on bodies in 2 on 1's, 3 on 1's, etc. PSP refs know not to zone in on the last guy alive waiting for the hit, because more often than not it will be the players coming at him that cheat. I'll admit I was one of the people that suffered for this one, but it did happen to other teams I have no affiliation with as well. Unfortunately a well deserved major could completely reverse the outcome of a game in this context, but at least it's something that can be fixed very easily for future seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Slightly Stoopid_ View Post
yes they should b checking and not letting expired tanks on the field but check before the match not mid point.... and give the tank back... u cant just keep it and hold it for 100 dollar ransom
There's no excuse for bringing an out of hydro tank onto the field. Every player knows they need a tank in hydro and every player can easily check the date on theirs. If you borrow a spare, that should be the first thing you look at.

Last edited by eforce : 04-14-2014 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:50 PM #29
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yes we understand that there should be penalties for expired tanks that is not the issue... the issue is in the way they are enforcing this penalty.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:57 PM #30
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Originally Posted by _Slightly Stoopid_ View Post
yes we understand that there should be penalties for expired tanks that is not the issue... the issue is that the way they are enforcing this penalty can not b legal.
You may want to look up the DOT fines for filling expired tanks before reaching that conclusion.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:30 PM #31
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Reffing is never going to be perfect, were all human and make mistakes, but if your going to have a national event, why not have experienced refs that know what there doing?
We had experienced refs who know what they are doing. A split of seasoned PSP refs (including refs from the Pro PSP fields) and refs with several PSP regional level affiliate events under their belt, all recruited and run by the PSP head of officiating. We actually turned away three fields worth of refs due to the number of qualified refs who wanted to ref the event vs. the number of positions we had available.

We played thousands if points over the course of the weekend, so I'm sure there were some calls that were made that not everyone agreed with. That's unfortunately the nature of officiated competitive sports.

Reffing is something I take very seriously. NCPA pays refs more than pretty much any series other than PSP, and the majority of refs at the event were PSP refs (and Pro-level PSP refs at that) plus PSP-certified refs. We literally turned down fields-worth of refs due to lack of positions. I watched a lot of games this weekend. I'm not going to say every call was perfect, but I do sincerely believe teams won or lost based on their play on the field.

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Old 04-14-2014, 06:31 PM #32
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For the first situation, I could understand a referee giving the point to the other team because the "1" would not have walked off had he not been shot by a dirty player.
If the refs wanted to be picky about the rules, they should abide by all and not by a select few. The player should not be out of bounds if he is not out, and he should have hung the flag if he was still "active". Both of which he did not do. With no "active" players on the field or a flag hang, the game should have resulted in a tie, the 3rd point would have been played, and this entire conflict wouldn't have happened. The refs had time to correct the call that was made after we confronted them, but they didn't want to own up to their mistake. Unfair calls were being made several times throughout this event. If you want proof, read the other posts in this thread. Also, the refs didn't have to be rude when we confronted them, that was completely unnecessary.

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Not being able to show the hit after the dust has settled behind a major is not at all proof of a bad call. There are plenty of times the hit manages to disappear before that talk, be it intentional or unintentional.
True, but the opposite is true as well. A player knowing that he did not get shot and a ref pulls him out, is a bad call.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:34 PM #33
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I completely agree that keeping our tanks because of something the rulebook says is technically stealing. Rulebooks can only assert penalties and potential bans. MY possessions are MINE, is it not illegal to take it and tell me I have to buy it back?
It's absolutely legal. We publish a rulebook that you agree to abide by as a participant. If you don't like the rulebook, don't participate.

That said, if you were one of the three people we took tanks from this weekend and you would like it back, we will happily send it to you (after removing the reg since shipping an unhydroed tank IS illegal), but you won't play an NCPA or APPA-sanctioned event until you pay the fine.

If the fine bothers you, don't bring unhydroed tanks to NCPA events. It is a SERIOUS safety issue and we have ABSOLUTELY no patience for people who would put others' safety in danger.

If you're still upset, I am happy to refer you to the DOT, where the fine for filling a tank out of hydrotest date is $10,000.

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Old 04-14-2014, 06:39 PM #34
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UCF made it to the finals at their home field with local refs, anyone else notice this? Not saying they are a quality team but i saw some obvious hits in earlier games go unnoticed by refs. They deserved the championship but refs should be unbiased. Should be interesting to see the final on May 17
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:40 PM #35
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Originally Posted by DarkickThis View Post
This is exactly how this point was played:

After a little bit into the point, it was down to a 2v1 situation. Then, my player shot the last guy, but got a minor because he was already hit in the pod pack but didn't know it. The other team's player walks of the field (out of bounds) and my 2nd player gets pulled off the field. In addition, the time stops.

In this situation it is suppose to be a draw, because the time stop, which indicates no active players. But instead, the ref said it was the other teams point???

Not to mention, the Blue Devils played a point against that same team later on, and they got a major penalty. The player that got assigned that major asked the ref to show him where he got shot. AND THE REF COULDN'T DO IT.

Like c'mon NCPA, let's get some refs that know what they are doing. I felt that the refs called the other team winning because the refs wanted to leave. The ref that looked in his late 30s-40 and with trucker-look definitely didn't look happy and didn't make the right calls at all.

If refs can't make right calls or justify why certain calls were made, why would we want to come back? Or why would any team want to compete in this league?
Not sure if answered yet:

IF the college rules follow the PSP rules then when a penalty causes all of your players to be removed then the other team scores a point.

So in your situation during the 2v1, your teammate got a penalty and it removed the last guy on your team, therefore, the other team scores a point.

I think that was one of the reasons the rule was changed last year and to eliminate the 60/90 second automatic point situation.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:46 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarface478 View Post
UCF made it to the finals at their home field with local refs, anyone else notice this? Not saying they are a quality team but i saw some obvious hits in earlier games go unnoticed by refs. They deserved the championship but refs should be unbiased. Should be interesting to see the final on May 17
The majority of the refs on the TV field were top-level PSP refs. (I'd say all but I'd have to double-check with Marcus, the PSP ultimate, who pulled together all the refs for the event.)

No one would have liked a closer match in the finals more than me. Close matches make for much better television. I think the reality of that match was UCF did a great job going through the middle and UConn had a tough time adjusting to that.

We had a lot of Florida teams, so it shouldn't be surprising that sometimes a Florida team wins. And sometimes they don't. Lots of Florida teams lost matches to non-Florida teams this weekend. And it's pretty obvious UCF came in with a strong squad... their prelim match scores were pretty brutal to their opponents.


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Old 04-14-2014, 07:02 PM #37
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I know almost all of the refs on the tv field are psp pro challenger field refs. I can name 2 that aren't but could be if they wanted to ref psp, but can't because real life obligations.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:18 PM #38
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One of our players in AA on Saturday jumped at another fields whistle, but didn't aim his gun down the field he then proceeded to tag back up on the pole of the start box, he was then pulled because ^Scottyboy101 said the pole of the start box was not "part" of the start box and you had to be touching the physical net? Is this a legit rule? Just curious, because the net moves with the wind and it can be difficult at times to be touching the physical net.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:45 PM #39
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The pole of the starting gate is part the start box. In that specific situation no one should have been pulled.

Edit: I never said the pole wasn't part of the starting gate at all. So I don't appreciate it when words are put in my mouth because I am 100% sure I didn't tell you that. It's simple, if you jump early and point your gun down field your out (shooting or not), but if you keep your gun pointed to the ground and tag back up within 3 seconds of the point starting your fine.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:44 PM #40
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As a player from UCF, we had our fair share of penalties, both major and minor. We even received two majors at once, so I don't see how anything may have been biased. As Chris said, our match scores represent what we brought to the tournament. I don't see that as a result of biased reffing.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:54 PM #41
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Originally Posted by raehl View Post
We had experienced refs who know what they are doing. A split of seasoned PSP refs (including refs from the Pro PSP fields) and refs with several PSP regional level affiliate events under their belt, all recruited and run by the PSP head of officiating. We actually turned away three fields worth of refs due to the number of qualified refs who wanted to ref the event vs. the number of positions we had available.

We played thousands if points over the course of the weekend, so I'm sure there were some calls that were made that not everyone agreed with. That's unfortunately the nature of officiated competitive sports.

Reffing is something I take very seriously. NCPA pays refs more than pretty much any series other than PSP, and the majority of refs at the event were PSP refs (and Pro-level PSP refs at that) plus PSP-certified refs. We literally turned down fields-worth of refs due to lack of positions. I watched a lot of games this weekend. I'm not going to say every call was perfect, but I do sincerely believe teams won or lost based on their play on the field.

- Chris
If PSP reffing standards are so high, why don't you pay them as much as the PSP does? And if you had so many refs to choose from, how did you still manage to get some that weren't PSP-certified, as you're implying?

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...
If you're still upset, I am happy to refer you to the DOT, where the fine for filling a tank out of hydrotest date is $10,000.

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Why do you feel the need to threaten a college student with fines to get him to stop complaining?

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The majority of the refs on the TV field were top-level PSP refs. (I'd say all but I'd have to double-check with Marcus, the PSP ultimate, who pulled together all the refs for the event.)
...
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Originally Posted by Scottyboy101 View Post
I know almost all of the refs on the tv field are psp pro challenger field refs. I can name 2 that aren't but could be if they wanted to ref psp, but can't because real life obligations.
I'd imagine you'd put your good refs on the single A field that's broadcasted so you don't have Matty Marshall pointing out the bad calls to the public.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:07 PM #42
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I know as a psp ref when they go to an event the last thing on there mind is how can I benefit a local team or how can I help some one I know. I know for a fact that some refs We're moved from the field they were on to another field because they went to the school that was playing. As a ref you have to make split second decisions based on what you see, judgment calls. You don't always get them right but most of the times you do unfortunately there is always a team that is happy with the call and one that is not. I know it sounds Cle shay to say but that's part of the game. As a ref the worst thing I can due is make a bad call that effects the out come of the game and I can only speak for my self , when I due it eats me up, with that being given said know this that every time I hit the field wearing that jersey I give it everything I have. I truly believe I'm in the majority not the minority. Last thing I want to say is thank you to all the teams that made my job easy, those teams who pulled themselves out when hit and if they had a question about a hit they did not blow up they asked why ( when the point was over) and when they received the answer they excepted it and moved on. Those teams I tip my hat too.
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