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Old 04-08-2014, 11:01 AM #43
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Originally Posted by automagsrule View Post
If God is not the source of our ethical obligations, what is?
We are. We always have been the source of ethics, morality etc. It is people as a society that define what is right and wrong. We have different variations because there are many different cultures around the world. Courses in sociology and cultural anthropology would be helpful in seeing how different cultures and societies have come to define morality and ethics and ultimatly would is considered illegal and so forth.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:18 AM #44
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You dont think there is a possibility that there is a god? I understand agnostic, but atheist is just stubborn and closed minded. You know there is a chance god exists.
Please read some of my earlier posts in this thread. Atheism is not a 100% certainty that god does not exist (i know thats a double negative but i didnt want to take the time to phrase it another way).

Let me put it to you this way. If someone asks me "Do you think God or Gods exist?" My answer is, no i dont think they exist. That doesnt mean that it is impossible for them to exist, i just dont think there is any evidence to suggest that they do. My mind can be changed and i am open minded to the possiblity of a diety existing. If am i presented with evidence of such a being my view would change. This is much different from those that are religious that claim with 100% certainty that they know god exists...not all religious people claim this but i have met many who do.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:25 AM #45
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^This. Look, there either is a god, or there isn't. Thankfully, we have the Bible to know Him through, but even leaving this proof aside, It's essentially a 50/50 chance, and personally, I rather not gamble with my salvation!

I pray that you someday let go of whatever it is that is keeping you from loving Him. Remember man, Jesus SAVES!
Pascals wager isnt a good reason to believe in a diety. Even if that was all you would base the belief on you would then have to equally believe in all the gods that people have ever come up with just to hedge your bets.

The bible has proven to be an inaccruate text and as far as i know it was written by men and then re-written, edited, translated many times over.

You are portraying my lack of belief as if i know a god exists but am pretending otherwise...this is not the case. I have not been presented with any evidence of any god existing, much less the one you believe in. In a way, we are both atheists, i just belief in one less god that you do.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:02 PM #46
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I cannot speak for all atheists. As for what I think...I dont think that any god or gods exist....so... if I dont even think gods exist, how could I think they are responsible for placing a homosexual temptation in anyone? Please answer my previous question.
I struggle with original sin and temptation like the rest of us. If it wasn't for God I would fall back into sexual perversion. It's strange that you say you were born heterosexual when the Bible states that one should not lie with a man as with a women meaning the temptation is there for all of us.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:04 PM #47
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Originally Posted by Savage Mikey View Post
We are. We always have been the source of ethics, morality etc. It is people as a society that define what is right and wrong. We have different variations because there are many different cultures around the world. Courses in sociology and cultural anthropology would be helpful in seeing how different cultures and societies have come to define morality and ethics and ultimatly would is considered illegal and so forth.
Morality is a social construct? So if a society deems it morally justifiable to commit some act of atrocity, lets say genocide, then it is?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:06 PM #48
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If you have questions concerning evolution please take a look at the website http://www.talkorigins.org

It will give you all the basic information plus give references on where to find more information. There is frankly too much information to cover to put it in this format.
I'm not gonna read that liberal bull****. Lies and indoctrination.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:17 PM #49
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In a way, we are both atheists, i just belief in one less god that you do.
Sorry but no. An honest look at the religious believer will reveal a subjective but personal religious experience being professed where the person has some sort of contact with the divine. I don't really care to debate whether it's hoaxy or not, just that, it's not a matter of rejecting all other Gods so much as embracing what you've experienced.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:21 PM #50
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I struggle with original sin and temptation like the rest of us. If it wasn't for God I would fall back into sexual perversion. It's strange that you say you were born heterosexual when the Bible states that one should not lie with a man as with a women meaning the temptation is there for all of us.
How do you know that god is what is responsible for keeping you from sexual perversion? Do you think that there could be another explantion?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:22 PM #51
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He also gave us the Koran, just saying. Maybe you should reconsider.
While God may have given life to those who wrote the crayon, as I call it lol, it can't be said that He actually gave it to us. It exists due to the folly of man, and was not divinely inspired like the Bible was. Maybe you should study up a bit more on history!
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Pascals wager isnt a good reason to believe in a diety. Even if that was all you would base the belief on you would then have to equally believe in all the gods that people have ever come up with just to hedge your bets.

The bible has proven to be an inaccruate text and as far as i know it was written by men and then re-written, edited, translated many times over.

You are portraying my lack of belief as if i know a god exists but am pretending otherwise...this is not the case. I have not been presented with any evidence of any god existing, much less the one you believe in. In a way, we are both atheists, i just belief in one less god that you do.
Pshh, anytime you atheists come across logical philosophy you don't like, you automatically dismiss it because it doesn't mesh with your faith. And to counter your point, the other gods of the past were worshipped by primitive idiots. We are much more advanced in intellect now, and Christianity is still here! (Despite Obama's best efforts)

Bottom line is that if you don't accept Jesus as your savior, you don't get saved. I may not always be a good man, but I am a man of God, and I give the almighty the fearful respect and worship that he deserves!

God is love! And yes! (As mentioned once already), God is not dead!

Side note: Have you seen it yet? The movie fits in really well with this discussion in this thread about how Christians today are dealing with persecution in academia by indoctrinated liberal sexularists. Well worth the watch, and very inspiring!
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:31 PM #52
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Morality is a social construct? So if a society deems it morally justifiable to commit some act of atrocity, lets say genocide, then it is?
Yes, morality is determined by the culture you are raised in and changes overtime. I am not saying that whatever a culture comes up with as being moral would agree with what I would consider moral so no I would not say that genocide is moraly correct to me and i have never needed a supernatural power or diety to tell me genocide is wrong.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:34 PM #53
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I'm not gonna read that liberal bull****. Lies and indoctrination.
Thats interesting. If you have not read about it or studied it, how do you know that it is lies or indoctrination?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:44 PM #54
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Martianchurch, I never knew that the only thing that kept you from sucking the hotdog was god!

For me, I just don't find myself attracted to other men anymore than I find myself attracted to my dog. The attraction just isn't there... it has nothing to do with god.

I'm faithful to my wife because I love her, not because an imaginary deity keeps me from straying. That, and because she's really the only woman that'll put up with my crap!
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:47 PM #55
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How do you know that god is what is responsible for keeping you from sexual perversion? Do you think that there could be another explantion?
How do you know your disbelief in God(s) and your morals aren't merely cultural artifacts of the time period you were born into and in no way represent conclusions drawn by yourself independent of these influences?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:47 PM #56
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Sorry but no. An honest look at the religious believer will reveal a subjective but personal religious experience being professed where the person has some sort of contact with the divine. I don't really care to debate whether it's hoaxy or not, just that, it's not a matter of rejecting all other Gods so much as embracing what you've experienced.
Do you think what some people experience could have other explanations? Not just different gods being responsible but perhaps explanations that do not have anything to do with dieties?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:47 PM #57
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Why do you think you are compelled to hate God so much?
Atheists can't hate something that doesn't exist. Otherwise, I could accuse you of hating the Tooth Fairy.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:50 PM #58
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Do you think what some people experience could have other explanations? Not just different gods being responsible but perhaps explanations that do not have anything to do with dieties?
It doesn't matter since it's nearly impossible to varify through empirical means.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:55 PM #59
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Thats interesting. If you have not read about it or studied it, how do you know that it is lies or indoctrination?
Because Obama said it and he is a LIEbral. You damn atheists are all just trying to destroy America aren't you.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:03 PM #60
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While God may have given life to those who wrote the crayon, as I call it lol, it can't be said that He actually gave it to us. It exists due to the folly of man, and was not divinely inspired like the Bible was. Maybe you should study up a bit more on history!


Pshh, anytime you atheists come across logical philosophy you don't like, you automatically dismiss it because it doesn't mesh with your faith. And to counter your point, the other gods of the past were worshipped by primitive idiots. We are much more advanced in intellect now, and Christianity is still here! (Despite Obama's best efforts)

I dont have a faith. The good thing about logic is that it doesnt rely on people liking it or not to be true or false. Pascals wager fails because it isnt logically correct and many religous theologians have come to the same conclusion. If you think god exists and knows your mind...wouldnt that be a very wishy washy reason to give for believing...well i wasnt really sure either way so i just though id cover by bases...its not a very genuine reason for belief, and you know that.

Bottom line is that if you don't accept Jesus as your savior, you don't get saved. I may not always be a good man, but I am a man of God, and I give the almighty the fearful respect and worship that he deserves!

Thats a bold statement and not only is it at odds with what many others believe on other religions or no religions but its even at odds with what i have heard other christians say. How do you know you are correct? Could other religons maybe be right? Are you really fearful of god? That doesnt sound like a healthy relationship to have...it sounds more like slavery, a slavery you could never get out of...even in death.

God is love! And yes! (As mentioned once already), God is not dead!
If god is love, why are you so affraid of him?

Side note: Have you seen it yet? The movie fits in really well with this discussion in this thread about how Christians today are dealing with persecution in academia by indoctrinated liberal sexularists. Well worth the watch, and very inspiring!
Can you exaplin to me how christians are being persecuted today? Please also explain what you think the term persecuted means. Not a text book definition but how you define it.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:13 PM #61
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It doesn't matter since it's nearly impossible to varify through empirical means.
Whether it matters or not i guess is up to the person or someone else that wants to know about the experience. What if someone has a "religious experience" and afterwards is convinced they must kill another person. Would it matter then? And if so is it only because of the actions they are taking after?
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:18 PM #62
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Whether it matters or not i guess is up to the person or someone else that wants to know about the experience. What if someone has a "religious experience" and afterwards is convinced they must kill another person. Would it matter then? And if so is it only because of the actions they are taking after?
That's an entirely different question than what you originally asked. You asked whether or not the religious experience has explanations other then actual contact with the divine. I reply that the question is irrelevant because it can't be investigated empirically.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:21 PM #63
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Because Obama said it and he is a LIEbral. You damn atheists are all just trying to destroy America aren't you.
1. Wow
2. No, I dont want to destroy America and I dont know of any atheits that do. In fact I spent ten years of my life serving my country.
3. I do not agree with our current president on a number of points, religion being one of them considering he is a Christian. This really isnt a politcal thread, if you want to bash any political leaders please do so on another thread.
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