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Old 03-15-2014, 12:17 PM #43
new ion?
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Looks good, nice to see some real good iterations.

Just curious why your dump chamber is so far away from the breech? You're losing efficiency due to pre-expansion.

You could easily shorten that up.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:15 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new ion? View Post
Looks good, nice to see some real good iterations.

Just curious why your dump chamber is so far away from the breech? You're losing efficiency due to pre-expansion.

You could easily shorten that up.
My guess is he just conformed it to fit the cuts already in the body (I'm not even positive what a dump chamber is though).


I'm loving it so far. How far do you plan on taking it? Centerfeed is definitely an improvement if you plan on shooting fast. The stock detent sucks ime too, and some people have put shocker detents in. Putting on a different/custom trigger frame is also worth considering because it's such a jam in there to try to fit the board, noid, and battery - plus it would give you a better trigger.
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Last edited by Prea : 03-15-2014 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:21 PM #45
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Yeah, just from the spacing of the Tippmann body there's only so much you can do about the location of the valve.
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:07 PM #46
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:29 PM #47
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Originally Posted by new ion? View Post
Looks good, nice to see some real good iterations.

Just curious why your dump chamber is so far away from the breech? You're losing efficiency due to pre-expansion.

You could easily shorten that up.
I am just trying to make it fit inside of a tippmann body. If I wanted to seriously mod the body I could have the dump chamber right behind the breech, but I don't want to cut that much of the body out.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:12 PM #48
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Originally Posted by Prea View Post
My guess is he just conformed it to fit the cuts already in the body (I'm not even positive what a dump chamber is though).


I'm loving it so far. How far do you plan on taking it? Centerfeed is definitely an improvement if you plan on shooting fast. The stock detent sucks ime too, and some people have put shocker detents in. Putting on a different/custom trigger frame is also worth considering because it's such a jam in there to try to fit the board, noid, and battery - plus it would give you a better trigger.
Probably cebterfeed, eyes, new detents, possibly a custom trigger frame. I don't know what all I'm gonna do just yet.
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:48 AM #49
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can we get an animation of the air passing through the gun so some people (mostly me) know exactly where it is traveling and when the dump chamber opens and closes in the sequence?


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Old 03-20-2014, 07:40 AM #50
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Its laid out almost identically to a luxe. Go check that one.
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:10 AM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new ion? View Post
Its laid out almost identically to a luxe. Go check that one.
Based on the most recent engine image, it appears to be basically a VCOM type engine.

http://paintball.newkamikaze.com/scheme.php?id=35

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Old 03-20-2014, 11:22 AM #52
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Unfortunately, That animation isn't quite right... However, lentyay is trying to animate an Insight in that animation. Insights take the air holding the bolt back, shunt it to the rear of the piston, and vent most there. They don't work like a traditional balanced spool in that sense.

VCOMs on the other hand, work more like Shocker Eigenbolts, in that the firing chamber vents into the piston and blows it back.

Luxe is below:

http://paintball.newkamikaze.com/scheme.php?id=18

Which is almost identical to an Evolve Shocker bolt kit.



Anyways, we're debating over semantics. All of these guns work very similarly.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:16 PM #53
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No, the Vcom engine is not like a Shocker bolt. It is nearly the same as an Insight engine as well, the animation works well enough to show the basics of both engines. The main differences between an Insight and a Vcom is in the solenoid, not the key bolt operation. The most similar bolt is probably a DM bolt, with the sail moved from the front to the rear.

Here is the Vcom engine: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...3#post78200763

The blue and red parts screw together to form the bolt, that's what moves back and forth. There is no bolt guide that sits internally to a hollow bolt.

Edit - Found an even better pic:



Looks familiar, no?

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Old 03-20-2014, 01:32 PM #54
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No, the Vcom engine is not like a Shocker bolt. It is nearly the same as an Insight engine as well, the animation works well enough to show the basics of both engines. The main differences between an Insight and a Vcom is in the solenoid, not the key bolt operation.

Here is the Vcom engine: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...3#post78200763
I was referring to the recock slots in the VCOM when comparing it to the Eigenbolt. Both the Insight and VCOM run off a centre piston/stalk instead of a stationary guide like a Shocker. I agree. Insights are blowforwards and VCOM's are (more, I'm not going to say entirely) balanced, but you are correct, the principle of operation is very similar.

So yes, this marker works more like a VCOM than a Shocker/Luxe, with the centre stalk connecting the piston, dump chamber venting, and bolt head, however Luxes work on the same principle, just with a cenre guide. Luxes/Evolve Shockers are filled from the rear like this setup, and are (more or less) balanced at rest, which is where I was drawing the similarities, since the Luxe platform is arguably more well known to the average person than a VCOM.

You could almost argue that a this is similar to how a DM will vent it's chamber, if the bolt tail were the piston.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:47 PM #55
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The working design is actually more like this. I made the actual spool out of stainless, but I think I am going to try and make it out of aluminum and have the bolt one piece instead of two. Then add a delrin tip.

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Old 03-20-2014, 01:49 PM #56
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There isn't really a functional difference between this version and the version Andrew is posting.. just less structural rigidity.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:34 PM #57
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There isn't really a functional difference between this version and the version Andrew is posting.. just less structural rigidity.
I had to make some structural changes due to tooling limitations. I am going to eventually remake the entire thing out of aluminum, but until I buy a bunch of milling tools, I can't do that.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:57 PM #58
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Any updates on this? The idea is fascinating I want to know more!
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