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Old 01-24-2014, 11:18 PM #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
This is basically what is happening, only instead of PSP trying to evaluate who is a "good" photographer, actual photographers will do it. That seems like a much better process to me - but I'm not a photographer so tell me if I'm mistaken.


It seems some talented photographers who like to come out and shoot photos for the love of the game are saying this change excludes them. I don't think that's the case at all.

There is still going to be plenty of demand for photographers like you. It's just that instead of contacting PSP to buy a photographer pass, you'll contact one of the sanctioned photography companies to get a photographer pass.

This creates efficiency - three photographers working together can cover more teams than three individual photographers working separately. And three photographers from 5 companies spend a lot less money on airfare, hotel, car, food, etc than 40 individual photographers.

For the talented independent photographer, this is a good thing: You don't have to deal with the hassles of booking (and getting payment from) individual teams. You don't have an army of hobbyist photographers just trying to cover their hotel and gas offering their services at cut-throat rates undermining your pricing. And while you were paying $150 for a pass and covering your own expenses, because there is now a smaller number of photographers and more business per photographer, the photography company can take care of those expenses and pay you for your photos.

For the teams, this is a good thing. Now you can book from a company that has three photographers who can be in three places at the same time working as a team to make sure more matches are covered, instead of an individual photographer who has to resolve conflicts between teams because he can only be in one spot. You also have a clear set of established photography companies to choose from when booking photography services - companies with a persistent presence who you can evaluate on things like actually delivering the photos promised in a timely manner. And you can rely on those companies to evaluate the talent of each photographer working for them so you don't have to research every individual photographer you might hire.

For the business-minded photographer, there's an opportunity to create a real company that offers a real service to both independent photographers and teams.

PSP isn't going to make any more money; instead of a lot of people paying a little, a moderate number of people will pay a moderate amount, so it washes out. But PSP will have a smaller number of more experienced photographers producing overall better photo coverage.

With PSP's total fees the same, and the teams paying the same, and less money spent on travel expenses for LOTS of photographers shooting a few teams, the economics are much better for the talented photographers with more teams to shoot.


I want to be clear that this is just my PERSONAL perspective as an outsider to the situation - I obviously don't photograph, don't work for PSP, and don't have anything to do with their media policy. I certainly understand others having a different perspective. But I do think there's a serious opportunity here for talented/professional photographers who want to take advantage of it.


- Chris
Every year the media regulations get worse, every year we (the professionals taking the photos) voice our concerns, and are then given a wall of text from you that changes absolutely nothing. You don't seek advice or input from anyone who is actually out there doing the deed. You certainly don't acknowledge our concerns either.

Our work used to get nationally distributed in print magazines, work from the best paintball photographers the world has ever seen, and you could buy it off the shelf in barnes & noble. There was no media pass bull****, no scapegoat excuses for this and that. We didn't need some big brother on our ***, we were fine and so were the companies we shot for. We were good enough for Facefull, APG and PB2X....so why the hell are you so anally fixed on screwing us over?

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way things were until you decided to make them that way.

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Old 01-24-2014, 11:29 PM #170
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If it aint broke, dont fix it. People play to get pictures for likes on facebook and to be rated AGG or V.S.B!! Now why do we even play anymore???
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:03 AM #171
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Nice. My university's team was planning on playing some of the lower level PSP events and having some video and pictures shot as part of a potential sponsorship deal. I wonder if that would still be on the table in light of this assbackwards press release.

PSP people -> You either don't give a damn or you have realized by now due to the backlash that you screwed up. At this point it's not even about "manning up", but it is about taking responsibility for your blatantly ignorant attempt at a money grab. You owe the photographers an apology. You owe the teams an apology. You owe the whole damn sport that counts on the fledgling paintball media structure to help the sport grow a damnned apology.

It's disgusting. It really is. There's a ton of ANS hate going around because of them continually screwing over customers, manufacturers, and dealers. Many have said they will no longer be dealing with them. While I do not know what success any movement against the PSP would have, it is truly time to start stepping away from them as a legitimate venture and explore other options that are not trying to strangle the life from the small population that plays paintball.

Want to make a comment, etc? You see my sig? Call me and explain to me why you are doing this. I'll listen and I won't interject with how sleezy this appears. :|
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:33 AM #172
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this is ridiculous
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:12 AM #173
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I feel like PSP's media team/coordinator doesn't even understand what a
for-hire photographer has to go through to break a profit for the trip to cover an event.

They may make a grand( +/-) roughly from covering teams at 200 an xball team and something below that for 5 man. The ability one person has to cover an event is roughly 4-5 xball teams. That is being very very generous I feel like for coverage, and while guaranteeing each team has a minimum of 3/4 games covered in prelims. You work hard to document those teams and try to produce the most you can for your clients. While the 5 man teams throw you some cash here and there, with the schedule that is in place for 5man though you never know whose next or what time frame you have to take photos of them. So you can waste ultimately half a day on 5 man and bounce between 2-4 fields(depends on event) to take pictures and deliver subpar photos where its 100000 photos of a breakout. woo hoo. and you dont want to give that to a team, sure they may like it but that says nothing of your work being decent but because you have to lower your standards to accept more people in order to generate a few extra bucks at each event. That would be a terrible thing to do at each event but I bet that some few would try it.

Even if you did that based off of 2013's media pricing you were able to walk away from an event with maybe a couple extra 100 and that would help you buy that extra few SD cards for the next event or that external HDD to dump all your photos onto while you are running around photographing and recording the event. Thats if you were charging teams a competitive rate to everyone else and were able to have a decent cost of traveling.

My opinion for the first event, if the media companies and sponsors and for hire photographers really want to send a message to this disappointing change for 2014. I say just don't document it. Don't give them any revenue from the Media outlets and when the league sees that they are not getting money from media anymore they are going to need to change that. If a business notices a loss from a particular area of their business that is in the thousands per event, don't you think that maybe they will realize that they made a mistake.

Because this doesn't affect the photographers. It affects the teams that are searching for exposure from these NATIONAL EVENTS to help generate sponsor money that the sponsors are paying these teams to help gain exposure at. If a sponsor doesn't see anything from their team at the event how will they know that their money is going somewhere that it may provide a good return but instead no coverage? why waste money? pull money from team. Team drops out.

OR how about the biggest thing that we as sport need to continue to do after all the bull**** of money and cost. WIDENING THE EXPOSURE OF THE SPORT OF PAINTBALL. That should be the most important thing not increasing prices for a pass and i thought maybe PSP would want to continue to bring that. They are on the right path with pbaccess but still we need all the help we can get.

i need to stop rambling my mind about this topic. so many feels.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:45 AM #174
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Doesn't quite make sense. You're receiving less coverage as a league and your sponsors are receiving less coverage on the teams that wear their logos. Don't see how they would support something like this unless they buy up media passes themselves and cover their sponsored teams. Paintball media market itself is already saturated. Pictures are everywhere and if it's too expensive, will just be an afterthought.

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Old 01-25-2014, 08:19 AM #175
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Anyone remember PSP circa 2009? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Those were the days. You had to shoot for one of the established photo companies, got your pass at no cost, and everyone was happy.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:29 AM #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedballer844 View Post
Because if they only have 5 photogs there is a good chance your working for a media company that can cover it or you have a big enough fan base were you will still be profiting or at least breaking even. Less photogs, more profit. I personally could care less to shoot for this league so no sides taken. Smart move, get all the crap off the field and keep it clean/professional.
Again, put a limit. Why charge the price of a beater car? It's just a silly expense. On a side note this why people should not make an imaginary alliances/fanboyism with ANY company. Companies and product creator don't care about you, they care about your money. If you don't like the product or service complain or just not buy the product, PSP being the product.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:11 AM #177
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Quote:
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there ARE other leagues.
Yes there are and frankly I am now investing what is required to shoot for those leagues. Honestly I've shot at two facilities and neither have charged me to be there and I have a third lined up for March, again with no fee. The only requirements from each of these facilities is for me to sign a waiver (industry standard) and give them access to my images for marketing purposes if they wish to use any.

I believe the PSP should have a meeting of the minds with the photographers and say hey guys, we screwed up, but we want to make it right, lets work on this policy. Instead it seems like they would rather bury their heads in the sand and go LALALALALALA WE CANT HEAR YOU!!
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:28 AM #178
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There are so many issues with this strategy it's almost impossible to clearly determine a starting point on what to shred apart first.

Year after year the PSP creates additional regulations on media coverage, but who are they talking to for their insight? Who is providing the statistics on what the average earnings are for an event?

Who are the influences that are driving these regulations?

How hard is it to offer us a simple explanation as to how this result was derived?

Rather than letting this turn into a 40 page thread of *****ing and PSP hate, why not come out with the supporting information and give us an explanation of WHY the league chose to take this step?

Speculation on the internet gets nobody anywhere.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:43 AM #179
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this is just a head scratcher for me, i understand limiting the amount of photogs on a field and wanting to clear some of the point n shoot newbs off the sidelines but I do not understand how charging this huge fee will do anything other than monopolize the industry for the richest photogs and media companys as well as lessen the exposure of all the divisional teams who scrape pennys to make to an event in the first place only to try and be charged 4-600 bux a team for photos. What about teams who had a media sponsor or personal photog they carry to events with them?
It will be interesting to see this shake out by Texas. I hope to be there reffing so we shall see.
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:36 AM #180
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A limit put on the number I don't believe is an issue but should be a little more than 5. The issue is the ridiculously bull**** amount they want to charge. Especially for Divisional fields and teams. They forget that they are getting free advertisement out of all the photos. Plus this makes it harder for small teams to pay the amount that will be charged by the photographer to cover these costs. PSP is forgetting that these smaller teams are what keeps them going due to the amount of them compared to pros. plus now its going to be harder on the photographers since they will all now have more multiple shoots that may happen at once.

It just seems that PSP had their best season last year and think the have complete control of paintball and can do whatever they want. A lot like NASCAR screwing over all the phone companies from sponsoring and gasoline companies as well. It is nothing but CORPORATE GREED!
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:27 AM #181
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Has anyone directly contacted Damien/PSP about this to see if they'll comment?

This is just me speculating, but is it possible the PSP might have a deal worked out for the season with a media group to to provide these services (photography/videography) to all teams, in exchange for providing PSP with some of the revenue?

Last year in the EPL, we had Social Paintball cover every single event (13 in total), and they offered a photographer or videographer to cover your team for a fee. The EPL took no revenue from this (as far as i'm aware) and even paid for the travel costs for the person covering the event.

Is it possible PSP might have something worked out similar to this where in exchange for preferred access, they get some money out of team fees/sales after the event? I'm not implying it would be Social Paintball, that was just an example.

That could explain the media fee increase. Price out most of the media from covering the event and make it tough to turn a profit, so they stop coming back. Drives more of the teams toward the dedicated media grouping, which means more money for them.

Again, this is just a thought. Quite a conspiracy theory though, eh
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:49 AM #182
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Has anyone directly contacted Damien/PSP about this to see if they'll comment?
I received my fair share of emails and addressing those concerns and questions has been my priority for the past 2 days.
I still have a few dozen to reply to, so please bear with me.

I won't debate the intent on a forum, but if you email me or attend any of our events, feel free to come to me and have that discussion. I am easy to find and despite what people think, I don't bite.

I don't thing there is anything I could say that would not be misinterpreted, so I will simply reassure the divisional teams that despite what has been said here there will be plenty of media coverage.

Regarding the new regulations, we will keep everyone updated via our website and Facebook page.
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Old 01-25-2014, 12:44 PM #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien - PSP Events View Post
...

I won't debate the intent over emails nor a forum, but if you attend any of our events, feel free to come to me and have that discussion. I am easy to find and despite what people think, I don't bite.

I don't thing there is anything I could say that would not be misinterpreted, so I will simply reassure the divisional teams that despite what has been said here there will be plenty of media coverage.

Regarding the new regulations, we will keep everyone updated via our website and Facebook page.
Damien,

Your post may actually be doing more of a disservice to the PSP and its relations with the media than it is helping the issue.

I believe most of us are not wanting a debate, we are wanting to know the logic, thinking, driving force behind this terrible policy that has come out. And the vast majority of us I'm sure would like to have some civil discussions with the PSP about this issue. Waiting until an event to have this discussion is doing further disservice to the PSP and the media outlets that cover the events. Do you honestly believe someone is going to pay for airline tickets, checked bag fees, hotel, and rental car fees just to come have a chat with you about this policy?

I do believe the PSP should issue an official statement in regards to the logic and thinking behind this.

Quote:
I don't thing there is anything I could say that would not be misinterpreted, so I will simply reassure the divisional teams that despite what has been said here there will be plenty of media coverage.
How is that going to be accomplished when you have priced so many of the photographers that typically cover the divisional teams out of the events? Or are the divisional teams only going to have the option of using YOUR photographers and if they don't like the fee's that the PSP photographers charge, then their event isn't covered? That's not very fair to the divisional teams, especially seeing how they already pay a pretty good chunk of change to just attend your events.

How can you say that there will be plenty of media coverage for the divisional teams when its pretty obvious that most of the photographers who would have covered this have started to back away from the PSP and are looking at other leagues? I believe that you and/or the PSP owe the divisional teams some explanation on this as it could affect their plans for 2014 events.

If you say that you are going to use PBAccess live streams to cover the divisional fields, let me remind you how dismal the service quality is to the vast majority of users who attempt to view PBAccess streams. Most events its offline or fails repeatedly, premium subscriptions even have the same issues.

Again Damien, your post is actually creating more questions and concerns I'm sure with the photographers as well as the divisional teams, and keeping everyone in the dark, or refusing to engage in dialogue on the issues are doing nothing to help the situation.

I for one, would enjoy having an open discussion with you or the members of the PSP who make these decisions to help you all better understand my side of this issue. Burying your head in the sand and saying LALALALA isn't going to make this issue go away.

Respectfully,

James
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:09 PM #184
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Originally Posted by Damien - PSP Events View Post
I received my fair share of emails and addressing those concerns and questions has been my priority for the past 2 days.
I still have a few dozen to reply to, so please bear with me.

I won't debate the intent over emails nor a forum, but if you attend any of our events, feel free to come to me and have that discussion. I am easy to find and despite what people think, I don't bite.

I don't thing there is anything I could say that would not be misinterpreted, so I will simply reassure the divisional teams that despite what has been said here there will be plenty of media coverage.

Regarding the new regulations, we will keep everyone updated via our website and Facebook page.
We want to know why you changed the regulations
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:03 PM #185
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It's good to see the ****ing up in the PSP rules and regulations keeping on. APL is looking better and better. At least they aren't ****ing us over quite yet with crazy new regulations and rules.
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:33 PM #186
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I've shot plenty of NCAA sports before at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln, as well as one MLS [Major League Soccer] game. It was 1. Exponentially easier to get credentials to shoot a REAL professional sport, and 2. Exponentially cheaper.
Soccer even in the United States will always 110% be a bigger sport than paintball, no debate. Yet, it was incredibly cheaper and more realistic to shoot a professional sport thats advertised all over ESPN, FOX, etc with players making over 3M USD. (All I paid was food, and gas for a three hour drive from OMA to KC.)

Half of the people commenting on this saying, "PSP made a great move" etc don't understand what it's like to view life through a polarized filter on the "other side" of the lens. A lot of us don't shoot pictures because we want to make money, we shoot because it makes us happy, it's fun, etc. If I was shooting pictures for money I would probably sell my 70-200f/2.8 because there would be virtually no point in a two thousand dollar lens like that, and just do studio pictures all day hustling teen moms who want family pictures with their new kids and baby daddies.

Just my .2 cents but it seems this is an huge step backwards for the PSP. Mondo.
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:02 PM #187
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I've shot plenty of NCAA sports before at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln, as well as one MLS [Major League Soccer] game. It was 1. Exponentially easier to get credentials to shoot a REAL professional sport, and 2. Exponentially cheaper.
Soccer even in the United States will always 110% be a bigger sport than paintball, no debate. Yet, it was incredibly cheaper and more realistic to shoot a professional sport thats advertised all over ESPN, FOX, etc with players making over 3M USD. (All I paid was food, and gas for a three hour drive from OMA to KC.)

Half of the people commenting on this saying, "PSP made a great move" etc don't understand what it's like to view life through a polarized filter on the "other side" of the lens. A lot of us don't shoot pictures because we want to make money, we shoot because it makes us happy, it's fun, etc. If I was shooting pictures for money I would probably sell my 70-200f/2.8 because there would be virtually no point in a two thousand dollar lens like that, and just do studio pictures all day hustling teen moms who want family pictures with their new kids and baby daddies.

Just my .2 cents but it seems this is an huge step backwards for the PSP. Mondo.


Couldnt have said it better myself man! I would like to thank PSP for letting me not do what I love this year. I went to the events to film and hang out with friends plus meet new people who loved my work. Now I cant do that because of the new rules. You have lost something pretty important but you just cant see it yet. You will soon though
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:13 PM #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien - PSP Events View Post
I received my fair share of emails and addressing those concerns and questions has been my priority for the past 2 days.
I still have a few dozen to reply to, so please bear with me.

I won't debate the intent over emails nor a forum, but if you attend any of our events, feel free to come to me and have that discussion. I am easy to find and despite what people think, I don't bite.

I don't thing there is anything I could say that would not be misinterpreted, so I will simply reassure the divisional teams that despite what has been said here there will be plenty of media coverage.

Regarding the new regulations, we will keep everyone updated via our website and Facebook page.
Shocking response.

Just looking for a simple clarification on how these regulations came to be. How can you expect ANYONE to support these changes if you can't justify the reasoning behind them?
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:22 PM #189
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