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Old 10-15-2013, 06:43 AM #379
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Sad to see Ton Tons missing out on World cup! Unfortunate situation snowballing into an unfortunate outcome.

Hopefully we will see you back in the PSP next year!
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:53 AM #380
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Unfortunately, I think it will be a long shot to see the Ton Tons back in the PSP next year. Their absence is most likely going to rob 4 teams of a game at World Cup. Not showing up for a locked division is a pretty big deal.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:07 AM #381
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Originally Posted by John View Post
Unfortunately, I think it will be a long shot to see the Ton Tons back in the PSP next year. Their absence is most likely going to rob 4 teams of a game at World Cup. Not showing up for a locked division is a pretty big deal.

john. would you mind elaborating for me?? not fully understanding.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:17 PM #382
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If no one subs for them, the people lined up to play them will not have a game to play.

Getting a point from a default should work out to being the same result in that division as no game at all.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:17 AM #383
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Originally Posted by John View Post
Unfortunately, I think it will be a long shot to see the Ton Tons back in the PSP next year. Their absence is most likely going to rob 4 teams of a game at World Cup. Not showing up for a locked division is a pretty big deal.
ah ****, yeah you are probably right. Hope they can work something out. If not I id like to see the Ton Tons stick to it and fight their way back into the pro division.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:38 AM #384
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Originally Posted by B.W.M.H.ofBLITZKRIEG View Post
And another note, even if a gun was shooting hot on the breal, and only on the break, it would be well below 300fps by the time it made it across the field, so not that dangerous.

We learned this in elementry school, gravity and air resistance decrease velocity.
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***** please... they are one of the longest lasting franchises in the sport. Furthermore if this was a real professional sport they could sue the psp for the loss of profit(sponsors didn't pay up). however this is paintball so hopefully they work something out with psp behind the scenes.
If this was a professional sport we would have some sort of centralized league committee to take care of rules and arbitration between teams and league owners, Ref training , field layouts .... ect. Hey it could be a world recognized committee. Maybe then the Olympic Committee would recognize our little game as a real sport.

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That's fine, it's your right to believe whomever you wish, but I don't personally see anything that has *proven* his opinion wrong.
You can,t prove an opinion. you can agree with it or not.

Now you can prove a fact but that's not what was said .

If your marker is over 300fps it is shooting hot that is a fact.
If you know it is not holding steady pressure then your doing so with intent, that is a fact.
Whom your team is and where it,s from makes no difference . A fact is a fact.

Anyone got a match so I can see? I seem to have knocked over a gas can...
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:58 AM #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmatt87 View Post
You can,t prove an opinion. you can agree with it or not.

Now you can prove a fact but that's not what was said .

If your marker is over 300fps it is shooting hot that is a fact.
If you know it is not holding steady pressure then your doing so with intent, that is a fact.
Whom your team is and where it,s from makes no difference . A fact is a fact.

Anyone got a match so I can see? I seem to have knocked over a gas can...
What are you talking about?

He said "proven WRONG" - not proven.

Ofcourse you can prove an opinion wrong..... if for instance I was to say my opinion is the world is flat, I could be proven wrong.

.... don't be a dummy

And speaking of "facts".... how is it a fact he knew it was not holding a steady pressure? - the french guys statement said he was experiencing FSDO..... that is not necessarily connected to unsteady pressure.

And as for "intent".... are you telling us players are irresponsible walking on with FSDO?

Because if that was the case, you could exclude about 1/4 of the guys shooting spool valve guns, at some point during every every event.

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Old 10-17-2013, 12:14 PM #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmatt87 View Post
Your such a daaaaaaaa . A field owners worst nightmare.




If this was a professional sport we would have some sort of centralized league committee to take care of rules and arbitration between teams and league owners, Ref training , field layouts .... ect. Hey it could be a world recognized committee. Maybe then the Olympic Committee would recognize our little game as a real sport.



You can,t prove an opinion. you can agree with it or not.

Now you can prove a fact but that's not what was said .

If your marker is over 300fps it is shooting hot that is a fact.
If you know it is not holding steady pressure then your doing so with intent, that is a fact.
Whom your team is and where it,s from makes no difference . A fact is a fact.

Anyone got a match so I can see? I seem to have knocked over a gas can...
Do you know how often ive chronoed with my older guns and the first shot was 320ish then everything else was below 300 WITH a field owner standing right there. Field owners arent stupid, they know paintball guns do crazy stuff, but as long as it just some FSDO type of deal none will care
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:20 PM #387
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Originally Posted by B.W.M.H.ofBLITZKRIEG View Post
Do you know how often ive chronoed with my older guns and the first shot was 320ish then everything else was below 300 WITH a field owner standing right there. Field owners arent stupid, they know paintball guns do crazy stuff, but as long as it just some FSDO type of deal none will care
A 320 first shot is not FSDO..... unless you play at 340....
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:34 PM #388
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A 320 first shot is not FSDO..... unless you play at 340....
Maybe surper chargeing is a better term, but what ever it called when your first shot is signifigantly higher than the following shots.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:41 PM #389
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Maybe surper chargeing is a better term, but what ever it called when your first shot is signifigantly higher than the following shots.
"Reg creep"
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:55 PM #390
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What are you talking about?

He said "proven WRONG" - not proven.

Ofcourse you can prove an opinion wrong..... if for instance I was to say my opinion is the world is flat, I could be proven wrong.

.... don't be a dummy

And speaking of "facts".... how is it a fact he knew it was not holding a steady pressure? - the french guys statement said he was experiencing FSDO..... that is not necessarily connected to unsteady pressure.

And as for "intent".... are you telling us players are irresponsible walking on with FSDO?

Because if that was the case, you could exclude about 1/4 of the guys shooting spool valve guns, at some point during every every event.

An opinion is not a fact.
It can be factually correct or incorrect but it is still an opinion and not a fact.
I never said it was or was not done. Nor did I say intent was or was not involved.
Odd I don,t shoot hot and I,ve been shooting spoolys for a longggg time. If my marker go,s over 300 i turn it down. If it,s a temp thing I play with my settings if not I correct the problem or use my back up a spool as well, Oh hey it,s a DYE too what do ya know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B.W.M.H.ofBLITZKRIEG View Post
Do you know how often ive chronoed with my older guns and the first shot was 320ish then everything else was below 300 WITH a field owner standing right there. Field owners arent stupid, they know paintball guns do crazy stuff, but as long as it just some FSDO type of deal none will care
Still don,t make it right. Over is over.
Shame on the field owner then. Now that thats said he is allowed to run his field as he see,s fit until his insurance carrier finds out then he,ll run it the way the carrier tells him.

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Originally Posted by B.W.M.H.ofBLITZKRIEG View Post
Maybe surper chargeing is a better term, but what ever it called when your first shot is signifigantly higher than the following shots.
just
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:16 PM #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmatt87 View Post
An opinion is not a fact.
It can be factually correct or incorrect but it is still an opinion and not a fact.
I never said it was or was not done. Nor did I say intent was or was not involved.
Odd I don,t shoot hot and I,ve been shooting spoolys for a longggg time. If my marker go,s over 300 i turn it down. If it,s a temp thing I play with my settings if not I correct the problem or use my back up a spool as well, Oh hey it,s a DYE too what do ya know.
Repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

If an opinion is factually right, it is - by definition - a fact
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:02 PM #392
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Quote:
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If an opinion is factually right, it is - by definition - a fact
Yeah, you're doing some serious "coloring outside the lines" about the difference between facts and opinions (as is the person you're arguing with, but this statement is the worst, as far as I am concerned).

Opinions may reference and or contain facts, but those facts being accurate does not *necessarily* endorse the opinion.


A *reasonable* opinion on this topic could be "since I believe the league and team statements about the gear and understand how reg creep could cause this, I don't believe Ton Tons took the field knowingly with broken gear".

While *all* of that is opinion at the moment...some folks trust the league and the team enough to treat those assertions as facts. That's fine, however, even if those items are fact, it doesn't make the conclusion at the end a fact.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:17 PM #393
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Repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

If an opinion is factually right, it is - by definition - a fact
Then it is no longer an opinion but a fact and that is not what was typed and I have yet to repeat myself.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:51 PM #394
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Those guys are in the big leagues and they know he refs aren't dumb, I highly doubt they would be stupid enough to even bother trying to cheat with hot guns.

I think the PSP was right in banning him though. The PSP has a rulebook and if they don't enforce it at all times, without bias, then other people will take advantage of the leniency to actually try to cheat and then reference this case when they get caught.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmatt87 View Post
Odd I don,t shoot hot and I,ve been shooting spoolys for a longggg time. If my marker go,s over 300 i turn it down. If it,s a temp thing I play with my settings if not I correct the problem or use my back up a spool as well, Oh hey it,s a DYE too what do ya know.
I'm calling bull**** on that. You, just like everyone else, chronos your gun in the morning then don't worry about it for the rest of the day.

Though, personally, after seeing this happen, I am going to start chronoing my gun a few times a day to make sure it hasn't creeped.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:12 PM #395
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Everyone's still arguing about this same old stuff?

Tons Tons and Aftershock shot hot. one gun shot 352... hot day in California. and a torn oring. Past is the past guys there is no justifying how guns get hot. there are many reasons. Now, Tons Tons not playing is an issue. Looks like the PSP chased out another team, or the Tons Tons chased themselves out. Regardless looks like Art Chaos has a open spot for next year.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:11 AM #396
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My opinion is they will be missed, some great competitors. And that is a fact jack
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:56 PM #397
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Those guys are in the big leagues and they know he refs aren't dumb, I highly doubt they would be stupid enough to even bother trying to cheat with hot guns.

I think the PSP was right in banning him though. The PSP has a rulebook and if they don't enforce it at all times, without bias, then other people will take advantage of the leniency to actually try to cheat and then reference this case when they get caught.

I'm calling bull**** on that. You, just like everyone else, chronos your gun in the morning then don't worry about it for the rest of the day.

Though, personally, after seeing this happen, I am going to start chronoing my gun a few times a day to make sure it hasn't creeped.
Sir call it as you will. You have your standards and I have mine. I have found that my markers shoot best at 280/285 fps if I get a slight spike who cares it will still be below 300 fps if I get a spike that will raise my Velocity to a point it is above 300 fps it will be easy to feel . As i have stated i have been shooting for a long time and out of habit I crono my marker a few times during the day because of reg-creep sorry if I hold to the rules.

Although I,m sure your right no pro or semi-pro team or player would cheat or go out with a marker that would shoot outside of the Parameters Designated by a Sanctioning body but it could happen.
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:54 PM #398
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Double post. Someone shoot me.



that's not what happened to their markers. Their marker did the 'exact' opposite of what it should have done given the excuse they gave.

In that scenario the 'first' shot should have been the 352 but it was in fact the 'last' (I believe the 4th tested shot). So the idea that it was the o-ring in the reg is nothing but a lie from people who know more about their markers than I do.



They are about to win Millineum which comes with a huge cash payout lol
Seriously. If it was the 4th shot that was 350. How on earth are you going to do this cheating? You canīt chrono a DM plus 50fps just by adding dwell.

That can happen if you are chronoing a DM the wrong way, using the LPR instead of the inline reg. This leads to massiv fluctuation.
So, to me that sounds like a mistake by the guy who tuned their guns to speed.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:17 PM #399
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too much LPR is going to cause the HPR to spike?
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