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Old 09-26-2013, 11:05 PM #43
Dzuari
 
 
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Originally Posted by KingSky View Post
Everything i have read and seen shows the dmag dimensions to be very close to a RAP4/Milsig magazine. Have one of those handy for guesswork? I think it's roughly 2 3/4" long on top, bout an inch wide, with the feed lining up with the front edge.
Looking at my tipx measurements, almost certain that wouldn't work then.

If a dmag doesn't work, I bet the Dye mag would actually work for the tipx setup because most of the mag sits in front of the chamber instead of behind. And you wouldn't have to machine the magwell for a prototype unless you really wanted to.

Nice renders btw. What do you use?

Edit:
Found this dmag well on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tacamo-MKV-D...em23300b c0bd
solidworks premium, it has a built in rendering. I use HSMworks plugin for CNCing.

The dye dam might have to be the way to go, i guess i could make a tipx adapter, the mag would have to be loaded backwards and the release would be more complicated but it might be possible. First strike would also not be capable with the tipx mags.

Also, i'm thinking about the dmag release and wonder if actual bullpup rifles use similar mechanisms. It'd be nice if you could release with your trigger hand like you do a regular rifle instead of having to do the release and pull simultaneous with one hand.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:08 PM #44
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I've thought about that. It can be done, look at the PDR concept by magpul. It's just a long as linkage arm i think.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:33 PM #45
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I can't find anything on the actual rifle mag release. I've found some airsoft footage but none specifically on the mag release mechanism, that ambidextrous release is nice though. I'm guessing its electrical? Is it a slide button or push button?

Last edited by Dzuari : 09-27-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:04 AM #46
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It's a push button on the dye, apparently a lever on the dmag.
My dye magwell should be here tomorrow, and I went ahead and ordered a dmag well and 14 round dmag as well, should be here early next week, I'll post pics when I get them, and see if I can't better illustrate how that works.

And thank you guys for getting me interested in this stuff again.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:52 PM #47
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I went ahead and flipped the valve upside down to see what kind of trigger linkage i could come up with. It would need 2 extra pieces, 1 bent 9 gauge steel wire and a stamped 10 gauge sheet steel. I'll probably hook up a mag release with a similar linkage.

I'm not sure where to put the tank though, that's roughly a 20 round dmag and the 13ci tank would be just an inch or so longer if mounted behind it but idk how well that will feel and it would make the back end very heavy. I think a reverse grip mounted tank would be a decent balance(tank facing forward), it wouldn't look as good but it would help balance out the rear. It would require a very long airline connection though. A picatinny 203 launcher tank might be possible but it would probably stick out longer than anything less than a 14-16 barrel.





I tried to contact vijil to see if he'd be interested in a concept drawing for the gun but haven't heard anything from him yet so i found this on deviant art and did a simple layup.




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Old 09-28-2013, 12:44 AM #48
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Hmm. Very interesting. Crazy linkage arm. I just got my Dye Magwell today. Never realized it, but it's got an ambidextrous release. I'll try and get some pics up when the mags come in tomorrow.

I think if you want the air on board, it gonna have to underbarrel like a launcher, or use a 12 gram or 88 gram c02 over the barrell, kinda directly above the trigger, and hide it inside some sort of sight riser.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:07 PM #49
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I just got my Dye Magwell today. Never realized it, but it's got an ambidextrous release. I'll try and get some pics up when the mags come in tomorrow.
Is it the notch just below the window that slides?


Here are some photos of what it would look like with a 13ci tank and a 12" barrel.





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Old 09-28-2013, 10:31 PM #50
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Hey Punisher! How is changing mags on your setup? And how did you do the milling for FS? I was looking at the magwell, and since the mag release is a push button, and behind the mag, it seems like it would feel really unnatural to change mags. I cheated with my first bullpup and it's a purely friction system, though it works really well, and i've never had a mag fall out. And on my second, I just used a tipx whole in the rear, so I kinda cheated there too...

I don't think the Dye mag system will work for me on a bullpup ion setup because it just makes it too long behind the trigger, It looks like it would work really well on a Tipx setup though.
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Old 09-29-2013, 02:19 AM #51
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Actually it's simple to change mags,I had the same thought at first
I'm finding when I hold&sight mine my left hand(I'm a righty)holds on the front of the magwell instead of the foregrip so my thumb rests somewhat near the release.I removed around 1 inch off front of the magwell and 3/8 off the mounting rails to make it fit mine.The magwells kinda huge.
Just made my own magwell from sheet ABS,basically a box with two side guides and a block to push the "garage doors" open,it's friction fit currently
Here's a pic from last game day.I'm an average size guy at 5 9" 180lbs for scale,you may see the slingmount on my tac vest connected to the 'rear,really helps balance it,one handed reloads are much easier too
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:32 PM #52
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My dmag came in today. The dimensions are 2.66"x1.0"

I'm aiming for the main body of the gun to be 2 pieces with switchable shrouds of various lengths that can easily be changed or removed with some pins.




I ran into a bit of a snag designing the grip and trigger. I want to make it so the gun is compatible with all AR grips because there are a lot out there and i want this gun to be as customizable as possible, but the .43 radius of the full grip cuts into the trigger linkage so it looks like i have to redesign the entire linkage. (the black is the Tipx default linkage arm)



I could drop the high rise capable grips and just stick with the short style AR grips and that would allow me to still use the default Tipx linkage arm but i'd like for any grip to be usable.

(high rise)


(short)
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:48 PM #53
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here is a rendering of black powdercoat with a black low gloss grip

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Old 09-30-2013, 07:51 PM #54
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I really like that! Can't wait to see what you do for a front shroud, maybe something like a casv shroud?

Actually, it looks like it would make a really good magpul PDR type rifle with that 12",
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:42 PM #55
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I really like that! Can't wait to see what you do for a front shroud, maybe something like a casv shroud?
ya i was thinking something like that.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:39 PM #56
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Here are a few more renders, i fixed the mapping size of the powdercoat texture so it should look more like a rough texture coating. The last one has machined chamfers and etching but the rendering doesn't do it justice, it will look something like the idler bracket below it, that bracket is powdercoated with a high gloss black, this gun will probably be coated with tippmann black(Photos don't do it justice either, it looks even more awesome in person).

Right click and open photo in new window to view full size.








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Old 09-30-2013, 09:48 PM #57
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Clear glass version

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Old 09-30-2013, 10:00 PM #58
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Oh man, I really think you've got something there. If you made this as a "Bullpup conversion kit" for a tipx, I would totally buy one if it were a couple hundred bucks.

What are you doing for a mag release? My dmag magwell will arrive on the 2nd and I'll post up some better pics and details on the release.

You figure out what you want to do about the air situation? Looks like in front or on top are you only options with that stock. Maybe make it part of the front shroud options? One for each design and one without an air option, and then build in a remote line plug in the button?

I love that your posting so much detail, but perhaps you should think about patents and copyright if you intend to follow this through to a commercial product? Along with contacting Tacamo and Tippman about using their parts.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:30 PM #59
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Oh man, I really think you've got something there. If you made this as a "Bullpup conversion kit" for a tipx, I would totally buy one if it were a couple hundred bucks.

What are you doing for a mag release? My dmag magwell will arrive on the 2nd and I'll post up some better pics and details on the release.

You figure out what you want to do about the air situation? Looks like in front or on top are you only options with that stock. Maybe make it part of the front shroud options? One for each design and one without an air option, and then build in a remote line plug in the button?

I love that your posting so much detail, but perhaps you should think about patents and copyright if you intend to follow this through to a commercial product? Along with contacting Tacamo and Tippman about using their parts.
For the the mag release, ill probably do a similar linkage as the trigger, have a push forward button like the PDR.

This iteration will have a remote line plug that runs straight down to the bottom of the stock, i may leave a place to run a line to the front but that is a long way (+$) and would probably require some kind of metal braided hose which might be a accessory bought separately. i'll probably break down different version of the gun at varying prices for different air systems, shrouds/barrel lengths and maybe a ultralight and heavy version.

I designed that rear of the gun so that i can easily extend the stock to be longer so that i can test a different version with a mounted tank in the stock.

Not sure if you are referring too patenting my designs or infringing on others but most of the stuff i'm doing is just standard machining, nothing special, any machine shop is capable of it.

I believe rap4 created the dmag but not entirely sure, i'll probably contact both of them. Tippmann is only 45min north of us, i don't really know their stance on aftermarket or conversion kits but it would be awesome if i could buy the components at distributor price, I've only meet a few of the tippmann family a few times but hopefully our 20+ years of business will help out .

I'll contact them after i have some working prototypes and tested them, being 23 years old I'm not really taken to seriously until i show some progress.

On a side note, the guy who started tippmann sports in 87 is brilliant, I've only meet him a few times but the first time i walked into his office he was messing with this little .22 pistol, my dad asked him what he was doing and he said he made this breach loaded .22 over the weekend but it wasn't working quite right. He made a freaking pistol as a weekend project lol. Before he started his paintball business he use to be a gunsmith and made .22 caliber Gatling guns before the automatic firearms ban back in the day. I've never seen them, but i heard they had gatling gun helicopters at one of the tippmann events, i wouldn't doubt he helped create them.

Last edited by Dzuari : 09-30-2013 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:14 AM #60
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Awesome.
I just got my dmag, and it's interesting. Much much different than the dye mag.

If your looking to drive down costs, what about making a model with the lever type mag release? Fewer cuts, no annoying linkage arm to break or jam, and it's ambidextrous.

Oh, and patenting yours, so that in six months Tacamo doesn't come out with a new amazing bullpup tpx kit that works with their dmags.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:52 AM #61
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Awesome.
I just got my dmag, and it's interesting. Much much different than the dye mag.

If your looking to drive down costs, what about making a model with the lever type mag release? Fewer cuts, no annoying linkage arm to break or jam, and it's ambidextrous.

Oh, and patenting yours, so that in six months Tacamo doesn't come out with a new amazing bullpup tpx kit that works with their dmags.
I'll see what the pricing comes out to on both versions, the lever version will probably have to be machined while the push button, while requiring a linkage, can probably get away with just some stamped steel. I might have do an upgrade package on which ever is more expensive for people that would prefer that style over the other.

If it turns out to be only $5-15 buck i'll probably just go with the high end one, i want this gun to find it's place somewhere in the middle of the market, I want it to be built like a tank with no cheap parts. It's kinda my family's philosophy on manufacturing. My company started back in 47' by my grandfather building wood patterns by hand in his chicken coop and i think we've made it this far without going under, partially from pure luck but i also think because we have always produced high quality products for our customers and do just a little bit more if it provides better quality. Some of our customers have pull work from us for cheaper alternatives only to come back realizing we do a pretty good job for the extra $. It might also just be the quicker lead time on parts but i like my reasoning better .

As for rip offs, i can't really stop them, i don't have the money to put down a patent and even if i did you then have to pay all the fees to take them too court, plus this gun currently has no new features worth the time, effort or money of a patent. I'll just have to beat them with higher quality. People will definitely buy a cheaper alternative but I'd rather sell fewer guns and be know for quality than sell a ton of PoS's for more money. Plus i'm a very busy person and selling a lot of cheap, low quality guns = more servicing and repairs plus the bad reviews and reputations. Something my already 40-50hr weeks can't handle alone. If you ever read about the business philosophy of tipmmann, you'll find customer service at the top of the list and is paramount to a good brand. Think about the last time your heard or read a complaint about their service .

I've talked to many reps from all over who's company has put work over in china to finally pull it because of poor quality and trying to do any revisions on molds half way across the world is a nightmare in itself. Something i have no interests in learning the hard way.

My next version i think you will really like, and it will have some patents , i don't have the capital for that gun or the endeavor yet though because it would require some injection molds that run 20-100k.

Last edited by Dzuari : 10-01-2013 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:58 AM #62
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AR style and dimensioned trigger guard done, for all your custom guard needs.

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Old 10-01-2013, 09:25 AM #63
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Here is the machine that will cut the main body. It's a brothers TC-32BN high speed tapping center. I wont be able to cut any thing for about a month or so because i need our lathe guy who is currently really busy to cut me some precision ground spacer legs for the sub plate(holey plate) so that i can raise up the fixture high enough so that the tools wont hit the bottom of their travel.(just like you see the legs in this photo) I will also need to be saving money for all the steel and aluminum, i'll probably be funding this on my own, luckily our 3D printer is open most of the time and a whole lot faster at prototyping

40 tools
BT30 holders
SK Collets
16,000 rpm spindle
1,000 IPM rapid

Same machine that cuts a-5's and 98s, i'm pretty sure your iphones and ipads are made from these also, or a version of it.


Last edited by Dzuari : 10-01-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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