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Old 08-09-2013, 09:07 PM #22
PhillGuy
 
 
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I personally have both the Phenom and a TM-7. The Phenom has given me nothing but problems but the TM-7 has worked beautifully. I think the TM-7 usually a little cheaper but you have to add a hopper on to it over the Phenom.

From what I can tell the Phenom reliability is a bit hit and miss. It is possible to get one that works just fine but the opposite is true too. With the Phenom being both Mech and electronic, being able to run it without batteries is something I have never needed. It sounds like a neat feature but I think in reality it doesn't matter. If it at all worries you just carry extra batteries out in the field.

Don't forget to invest in a good vest, and possible a remote line. Carrying a heavy Tippmann all day is tiring, not carrying the tank helps a bit.


The truth of the matter is: just get something. You are going to find things you like, things you don't like, things you never thought you needed and things you don't need that you have.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:14 PM #23
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Would this other forum be ran by Mike Phillips? If so this is to be expected, they are full of kids that bandwagon and full of fanboyism (there is a few exception but most of the active members are).

My opinion is the Tippmann line are awesome markers to just beat the **** out of if you don't go very often. They are reliable, and thats basically it.

If you wanted my opinion on what kind of marker that I like for milsim I'd say get a GoG G1 or whenever GoG get off their ***** and make it the G1-M (mech version of the G1). I mean I like the performance out of the eNMEy/eNVy/eXTCY/ion/G1/SP1 engine, its smooth and quiet and that I like. Requires more maintenance but hey who says you can win it all?
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:37 AM #24
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A few people here have mentioned maintenance on the G-1/SP-1 negatively. The OP was looking into an A5 in the beginning, the G-1/SP-1 take 2 screws, and the bolt cap, the lube the 3 orings and the stalk. Its not bad at all.

To the OP, find a local field that you'd consider a home. Talk to local players, find a local store, ask people about their equipment. Most of us will gladly let you take a couple of shots with our markers, see what feels right in your hand. You may find that running around with a 8lb Tippy isn't what you find enjoyable, and that a 3lb speedball marker may not look as fun but gets the job done.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:43 AM #25
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Its not really all that hard to do routine maintenance on the G-1/SP-1. Its just more work than a tippmann if you get my drift.

And for sure if you don't like the weight of a tippmann with or without extra stuff on it a speedball marker will still shoot balls at the same speed as a tippmann
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:40 PM #26
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Out of the Tippmanns i would go with the A-5. I have seen the X-7's break down quite often. I have never seen that with an A-5. I ave a 98c sitting on my workbench right now that has not been taken apart, cleaned, or lubed in 6 years. It still shoots just fine.

However, i would recommend a speedball marker over a woodsball marker just because they genuinely are better. Easier to work on (typically), better efficiency, better shot quality and consistency, and i personally find them to be more ergonomic. They dont always have to be the neon colored space blasters you typically think of. Theres the tactical body for the Etha (out of your price range, i know), G1/SP1, body kits for Ions, etc. Still a speedball marker at heart, but dressed differently. Or you could rock a earth tone anno like i do. Empire makes the Mini in a dust olive, which is a great option. I run one as a backup to my shocker. Heres my setup that gets used for everything from speedball to grassroots woodsball

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:01 PM #27
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Tippmanns are the backbone of most rental fleets and the real workhorse of scenario paintball. The 98 series especially is the hobby's AK47- ubiquitous and reliable.

That being said, the real disadvantage of a Tippmann or Tippmann-derived platform compared to other guns is the length. The inline blowback design of the 98 or A5 means that the gun's breech sits a good 6 inches or so forward of the trigger rather than right above it as on something like the G1. This means that not only is a Tippmann with a 14" barrel going to be 6 inches longer overall than a G1 with a 14" barrel, but because the Tippmann's hopper sits forward of the user's shooting hand the gun is a little bit harder to handle and tuck behind cover than a more compact gun.

Even though the Phenom doesn't use the classic Tippmann inline blowback design, it's only marginally shorter from trigger-to-breech than a traditional Tippmann.

For a lot of people, this is a non-issue, if not a boon, especially if they're used to handling a lot of real-steel firearms through hunting or the military. However, for people who have experience using more compact, better-balanced markers, it's hard to back to something like a Tippmann, and the longer platform feels unnecessarily ungainly and cumbersome.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:03 PM #28
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:06 PM #29
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Speedball markers easier to work on? Hmmm.. Noy horrible but much much easier to screw up .. Piched.wires,blown noid,dead eyes, ect ect.. Much easier to work on a woodsball marker that is 99.9% mech that strip in the field if needed with simple push pins ..

Again.. Speedball markers are not bad.. Im not knocking thwm or badmouthing them.. I uae em in the woods every once and a while.. But not really easier to work on then. Mech.. With mech if you mesh up its a matter of reconfigureing the parts you placed wrong or forgot.. With electronic there is alot more to screw up.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:17 PM #30
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Speedball markers easier to work on? Hmmm.. Noy horrible but much much easier to screw up .. Piched.wires,blown noid,dead eyes, ect ect.. Much easier to work on a woodsball marker that is 99.9% mech that strip in the field if needed with simple push pins ..

Again.. Speedball markers are not bad.. Im not knocking thwm or badmouthing them.. I uae em in the woods every once and a while.. But not really easier to work on then. Mech.. With mech if you mesh up its a matter of reconfigureing the parts you placed wrong or forgot.. With electronic there is alot more to screw up.
Not all "woodsball markers" are easy to work on, though.
Taking apart a model 98 or an Alpha Black, for instance, can be a real nightmare too, even without eye wires.

I don't know if you can characterize either speedball or woodsball markers as being easier to work on, as it tends to depend on the individual design and whether we're talking about cleaning the bolt after a chop, doing routine cleaning/maintenance, or actually repairing something that's broken.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:48 PM #31
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Tippmann's are not junk, they don't suck. They just don't know the difference from wants and needs. There are many ups for the Tippmann that after all the upgrades to get to what they want. You might aswell just buy an more expensive gun that don't need the upgrades.

You can't go wrong with an A-5 or Phenom. I owned both. In the end, Tippmann markers compare to others will boil down to reliability.

I would recommend the Phenom tho. A-5 is good, i think its better shot to shot consistency.

They are not the most efficient. Most of the other markers out their are operating at 200-300 psi. Phenom operates around 400, A-5 is at 800psi.

Barrel length, that really shouldn't be an issue. And its not 6" longer then other markers. 2-4" tops.

Tippmann Pros
+Reliability.
+Upgrades
+Mod-ability (if you like mil-sim/scenario looking markers)
+No need for hopper
+less batteries/no battery capable(on phenom)

Tippmann Cons
- Not as compact as competitors (2-4" max)
If you look at a lot of barrel comparison, you only need at most 12" barrel. Speedballers use 14" barrels cause its easier to aim with.
- Air Efficiency
- Upgrades

Tippmann Neutral
? price

So upgrades, there are Bolt upgrades, hammer upgrades, cyclone upgrades (not really needed), trigger upgrades, etc. While there is a lot of aftermarket parts, after all those upgrades, your spending quite bit, which is why i list it as both pro and con. You have to decide do you really "need" them. There is difference from want and need. Just get a TechT MRT bolt and your done. Forget about cyclone upgrades. They use to fail in the A-5s and thats because most are shooting faster then the 12BPS default. It can go as fast as you shoot. Theres a video of it doing 20BPS with stock cyclone no chops. Tippmann took care of it in the Phenoms. They are better then the squishy paddles.

Mod Ability - I am sorry no other gun can be modded like a Tippmann.

Hopper/Price - You dont need to spend another $100 for a hopper. Tippmann is are assisted. I have never ever chop paint in the cyclone. Since its air assisted, one less battery to worry about and to buy. I see guys with 5-6 batteries as spares they gotta bring. extra 3 AA for their rotors and extra 9Vs.

Phenom E-grip. Go full auto, run out of batteries during the game switch to semi, and it will work. All others, if your battery is dead, your done until you swap it out.

True Story, My friend owns the SP-1, which is the equivalent of the G1 now. Bought an etek4 and never looked back. The day we brought it to let someone use it instead of the rental. Damn thing wouldn't even fire. Think solenoid broke or something. I had my A-5 and my Phenom that day. A-5 had a leak and was still shooting 300FPS. No issues. (also leak was not due to bad maintenance, apparently the tombstone chamber was not to specs.) The A-5 hadn't been used in over a year, since i was usually using the Phenom. Phenom hasn't been touched in 6 months, since i bought an Empire Axe. They both worked like a charm. I do clean and relube after every use. Same goes for my friend.

I have friends that went from $60 electric hoppers, that gave them problems. Went out and bought a dye rotor for the next outing.

I can go on and on.

Last edited by PeregrineTHL : 08-10-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:08 PM #32
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I have an SP1. You will NOT be disappointed if you buy it. For $125 brand new it's a bargain. You must decide if you want to play magfed or not. If you're fine with running a hopper then go SP1 all the way. If you want magfed your only choices in your price range would be the X7, or the Milsig MK3.

EDIT: Here's a great deal on a magfed X7 http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/...-gun-with-dmag
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:57 PM #33
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Where on EARTH can you get an SP1 for $125 brand new?
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:03 PM #34
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ANS has them for $130.
http://www.ansgear.com/Smart_Parts_S...llgunblack.htm

A much better deal than the G-1, in my opinion.
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:16 PM #35
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ANS has them for $130.
http://www.ansgear.com/Smart_Parts_S...llgunblack.htm

A much better deal than the G-1, in my opinion.
Some people pay that much for air thru stocks lol. Jump on it
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:32 PM #36
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...and if you miss the G-1's 14" barrel, ANS has something better for $30.
http://www.ansgear.com/Custom_Produc...a1pcdblack.htm

May as well, since the base gun is $130 you're already over their free shipping threshold.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:38 PM #37
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I f you are willing to spend 600 I just bought the empire bt tm 15 le gen 2 and it is an amzing gun used it for the first time today and I was tearing people up with full auto and 3 round burst. It is a really effciant gun and easy to maintain. I was getting complaiments all day on the gun and how awsome it performed. The empire bt tm 15 le is basically a speedball gun in a milsim body if you can test one out id recomend it

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Old 08-10-2013, 06:56 PM #38
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Thank you! I've always had a thing for the stock NXT bodies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoX13 View Post
Speedball markers easier to work on? Hmmm.. Noy horrible but much much easier to screw up .. Piched.wires,blown noid,dead eyes, ect ect.. Much easier to work on a woodsball marker that is 99.9% mech that strip in the field if needed with simple push pins ..

Again.. Speedball markers are not bad.. Im not knocking thwm or badmouthing them.. I uae em in the woods every once and a while.. But not really easier to work on then. Mech.. With mech if you mesh up its a matter of reconfigureing the parts you placed wrong or forgot.. With electronic there is alot more to screw up.
I guess what i was getting at was that with a speedball marker, theres no rails, shrouds, or big bodies in the way. Even though the X7 is a spool, i would imagine its more difficult to get to the firing compontents than it is with any spool speedball marker simply because of the big body thats trying to look like a real firearm. Not that theres anything wrong with that, but its just the way i see it.

I guess it really does depend on the marker, but if you really go buck wild with accessories and rails and tacti-cool stuff, then its gonna make working on your marker that much more difficult.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:06 PM #39
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Honestly, Tippmann is great but there are much better options for the money when you look at the X7 line. First thing, buy used as it will save you loads of money and if buy from a reputable source then your product will be fine. I would recommend looking into the TM line. The TM line will provide you with a great performing gun with the mil-sim/woodsball look and feel. There is a reasonably priced TM-15 Here: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...8&highlight=tm

If you ask $300 for it I'm almost sure something can be arranged and that would get you the most bang for your buck. Alterntaivly you can check out the TM-7 which is the same gun internally just in a different body style and cheaper. This can be found here:
http://www.trademygun.com/p-4977-use...ker-black.aspx

On this same website (Trademygun.com which is highly reputable) there is a TM-15 for $300 and in the end it just comes down to which style suits you best. Hope you are satisfied with what ever route you take.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:03 AM #40
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Its very easy to remove the bolt from the A-5/X7. 5 seconds to get the bolt out.

To help you make the best bang for your buck. Look at tippmann marker of your choice and look at what you want to achieve with that marker. Then add up all the cost for the upgrades you need to achieve that goal. And compare that cost to a marker in that price range. Then ask yourself do i want the Tippmann or That?

Tippmann are good markers. The only thing i see negative about tippmanns is that upgrades are expensive. $30 here and $50 here and there. Soon your spending $300+ on upgrades/mods.

IE: Empire Axe used ~$300 , etha kit $80, Eigenbarrel/bolt combo $60. DONE . Total price $440. +$100 for a Dye Rotor. Total $540 you spend on that marker alone. + $30 for more tweaking (blurker bolt, spring kit) which is optional.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:51 AM #41
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When I got back into playing, I knew I would mostly be playing recball/woodsball with private groups of friends. So I was going to go with a Tippmann knowing I could just beat it up and only be out a few bucks or go for a "higher end" Tippmann and then resell it for whatever I would get once my playing time slowed down. I also set myself about 250-300 for a marker.

Then I saw the G1 and was about to buy it, but then I saw the eXTCy for the same price and thought it would let me play speedball if the urge came up. The day before buying it, I found a guy through a friend selling his fairly new Empire Axe for $295 because he had to pay for books. I got him down to $275 and pulled the trigger on it, and never looked back. I know it's an "anodized speedball gun" but for your budget a good used Axe not only has resale value, but it's a workhorse imo.


And as mentioned in a previous post, with a kit, you can make it a more mil sim look.

Tactical Empire Axe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDPvizlfR6A
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:43 AM #42
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OP, I think what a few of us are trying to say with our suggestions is, a good portion of us on the forum started out with a Tippman or the like. That most of us have moved on from that marker, some having put hundreds of dollars into up grades, finding that not having a clam shell body with 8 screws was much easier. Some having sold our Tippmans seeing that doesn't hold its resale, ate suggesting that you take all of it into consideration. With an annoed speedball marker you'll be able to play any and everywhere without issue, but with a 8lb, 3ft long woodsball gun, it can be difficult to play tight on your local fields hyperpipe, or barrel field. So while speedball and inflatable bunkers may not be for you, you will play speedball like fields.
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