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Old 04-16-2013, 08:28 AM #1
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NPPL complaints...

Let me start by saying that I am sympathetic to many of the issues that a lot of people in this forum are discussing and I want to be able to help to the extent of my ability, which sadly isn't very much. I want to give you my perspective as an NPPL employee but also a HUGE fan of the sport.

I know that you guys think that your complaints are falling on deaf ears and that's because THEY ARE... I sat down with Chuck, Pev and Jung (our media guy) and brought up some of the issues that I saw listed on PBNation. I asked all 3 of them if they ever look at the forum here and the answer was a perfect 3 for 3... NO they don't.

With that being said, instead of complaining on PBNation and getting no resolution, you should approach any or all 3 of them and respectfully voice your concerns. I know at times it seems like they/we aren't concerned with what the players want but I can sincerly tell you, from the conversations that I've had with Chuck and Pev, that is 100% untrue.

I think it's obvious that we are going through a tough time right now but I really think HB was a good event, not only for the league but for the players and fans as well. Everyone I spoke to seemed VERY happy... and that includes the players and vendors.

I understand that people are frusterated... I was a player at one time too. What I don't understand is people saying they want the NPPL "to die". That would be horrible for the sport that I love. I work for the NPPL but I don't want the PSP "to die". I believe that in any business competition is a good thing. It keeps the respective industry moving and forces innovation. If there is a monopoly things don't have a reason to change. Think about it... would Coke be as good as they are if Pepsi wasn't around? Would Nike be as good and innovative as they are without Reebok? Would Dye be as good as they are without Empire and so on and so so on... The answer is NO.

I want you to realize that I fully expect to get bashed for making this thread but please understand that being disrespectful and immature isn't going to help anything get resolved. If you have a complaint or concern that isn't being addressed by email or over the phone, as I said before, approach Chuck or Pev at an event and let them know. You can also come and let me know since I'm pretty easy to find.

Thanks for taking the time to read this extremely long post and keep in mind that I really do care, not only about the NPPL and our players and fans, but about the sport of paintball and I want to see it succeed and if I can help that I will.

Chris (The announcer)
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:58 AM #2
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Hi Chris, thanks for speaking up. Hopefully it doesn't get too messy in here.

I'm a long-time recreational player (and sometimes tournaments when I can actually run and move quickly), and admittedly don't play national league events. However, I've got a great interest in seeing paintball as a whole survive and thrive. One section in particular of your post caught my eye:

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm RickJames View Post
I know that you guys think that your complaints are falling on deaf ears and that's because THEY ARE... I sat down with Chuck, Pev and Jung (our media guy) and brought up some of the issues that I saw listed on PBNation. I asked all 3 of them if they ever look at the forum here and the answer was a perfect 3 for 3... NO they don't.
Would you mind if I ask why not? I know I've got a vested interest in people coming to PBN, but this is certainly the biggest global/internet gathering place for players of all levels. People talk here. When they go to events, they're there to either play, watch the games, or shop the vendors. I know when NPPL ran the companion event at CPX during Living Legends, I popped over to see a local team play a few games, shopped, and played in the woods. Not once did I think about looking for anybody who runs the NPPL show to bring up concerns or comments about what the league does. Not only wasn't it on my mind at the time, but even if I'd thought of it, I wouldn't have wanted to interrupt them running the event.

On top of that, honestly, I was under the impression for quite a while that the three gentlemen you mentioned above were not the people to talk to about anything. There's another individual who is VERY vocal about all things NPPL who gave the appearance of being the face and voice of the NPPL. Something to think about, perhaps.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:11 AM #3
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Pump Scout,

They simply didn't seem to realize that people were so vocal about complaints on here and to be honest, a lot of the complainers are just being rude and dispespectful. I also know that the 3 of them are very busy in their own respective lives so I doubut the spend any time on here at all. I, on the other hand, have a job that allows me to be on here pretty much whenever I want . I made them aware of the situation and hopefully they will pay attention to it, although I'm not making any promises.

I want to help people like you who are offering criticism and not just here to be immature.

Thanks for the reply
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:25 AM #4
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I do not think mainly one individual and a handful of his followers should be a true guage of the intellegent group of people that have true concerns, and try to voice them. Is their lack of concern, to be read as they do not actually care what the players and supporters have to say is relevant?? Like Pump Scout said, they have one vocal face/voice of the league does not seem to have the temperment to push away the ignorant comments and address the true ones. I think this is one of the main frustrastion with the league.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:55 AM #5
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I do not think mainly one individual and a handful of his followers should be a true guage of the intellegent group of people that have true concerns, and try to voice them. Is their lack of concern, to be read as they do not actually care what the players and supporters have to say is relevant?? Like Pump Scout said, they have one vocal face/voice of the league does not seem to have the temperment to push away the ignorant comments and address the true ones. I think this is one of the main frustrastion with the league.
I agree 100% that there should be someone who makes an effort to check Pbnation and that exactly what I told them. I honestly dont think it's a "lack of concern issue" I just think they genuinely simply didn't know. Now they do though so lets keep our fingers crossed that they took my advice and will pay attention.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:19 AM #6
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There is a monopoly and itís exactly why things DO need to change.
Your false premise arguments lead to false conclusions. One Iím afraid, players cling to in favor of belief rather than reality.
The NPPL does read PbNation, they only say that they donít.
Ok buddy... well at least none of the 3 main guys that I spoke to do. They had no reason to lie to me and I have no reason to lie to you. And I'm not arguing btw... it's a discussion... there's a difference.

If you have a real complaint let them know in person and let me know how it goes.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:25 AM #7
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Honestly If Chuck did not think of reading PBNation to find out what people are saying about the NPPL, thats a problem.

I not one to bad mouth the NPPL at all. I would love this league to succeed. But listening to your clientele base is a big thing. The reffing, the scheduling and alot of the quality has gone downhill. Among the 3 things you listed there is a long list of things the league could do so much better. But if they arent even listening, that is a huge problem.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:29 AM #8
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Ok buddy... well at least none of the 3 main guys that I spoke to do. They had no reason to lie to me and I have no reason to lie to you. And I'm not arguing btw... it's a discussion... there's a difference.

If you have a real complaint let them know in person and let me know how it goes.
I don't think the guy was trying to be lippy. Throughout the last few years, the "NPPL" has had contacts on PBnation with screens names such as NPPL Super 7, Chris@NPPL, and even Camille used to read and post in the NPPL forum. I think the problem is that there is no current "face" of the NPPL in the NPPL forum similar to representation in the PSP and UWL forums, for example.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:53 AM #9
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I don't think the guy was trying to be lippy. Throughout the last few years, the "NPPL" has had contacts on PBnation with screens names such as NPPL Super 7, Chris@NPPL, and even Camille used to read and post in the NPPL forum. I think the problem is that there is no current "face" of the NPPL in the NPPL forum similar to representation in the PSP and UWL forums, for example.
I dont know all the particulars, but the few months last year Ed Poormen was on here, he truly cared and did try to resolve and address issues. I believe it was a big disservice to the players and league getting rid of him. He might not have been able to do anything about situations, but at least voice his concern and tried. You felt at least a little better that someone was listening.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:06 AM #10
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That's true, Ed was on here a good amount, and I'm pretty sure he's not a forum type of guy. He was a known person in the paintball/tournament scene who folks could talk to on a reasonable level.

I can understand and agree that not every person in paintball is going to spend much or any time on any forum. Bob Long comes immediately to mind. However, it's probably a good thing to be aware of, as a business owner or event promoter, that the players congregate in certain places online. Going back to Bob, he's got a couple guys who are more familiar with forums, and they're on here quite a bit.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:30 AM #11
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Ok, I have a small complaint that annoyed my team on Sunday and we hope it can be resolved. Can we please have the refs on field 3 act more professional and focus on reffing instead of asking certain teams when they can take pictures with them? Can pm with details if needed. Thanks.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:04 PM #12
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Hey now- I’m not being antagonistic.

Let’s just consider that I have in the past made mention of both positive and negative values in the NPPL directly and indirectly to league officials and management. Yes, they had responded with great fervency, and I would say, remain to be the best paintball league in the world, both catering to the impressions of players and viably maintaining an interpretation worth some praise- without the inflationary techniques we see in the PSP to overestimate valued worth of players. Do I have a better dialogue, have I solved such problems, met such ends? Sure, but it’s no longer for sale, and for me, that means I can give it away for free.

The word argument was purely a description of the logical inconsistency with comparing DYE/KEE and Coke/Pepsi. “Argument” doesn’t mean I’m here to argue with you. That is what it is called when such comparisons are made. Everyone has a reason to lie, especially in such circumstances to protect themselves. If they have hired you to do a job, take it from me, they want you around.

Is it believable a company would willingly ignore its customers? No, but it makes sense to believe willingly “denying it” allows them the room to make mistakes. And so, they’ve done so for years. This isn’t a surprise to anyone, let alone, most of the sway doesn’t rely on those three anyhow.
Have you considered paintball isn’t all it’s said to be?

The point I was making was perhaps your simplicity is believed elsewhere, which it is.

I know there are plenty of players who feel themselves more valuable in a systematic run of “statistics” with bearings and metric wholly invented. At least the NPPL isn’t lying to themselves, they deal with the ****ty-ness of an abandonment industry, based on consumption and faith over reason and survival supply. The only problem is they haven’t committed to the cowardly market values of said monopoly, at least not recently. heh

Paintball is a war game; we do not play the Cold War ideologue that lead us here, the Survival Game.
Sorry if I misconstrued your tone, that kind of thing is hard to tell over text. About the honesty piece of what you were saying... I was just saying that they didn't have a reason to lie to me about it. We had private conversations and I never mentioned to them that I was going to make a thread like this. I was simply trying to clear things up a bit. This is in no way a defense of those actions... in fact I was defending you as a person with concerns to them. I want them to read your complaints and I want them to fix the problems so everyone is happy.

Ed and Camille are no longer with the company and that's too bad because they are both really good people who did, what I thought, was a great job. I'm not trying to fill their role by any means. I just wanted you guys to know that someone who is at least affiliated hears your complaints and is trying to make it better. I'm not a decision maker for the NPPL but I am in contact with those people who are.

I'm doing my best...
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:05 PM #13
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Ok, I have a small complaint that annoyed my team on Sunday and we hope it can be resolved. Can we please have the refs on field 3 act more professional and focus on reffing instead of asking certain teams when they can take pictures with them? Can pm with details if needed. Thanks.
God field 3 was terrible on Sunday.

My only issue is that with the nppl blowing up my facebook timeline every 30 minutes, then they say they don't have time to check pbnation? They have the time but I personally feel like they think that what they are doing is right and everyone else is wrong. Lane and Camille are on pbnation and they seem to have a busier schedule than the nppl imo. I have loved playing nppl for the last 3 years and have tried to tolerate the inconsistencies but the way I was treated multiple times at the registration booth this year was the last straw.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:12 PM #14
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God field 3 was terrible on Sunday.

My only issue is that with the nppl blowing up my facebook timeline every 30 minutes, then they say they don't have time to check pbnation? They have the time but I personally feel like they think that what they are doing is right and everyone else is wrong. Lane and Camille are on pbnation and they seem to have a busier schedule than the nppl imo. I have loved playing nppl for the last 3 years and have tried to tolerate the inconsistencies but the way I was treated multiple times at the registration booth this year was the last straw.
2nd senetence about Facebook was a great point!!!

I just tried to call Chuck so I could read that to him... as soon as he calls me back I will.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:56 PM #15
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Chris

I appreciate your willingness to actually ask these questions and to give answers. Seems like you are the only "voice or reason" and little gateway to the higher ups of the NPPL. In case you havent looked. This page has 3 pages of complaints and other issues that should be heard,

Thanks

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3964525
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:07 PM #16
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Chris

I appreciate your willingness to actually ask these questions and to give answers. Seems like you are the only "voice or reason" and little gateway to the higher ups of the NPPL. In case you havent looked. This page has 3 pages of complaints and other issues that should be heard,

Thanks

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3964525
Thank you... I will forward that link to Chuck, Pev and Jung ASAP.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:26 PM #17
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Has the NPPL changed their media policy or is it still $75 for a media pass, but you have to submit photos or $150 to shoot, but you don't have to submit photos? If it's still that, then I would seriously consider a media reform.

If you want the NPPL to make a splash, no matter how big or small, then you wouldn't charge photographers to gain access to fields to shoot, have stricter media qualifications (IE, not allowing anyone with a camera access) and actually set up a media tent where we can rest and have water readily available. It's also ridiculous that we have to give the league OUR photos from the event. While the PSP charges for media if you don't have a pro pass, they also don't require us to hand over our photos that we take during the event. If I had to pay for a pass for NPPL or PSP, I'd take PSP any day because I can retain my photographs. I realize that both leagues have more important things to do than worry about media people, but a small gesture is nice. I was told by Jung 2 years ago at Vegas that they were setting up a media tent for us, but we never saw one and I'd be willing to bet that one hasn't been set up last year or at HB.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:33 PM #18
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I agree 100% that there should be someone who makes an effort to check Pbnation and that exactly what I told them. I honestly dont think it's a "lack of concern issue" I just think they genuinely simply didn't know. Now they do though so lets keep our fingers crossed that they took my advice and will pay attention.
So what your saying is.... guys who have been around paintball for so long... guys who are a part of one of the largest national paintball leagues within the sport....guys who are trying to run a business and better their league day by day...............

have never heard or felt like checking the LARGEST PAINTBALL FORUM IN THE WORLD?!

This is probably the worst thing I have ever heard the NPPL doing. It is a lacking of business understanding. In order to make a business successful is to try to constantly improve. You improve by learning from your mistakes, which most times, is voiced to you by your very own customers.

There is a reason why every major business has those little feedback cards or asks you to go online and fill out a survey. You get them at hotels. You get them at restaurants. You get them when you go shopping for clothes, furniture, etc. A lack of caring what your customers have to say in relation to feedback is always going to be a downfall of a business. I have seen this recently with the business I work for. It happens all the time.

I have been saying this recently, and I will continue to say it! Either an extreme change needs to be made within the organization or a few people at the top of the business need to really get their heads out of that dark place and in to the sunlight where many answers are waiting to be heard.

I personally have attempted to help the NPPL with certain things by email and phone and so far the only person I have noticed who really appreciates anyone trying to help make the NPPL better is the guy who runs the website. I even tried emailing the NPPL long ago with my model of creating a paintball fantasy league. After 2-3 replies of telling me how interested they were and hoping to get further involved with the idea the communication simply stopped coming. Trying to help out anyone else within this organization besides spotting problems with the website is like talking to the sidewall of a barnyard.

Edit: On another note to the guy above referring to media passes and charging for them and so on: weeks before the Huntington Beach event, I filled out the media pass form three times only to receive not a single response in return, except for the automated email saying someone would be contacting be shortly. Ha! Of course I heard nothing. I even called to get an update on my media pass and was told to email Chuck, which was fine and I proceeded to send 4 emails to Chuck about getting some updates (whether I was approved or not approved) toward my pass for the event. While emailing the webmaster some issues with the website and working with him to get those fixed, he even forwarded our emails to Chuck to help get me the media pass, again hearing nothing in return. I mean come on guys. I am reaching out to you at the NPPL for a media pass. I am trying to get a hold of you, to give YOU money to stand on YOUR field (I didn't even care about the pro field. I simply wanted divisional) and take pictures only to send them to YOU to promote YOUR BUSINESS. Yet, this is how you decide to treat people who are simply trying to help make sure you don't die to the ever growing PSP. Needless to say, I saw maybe 2 guys taking pictures on the divisional fields all weekend. This, plus another couple guys who had no media pass and simply walked on to the field with staff wristbands and a mask on. I was going to do this too, but decided to keep my morals and simply watch from the sidelines and take a few pictures through the netting for myself.

Please feel free to pm me or anything if you would like to hear more, or possibly even try to make your league better before it's too late.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:31 PM #19
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So what your saying is.... guys who have been around paintball for so long... guys who are a part of one of the largest national paintball leagues within the sport....guys who are trying to run a business and better their league day by day...............

have never heard or felt like checking the LARGEST PAINTBALL FORUM IN THE WORLD?!

This is probably the worst thing I have ever heard the NPPL doing. It is a lacking of business understanding. In order to make a business successful is to try to constantly improve. You improve by learning from your mistakes, which most times, is voiced to you by your very own customers.

There is a reason why every major business has those little feedback cards or asks you to go online and fill out a survey. You get them at hotels. You get them at restaurants. You get them when you go shopping for clothes, furniture, etc. A lack of caring what your customers have to say in relation to feedback is always going to be a downfall of a business. I have seen this recently with the business I work for. It happens all the time.

I have been saying this recently, and I will continue to say it! Either an extreme change needs to be made within the organization or a few people at the top of the business need to really get their heads out of that dark place and in to the sunlight where many answers are waiting to be heard.

I personally have attempted to help the NPPL with certain things by email and phone and so far the only person I have noticed who really appreciates anyone trying to help make the NPPL better is the guy who runs the website. I even tried emailing the NPPL long ago with my model of creating a paintball fantasy league. After 2-3 replies of telling me how interested they were and hoping to get further involved with the idea the communication simply stopped coming. Trying to help out anyone else within this organization besides spotting problems with the website is like talking to the sidewall of a barnyard.

Edit: On another note to the guy above referring to media passes and charging for them and so on: weeks before the Huntington Beach event, I filled out the media pass form three times only to receive not a single response in return, except for the automated email saying someone would be contacting be shortly. Ha! Of course I heard nothing. I even called to get an update on my media pass and was told to email Chuck, which was fine and I proceeded to send 4 emails to Chuck about getting some updates (whether I was approved or not approved) toward my pass for the event. While emailing the webmaster some issues with the website and working with him to get those fixed, he even forwarded our emails to Chuck to help get me the media pass, again hearing nothing in return. I mean come on guys. I am reaching out to you at the NPPL for a media pass. I am trying to get a hold of you, to give YOU money to stand on YOUR field (I didn't even care about the pro field. I simply wanted divisional) and take pictures only to send them to YOU to promote YOUR BUSINESS. Yet, this is how you decide to treat people who are simply trying to help make sure you don't die to the ever growing PSP. Needless to say, I saw maybe 2 guys taking pictures on the divisional fields all weekend. This, plus another couple guys who had no media pass and simply walked on to the field with staff wristbands and a mask on. I was going to do this too, but decided to keep my morals and simply watch from the sidelines and take a few pictures through the netting for myself.

Please feel free to pm me or anything if you would like to hear more, or possibly even try to make your league better before it's too late.
PMing you now...
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:45 PM #20
navigator
Roth
 
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 570 PA
 has been a member for 10 years
navigator plays in the PSP
navigator owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
navigator plays in the APPA D4 division
It's nice to see someone from the NPPL (I'mRickJames) actually responding and trying to help players and teams...
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:41 PM #21
I'm RickJames
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: (703) PEV'S
I'm RickJames supports Pev's Paintball
I'm RickJames plays in the APPA D4 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator View Post
It's nice to see someone from the NPPL (I'mRickJames) actually responding and trying to help players and teams...
Thanks man... I'm not trying to fill your heads with false hope that I'm going to make miracles happen. All I'm doing is saying that I will try to help as much as I can. Just keep in mind, I have no decision making power.
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