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Old 03-11-2013, 12:28 PM #22
knatbrown
 
 
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I used to play a lot back in the hayday, got a 2k cocker new and ended up modding it to oblivion. Never ebladed that one though, and sadly it got stolen before I ever got the chance. REALLY wish I still had that gun. Shoot a modded axe now but I picked up a green/black e2 karni over christmas and it's incredible. Like they said efficiency isn't quite up to today's standards but mine is also still getting dialed in. Its a touch louder, not quite as light (despite being the lightest cocker I've ever held), but speed is insane. Uncapped the rof is just nuts, not to mention the orgasmic nostalgia that the blurred back block creates in my loins, haha. But like they said on boards just make sure to get and e2 atleast. One thing I would highly suggest though if you have the option is to get one with the newer style frame. Being a karnivor mine has the worrblade which is pretty blocky and could use more finger room, but its not too bad. I just had to have the karni though so the frame was a settle for me. In conclusion, its a monster and will hold its own with any gun on the field while at the same time being the most unique, coolest, and sexiest guns around. Now I'm lookin for a solid mech cocker to have for fun
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:54 PM #23
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I think this is the bottom line...an electro cocker (especially with E2, ZeroB, or Tadao) will definitely hold it's own against newer guns. The price of cockers varies widely, so having a price in mind will kind of dictate what you're looking for. Here's an example...you're not going to pick up a good DC2 for $600; but $600 could get you a nice Karnivor. If you're budget is $350, you're probably not going to get a Karni; but you'd likely pick up a nice Orracle, Black Magic, etc...

Autocockers are definitely heavier, and do require more maintenance. I wouldn't say they are less reliable, though. My cockers are well maintained; and most go for a long time before they need any attention as long as I keep them well lubed. But, the advantages of the cocker is they are pretty smooth and pretty quiet.

I have many many markers; and my absolute favorite to shoot and play with is without a doubt my MQ2'd Karni.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:56 AM #24
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Just to give you guys a update. I decided to jump into the A/C's a little. I have a SR A/C on its way, it should be here today or maybe the next. I have also made a deal on a local CL gun, for a real nice looking Black Magic (mech 1 owner gun). Going to get it by this weekend. I showed my kid a video of the SR firing he really got geeked up on it. He has no idea I have bought one.

I had a great talk on the phone with Rick at TC paintball in Grand Rapids, Mi. He has lots of parts and seems to really know his stuff on A/C's. Even though he is 2.5 hours from home. I think It will be worth it to use his tuning service and parts department when needed.

Both guns are supposed to be well tuned, but if an issue arises I am confident it can be solved; between my friends, the A/C resources on PBnation, and Rick at TC Paintball. I think playing with these older guns is going to be real fun.

I am really excited about the Black Magic, it is a really nice looking gun. I thought about Eblading it at first, but it is undrilled so I have decided to keep it a Mech. (This thought came from poking around on the A/C forum on PBnation, drilling is BAD, never would have thought this was an issue.) If I really like the A/C's and want another electro, I think I will just find another Electro A/C. Looking forward to seeing how the SR does. It came real cheap and I bought it on the whim.

Never thought I would get into A/C's like this. I think there is something else motivating me.

The A/C is like a spectre from the past. I left the game in the late 90's as the A/C was really starting to Dominate. I never owned one, only played a few games with a friends gun. Really looking forward to this new season.

I have been researching guns a lot over the past few months. Found it rather strange a month ago I saw some really cool looking A/C's in the BST. Since then I have found my self more interested in these old guns, more than any of the great new guns available today.

Thanks for all the help (posts above or any that follow). Your insights, gave me some confidence to go ahead with this A/C project. I will be posting updates as I get these guns going and have a chance to use them in game conditions.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:06 AM #25
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What can you tell me about DC2's. They seem rather rare. I saw one in BST, it took my breath away. It had a Luxe price.

It looked like it was worth every penny the guy wanted for it.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:07 AM #26
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Originally Posted by bth9461 View Post
What can you tell me about DC2's. They seem rather rare. I saw one in BST, it took my breath away. It had a Luxe price.

It looked like it was worth every penny the guy wanted for it.
Well - basically the DC2 is the last Eclipse autococker. DC1 and DC2 have the same milling; but some parts are slightly different, as well as the frame/board. These usually range in price from $1200-$1500 depending on color, condition, and extras.


For Nexus Directors Cut 2 there was approx 146 made.
The DC2 came in Turbulence, Black Jack, Graphite II, and Pink Lady.
There were 25 Pink Lady's.
There were also "Custom" colors made, Platinum being one of them that was "available"
and of the 146 there were only 22 made in this color.
There was also 1 ultra rare Blood Red produced at a customers request.
There was also the super rare Red2Black fade and Blue2Black fade.

This is a picture of my Nexus Signature (graphite fade) and DC2 (Platinum)




Last edited by holson72 : 03-13-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:36 AM #27
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Well - basically the DC2 is the last Eclipse autococker. DC1 and DC2 have the same milling; but some parts are slightly different, as well as the frame/board. These usually range in price from $1200-$1500 depending on color, condition, and extras.


For Nexus Directors Cut 2 there was approx 146 made.
The DC2 came in Turbulence, Black Jack, Graphite II, and Pink Lady.
There were 25 Pink Lady's.
There were also "Custom" colors made, Platinum being one of them that was "available"
and of the 146 there were only 22 made in this color.
There was also 1 ultra rare Blood Red produced at a customers request.
There was also the super rare Red2Black fade and Blue2Black fade.

This is a picture of my Nexus Signature (graphite fade) and DC2 (Platinum)



Sweet.....................

Does it shoot as sweet as it looks?

How does it shoot compared to say a Karnivor? Which seem to carry a pretty good price 4-600, and seem to be much more available.

Are all the DC's wall hangers? Do you ever use it in a game? Not sure if I could. Considering how rare they are.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:02 PM #28
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I fixed the first picture now.

Anyway, for some reason the Nexus and DC2 do seem to shoot smoother than the other cockers I own (with one exception, that I'll get to later). Part of it is that they used the best parts available at the time...the other parts seems that they just have tighter tolerances. Most DC2 owners will tell you the same thing. They seem to shoot better...but it's hard to explain. Mine is not a wall hanger, but I am kind of picky about when I play with it.

Now, the exception...I have an MQ2'd Karnivor. None of my autocockers compare to it for smoothness and quietness. In fact, I'd put it up against my Crome 2. The Karnivor is heavier, so I'm sure that helps...but it's still a SWEET SWEET shooter. It was about 1/2 the price of my DC2.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:12 PM #29
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:40 PM #30
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Wait a minute. . . . Are ^those^ guns for sale?
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:45 AM #31
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Considering the customizable nature of A/C's. Could one be built from the ground up that was even better than these limited production models? By someone that was highly skilled in A/C smithing.

Assuming you had top quality parts.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:53 AM #32
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Well...honestly without an MQ2 valve nothing shoots quite as good as a Nexus Signature, DC1, or DC2. I have several autocockers...very few with stock parts (see my signature for more details).

Now - if you put an MQ2 into the equation....it's a different ballgame. I think my MQ2'd Karnivor shoots better (smoother/quieter) than either my Nexus Sig or DC2. Also...this sounds like it couldn't be true...but an MQ2'd DC2 is not a better shooter than a stock DC2 (at least in my comparison).

My opinion...the best shooting cocker with a hammer is an Eclipse Nexus/DC (followed by a Belsales Evolution), and without a hammer it's an MQ2'd Karnivor. The Karnivor could be built for less than a stock Nexus Signature would cost. I also built an MQ2'd 05+ Black Magic...the sum of the parts indicated it should shoot at least as good as the Karnivor, if not better due to lower reciprocating weight - but that was not the case. The Karnivor is by far the better shooter.

I also have a two very heavily modified Orracles...and even though they have the same internal parts and pneumatics as a DC2, it's just not as sweet of a shooter.


*My concept of a good shooting autococker is based on smoothness first and quietness to a lesser degree (although the barrel has as much of an impact on that as the gun itself does). I don't get involved with speed because I shoot semi only, and all of my guns have NO issue up to 17 bps. If you're looking for one that shoots faster than that, then I have no constructive advice.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:43 PM #33
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If you build the gun to the way you want it and like...it'll always be better then anything.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:03 PM #34
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They can perform pretty well, but they have a lot of things to break.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:40 PM #35
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They usually tend to break because they have all those lovely moving parts that makes people want to mess with it. All the parts are made from the same materials that every other gun is, and uses the same orings, so its usually the function of it properly cycling to shooting paint that troubles people. As far as performance I'd say the newer black magics would hold its own if they didn't have that crappy select fire frame. Cutting that backblock down into a sled, removing half the bolt, removing the cocking rod, and cutting a third of the pump arm off makes a huge difference in how fast it shoots and how it feels. Add some qev's and you have a snappy shooting cocker.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:48 PM #36
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Well...honestly without an MQ2 valve nothing shoots quite as good as a Nexus Signature, DC1, or DC2. I have several autocockers...very few with stock parts (see my signature for more details).

Now - if you put an MQ2 into the equation....it's a different ballgame. I think my MQ2'd Karnivor shoots better (smoother/quieter) than either my Nexus Sig or DC2. Also...this sounds like it couldn't be true...but an MQ2'd DC2 is not a better shooter than a stock DC2 (at least in my comparison).

My opinion...the best shooting cocker with a hammer is an Eclipse Nexus/DC (followed by a Belsales Evolution), and without a hammer it's an MQ2'd Karnivor. The Karnivor could be built for less than a stock Nexus Signature would cost. I also built an MQ2'd 05+ Black Magic...the sum of the parts indicated it should shoot at least as good as the Karnivor, if not better due to lower reciprocating weight - but that was not the case. The Karnivor is by far the better shooter.

I also have a two very heavily modified Orracles...and even though they have the same internal parts and pneumatics as a DC2, it's just not as sweet of a shooter.


*My concept of a good shooting autococker is based on smoothness first and quietness to a lesser degree (although the barrel has as much of an impact on that as the gun itself does). I don't get involved with speed because I shoot semi only, and all of my guns have NO issue up to 17 bps. If you're looking for one that shoots faster than that, then I have no constructive advice.
Speed has really been eliminated from the equation by the rules. Seems like most tourney and Rec fields have caps lower than your 17 bps. Frankly for REC play I think I can get by with my Mech Black Magic. But would really like a nice shooting Custom electro A/C also.

So a Karnivor would make the best platform to build a Custom A/C? You could potentially get a Better "shooter" than a Nexus/DC1/DC2?
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:07 PM #37
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They usually tend to break because they have all those lovely moving parts that makes people want to mess with it. All the parts are made from the same materials that every other gun is, and uses the same orings, so its usually the function of it properly cycling to shooting paint that troubles people. As far as performance I'd say the newer black magics would hold its own if they didn't have that crappy select fire frame. Cutting that backblock down into a sled, removing half the bolt, removing the cocking rod, and cutting a third of the pump arm off makes a huge difference in how fast it shoots and how it feels. Add some qev's and you have a snappy shooting cocker.
Are you talking about the E2 Black Magic SF 05 electro? That gun has some smooth looking lines. Would this gun give the Karnivor a run for its money?
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:39 AM #38
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The SR is really good, the only problem is the trigger frame. If you don't like it, I am pretty sure an E-blade will fit right on without any modification.
Also, all of the pneumatics are routed through the body, so you don't have to worry about damaging them or them getting coated with dirt/sand while you're playing.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:33 AM #39
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The SR is really good, the only problem is the trigger frame. If you don't like it, I am pretty sure an E-blade will fit right on without any modification.
Also, all of the pneumatics are routed through the body, so you don't have to worry about damaging them or them getting coated with dirt/sand while you're playing.
I picked up one of those on the BST a couple of weeks ago. Got it for my kid. It shoots pretty nice. But having some trouble with ball breaks in the bolt. Just using old crappy paint. But I have shot a shocker, BM mech, and 2 Minis without trouble. The A5 was breaking it in the barrel the worst though.

So not too concerned with the SR yet. Just worried about the breaks in the bolt. I saw some posts on the tempermental nature of this gun. I just need to find them again. I am going to put some effort into this gun. PC, like you mentioned enclosed pneumatics I think will be a big benefit for him.

As for me, well it is those exposed classic looks of A/C's that is part of the appeal for me personally. I know a brand new Vet is a much better car today preformance wise. But a highly tuned 1967 vet can go fast enough, but looks way coooler. At least to me. I could never see me buying a Luxe, but I could see spending some serious money on a premo DC2. Or building a custom A/C and putting some serious money into it.

So looking forward to learning about this SR, but I think I will eventually do something with a classic looking eCocker also.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:01 PM #40
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Are you talking about the E2 Black Magic SF 05 electro? That gun has some smooth looking lines. Would this gun give the Karnivor a run for its money?

I built an 05+ Black Magic with the same parts as my Karni (MQ2, etc) and it was not as smooth of a shooter as the Karnivor. Another friend of mine had a similar experience with an MQ2'd Karni vs MQ2'd 05+ BM.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:21 PM #41
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I built an 05+ Black Magic with the same parts as my Karni (MQ2, etc) and it was not as smooth of a shooter as the Karnivor. Another friend of mine had a similar experience with an MQ2'd Karni vs MQ2'd 05+ BM.
I missed that comparison in your first post. So it seems that what I should be looking for is a nice e2 Karni to start with. Then start modifying from that point. Maybe looking for one with a MQ2 already.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:48 AM #42
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This is answered by the Resurrection Autococker coming back into production.
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