Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2013, 12:40 PM #64
retread
iostream
 
retread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So Cal
retread owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
There was one other user at my local shop but adjusting his settings (as discussed in this thread) was enough to resolve his issue. My other Spire works fine and I LOVE it...others on here have had Virtue fix their loaders it sounds like. I need to send the one I have with this issue in for service as we have done all we can at this point - changed settings, replaced circuit board, tried several sets of new batteries. Both of my Spires work but this white and green one is annoying to play with when it is doing this the whole game it's distracting and it's certainly wearing down my batteries faster then it would otherwise. Hoping to box my green one up to send in to Virtue this week. I think at this point it sounds like a relatively low percentage but it is still a relatively newer hopper so not sure how many Virtue has sold and how many have reported this issue. Having had this issue myself...I still grab my Spire to play with over my Rotor and other hoppers as the black one I fill with paint, and turn it on...and to quote Ron Popeil "Set it and Forget it" lol

I have YET to jam with the Spire even when I've had broken paint soup in my hopper it still feeds and my rotor, pinokio, halo, and Prophecy have all failed when that happened to me. Not that you want to feed wet paint in your marker as that is NOT going to shoot very effectively but I could still shoot and help out my team to a degree lol. Anyway, it has impressed me in every way and being the owner of I think every hopper but a VMAX which seems to be a smaller Pinokio in design/function the Spire is still my favorite. I play every week and other than when I have an older mech like my autocockers or something that at best may shoot 12 bps on a good day...I may use my Revi in those cases. Otherwise, it's the Spire...and whether it is tourny paint or field paint it seems to feed and feed and feed and keep up with my DM, Axe, Ego, Geo, you name it.

In terms of Virtue support...I had a staff member contact me early on in this thread and they had me adjust settings and when that alone did not resolve then they sent me out a replacement board to try immediately. Unfortunately, that did not work so I'll have to send it in but I thought at least collecting data and getting a sense from other Spire owners if they had this same issue might also help both Virtue and the community ensure a better player experience and ultimately a better product.

I also REALLY like the spring finger speed feed. It's more than pretty much all other speed feeds but it does it's job for sure. I've been really happy with that and heck I think they have them for rotors and other hoppers now also.

I'll post up again when I get my Spire back from Virtue but just because some users seem to see this I don't think it means they ALL have a problem...and certainly my other Spire does NOT see this unless it is really low on batteries. Also, I think it's important to note that the Spire DOES seem a LOT more active than most loaders I have used. It DOES make some gyrations as it does it's think and hits a ball or several balls that don't want to feed and starts to unjam itself. So what I have seen is that with paint that is out of round...that normally jams my Rotor...feeds in the Spire...BUT...I can see and hear the Spire actively flipping those balls up and out of the way until they situate in a position such that they feed without jamming. Which is GREAT...but if you've been following this thread and then see that I wouldn't want you to think you have THIS problem which is that at rest it just seems to pulse and pulse like there is not enough tension from a full or partially full hopper of paint to stop it from trying to feed (like it thinks the hopper is empty).

Anyway, sorry to be long winded but in the end again...I keep reaching for this hopper over all the others in my bag of tricks. That is just me...the paint you play with(sometimes I HAVE to buy field paint due to local field rules), your regional weather conditions (I'm here in SoCal), and the guns you use may be a factor in your own decision on which one you grab.
retread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-05-2013, 12:58 PM #65
ThexAlchemist
US Army
 
ThexAlchemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
ThexAlchemist supports Team VICIOUS
ThexAlchemist supports Team VICIOUS
ThexAlchemist plays in the APPA D5 division
^
__________________
Assume nothing, expect anything.
ThexAlchemist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 01:18 PM #66
retread
iostream
 
retread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So Cal
retread owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Ok...finally did it...managed to get some time in between everything else going on...to box up this white/green spire with this issue, along with a nice letter to Virtue, and included a print out of this ENTIRE thread and the emails I exchanged with Virtue about this issue (as well as copies of my receipts) so the ball is in their court now! I will post up again when I get it back or if I have any news back from Virtue on this issue. I am using my black Spire that does NOT have this issue now and loving every minute of it!

Brian
Retread Paintball
retread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 01:51 PM #67
H4ZE
Fast Shots Photo
 
H4ZE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: atlanta
Annual Supporting Member
H4ZE owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
H4ZE owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
H4ZE owns a Planet Eclipse GSL
I should have updated already.

I sent in my spire to Virtue (pulsing issue) and 4 days later I got it back with a whole new tray installed. It now works perfectly!!!
__________________
Live every day like it's your last !

Ga. Lucky CharmZ #75

Click here to see
►►My 270+100% Ebay feedback◄◄
H4ZE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 12:14 AM #68
retread
iostream
 
retread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So Cal
retread owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by H4ZE View Post
I should have updated already.

I sent in my spire to Virtue (pulsing issue) and 4 days later I got it back with a whole new tray installed. It now works perfectly!!!
VERY good to hear that Virtue took care of you. Did they happen to mention what was wrong and what in the tray needed to be fixed/replaced? I (and I think others here as well) are very curious.

Thanks for the again for the follow up!
retread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 02:03 PM #69
Fallon18
 
 
Fallon18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: kingsport, tenn
Fallon18 plays in the PSP
Fallon18 plays in the APPA D3 division
alright guys i have a all black spire i bought and new a month ago from virtue. It has the v7.0 board .I have tried all the recommended settings an have even turned the drive pressure (yellow) and G-force Sensitivity (red) both to 1. and put new batteries in. I still had the popcorn issue after 1 shot and would ha to turn it off and back on to stop. There were 3 other spires and mine was the only one that was doing this. i was gonna see if it was doing the same today , but its working fine now pulsing 1 or 2 times then stopping. Is there a reset time? at the cfoa last week it just constantly pulsed all day.(i rather this than jamming) what to try next?
Fallon18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 10:36 PM #70
retread
iostream
 
retread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So Cal
retread owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
I think there are two different behaviors of the Spire so we want to be careful that we don't confuse the two. There is what we have been discussing in this thread which is the event where the Spire will start pulsing as if it is trying to feed paint even when it is full or nearly full of paint. It routinely should pulse when it thinks it needs to (like when you fire) but then stop when there is enough resistance (from being full or nearly full of paint or at least enough paint to trigger enough resistance on the stack of paint in the feedneck). In essence...you stop firing...maybe one or two and sometimes three pulses and then STOP until you start firing again or if you are nearly out of paint and it's trying to scavenge the last few balls as they are rolling around on the tray.

Then....there is another behavior of the Spire that to most people with experience with other hoppers may recognize as "popcorning" and that is when balls start bouncing around and ricocheting off the top of the shell (the roof inside the hopper shell when the hopper is closed that is) kinda like when popping popcorn and hence the name. Older agitating hoppers used to do this a lot especially if they were the type that kept little blades spinning at all times and when you started to run low the blades spun at the same speed all the time and would shoot the paint all over like that popcorn style.

However, in terms of the Spire. The Spire does exhibit similar behavior I have seen at times but instead it is by design. You will see it pop balls up and out of the way and get very active in general when to prevent a jam. Sometimes I play at a park where there HIGH level field paint is really out of round (in other words oblong, egg, or oval even) sometimes. That paint is difficult to feed and jams my other hoppers at times but the Spire will popcorn those around UNTIL they drop in and feed and continue to feed other paint balls that are not out of round at the same time. That is pretty amazing but in this case that popcorn behavior happens and then goes back to normal once the anti jam activity is no longer needed. So if this is happening then I would suggest first checking your paint but if it happens and KEEPS happening all the time or gets stuck in a loop or something doing that...it might not be normal and you might want to try to record that if possible to Virtue can take a look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallon18 View Post
I still had the popcorn issue after 1 shot and would ha to turn it off and back on to stop. i was gonna see if it was doing the same today , but its working fine now pulsing 1 or 2 times then stopping. Is there a reset time? at the cfoa last week it just constantly pulsed all day.(i rather this than jamming) what to try next?
retread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 10:50 PM #71
retread
iostream
 
retread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So Cal
retread owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Just an update...I got a call from Virtue today about the white and green hopper here from my video that started this whole thread off. The tech told me he went through it and replaced the board again and reset the settings and had it shooting on his Geo without any problems. I stated that I was more easily about to reproduce the issue on a less smooth gun than a Geo (like my Ego) and to please test it out on a gun like that first as well before sending it back and he said he would.

I had shipped this whole package off with a print out of this entire thread (ended up being quite a few pages) as well as copies of my receipts etc. I also let him know on the phone that this was sent after having started this thread and that a lot of folks have been watching this. I even had some emails of OTHER blogs and videos out there talking about the Spire and referring back to this thread. Therefore, I suggested/recommended that he ask Virtue to officially post back again on this thread about this issue, especially since others had reported encountering this behavior. He said also that he would bring it up with others at Virtue as well so I am hopeful that they will.

Some other things from the conversation I should mention before I forget them is that he did state that from his own experience that sometimes this seems to occur more right out of the box and that there may need to have some break in when it comes to the paddle material itself. That there may be some oils or residue on the paddles as part of the manufacturing process. Someone on this thread had suggested that earlier as well if you go back and read through it and I felt it had enough merit that early on I actually went in and at least made sure I wiped mine clean with a microfiber cloth. I asked the tech though if he thought there was a minimum period for this to occur (similar to how you want to break in a gun and I know like my EGO 11 DEFINITELY needed some time and paint to settle a bit) but this tech did not state X number of cases or anything like that. I can see the point so some of you other folks if yours was also new like mine was and take it right out of the box and shoot it and run in to this right away it's something to consider.

Anyway, he said he would ship it back to me with a fresh set of batteries and so I should be able to pick it right up out of the box and shoot it without issue. So....we'll post up that video as soon as the Spire is back!

Thanks for reading my novels here on this...just hoping to help others in the paintball community and that's a big part of my personal goal with retread paintball...check us out on faceboook and youtube if these kinds of things interest you! The more support we get the more we want to do!
retread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 11:03 PM #72
baggedbirds
 
 
baggedbirds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Fresno,CA
I was the one who mentioned the possible oily paddles. Like yours, cleaning them off didn't change the performance. My paddles are even getting little pieces of rubber hanging from the tips of the paddles. They appear to be rubbing the raceway a little. After a day or two of playing I can pick off the little rubber trailers.

Mine performs great for about 1 day on fresh batteries, then it get the plusing back.
__________________
Angel - 05 Speed
Warped Sportz - Dark Axe
baggedbirds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2013, 09:09 PM #73
going_home
Hebrews 13:8
 
going_home's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Florida
Annual Supporting Member
going_home owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Unhappy

Having the same "never stops pulsing" issue.
It gives your position away in the woods, very annoying.
Guess I need to call Virtue Monday.

going_home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 03:56 PM #74
blklight
Battle Rapping
 
blklight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oklahoma
blklight plays in the PSP
blklight plays in the APPA D4 division
So many ppl posting with the same problem, any official update as to a fix or that newer sold units don't have this issue?
__________________
Jeff Phillips

PAINTBALL CLUB OF CHOCTAW
http://paintballclubofchoctaw.com
blklight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 05:07 PM #75
retread
iostream
 
retread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So Cal
retread owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Nothing new yet...I haven't received mine back from Virtue yet but to be clear mine was only purchased back in January so it IS a newer unit. Even had the newer board. I sent in my letter to Virtue that I thought they should post again to this thread to let folks know since I keep getting asked about it at my local fields as well from people that know me and this thread and also that see my with my other Spire.
retread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2013, 10:05 PM #76
KrazieGuy
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Stockton, CA
KrazieGuy is a founding member
Thanks for keeping us updated retread... Hopefully we get a response and a fix from Virtue
KrazieGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 06:03 PM #77
frenchy2475
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
frenchy2475 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
frenchy2475 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
frenchy2475 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by going_home View Post
Having the same "never stops pulsing" issue.
It gives your position away in the woods, very annoying.
Guess I need to call Virtue Monday.

It saddens me to hear this as I use my spire for woodsball and its one of the loaders major pluses for me that it is so quiet.

I got one of the first lot and its as good as gold, would never go back to a rotor.

To you and all the guys in this thread having issues hang with it Im sure Virtue will have a fix.
frenchy2475 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 05:02 PM #78
James110609
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
I was having a frequent problem of the spire pop corning like crazy after one shot and I fixed it by changing the red setting from the default of 3 to a setting of 2. Now it works flawlessly.
James110609 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:49 PM #79
retread
iostream
 
retread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So Cal
retread owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread supports Team VICIOUS
retread has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Hey folks...just an update...still working through this with Virtue...should have some more info soon. As a side note...I am still using my other Spire and it works great and have not gone back to any of my other hoppers so far except on my pump guns or my mechs where a faster loader or an electric loader of this caliber at least is either not necessary or overkill.
retread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 01:06 AM #80
Critikalstrike
 
 
Critikalstrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Greenville SC
Critikalstrike owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Critikalstrike has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Critikalstrike has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Critikalstrike supports DLX Technology
My spire has a similar issue where it will pulsate constantly when the hopper isn't upright. I have to pretty much point my gun up at a 45 degree angle to get it to stop pulsating even when there is over a pod of paint in it. I had to set the tension to 1 blink just to get those results, with the stock setting of 2 it will pulsate a dozen times before it will "feel" the paintballs even when full. It looks like it is just pushing under the balls even though the raceway and ball stack is full.
Critikalstrike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:01 AM #81
DarkRipper
Elite
 
DarkRipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: VA
Annual Supporting Member
DarkRipper is a founding member
DarkRipper is BST Legit
DarkRipper donated to help Peyton Trent
DarkRipper owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
DarkRipper is Boss
I bought a Spire back when they were first available through Virtue.

I gave up on it because it would popcorn and spin continuously. I tried playing with the settings but finally gave up and traded it for a Rotor and a Z2.

I've considered giving them another try now that they've been out a while, but I see people are still dealing with the issues.

:sadface:
__________________
My old feedback
My new feedback

old school PBC admin... keeping it real


Please read and rate my reviews! =) ---> Here!
DarkRipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 02:48 PM #82
VPB-ChristianW
Virtue Paintball
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
VPB-ChristianW works for a Paintball manufacturer
VPB-ChristianW donated to help Peyton Trent
To feed or not to feed, that is the question

DarkRipper - I'm not sure the best way to answer that question. I don't want to say every loader ever shipped is perfect (they are tested 3 times in 3 different ways, but even then things vary). But it's not an "issue" with the vast vast majority of loaders. I talked to Tom last week and I think he said they had 6 Spires in over the last 3 weeks (one was for a bad sensor, one was for a broken piece of plastic, one was for this "over spinning" issue, and I can't remember the others). We've sold a lot of loaders, and we're really happy with just how few issues we've had. Any loader, Spire, Rotor, Z2, etc. that relies on motors, plastics, electronics, is going to have varying degrees of tech support required. I can't speak to their rates, but I know ours are pretty low.

There are a couple issues at play, as has been pointed out but I want to summarize them and give some thoughts on the product.

The Spire is designed to give priority in feeding. Both the mechanical operation of the Spire (spring + flexible fingers) as well as the electrical (motor tension + shot detection software). In sense, if you had to choose between a loader that jammed frequently, or randomly jammed, or a loader that tried to feed (with no adverse affects to paint) we'd chose to have a loader that didn't have jamming issues. This is a philosophical approach to what we did at the hardware + software level, combined with respecting existing patents out there.

If anyone is having this issue, the fastest way to get help is to simply call us: 631-617-5346.


The Spire gives priority to feeding.
It wants to feed when it detects a shot from the G-force sensor, and if it doesn't "feel" any paint after you shoot, it keeps slowly spinning to make sure you never end up in a situation where you have paint in the loader, but none in the gun and your gun won't shoot because the eyes don't see a ball, and your Spire won't feed because your gun won't shoot.

If we were using a paddle without springs + flexible arms, the over spinning wouldn't happen because the paddle would hit the ball and stop after the ball doesn't feed.

But since the springs + flexible arms effectively allow the paddles to slide under the paint to clear potential jams (and keep feeding plus be soft on paint) there is a balance in detecting the precise point in where the Spire is loaded compared to when it should try to keep feeding. On the plus side, the only downside is wasted batteries and annoyance (rather than the alternative of breaking paint or jamming up). But this extra spinning is not something that should be common place or you should have to live with -- that's why we have settings there in the first place, to make a quick adjustment to most likely fix the issue and why we have tech support, to replace any part that isn't functioning properly.

Also, keep in mind (as I'm sure most of you are aware, but just putting it here for the record) that if the batteries are low, or a poor quality that puts out too low a voltage (even when fresh) then there will not be enough power to keep the motor from spinning when loaded.

Ultimately, the point is that there are thousands of people out there now with Spires that don't constantly spin when loaded. If your Spire is spinning too often, that is a problem we want to fix for you. I wouldn't ever believe someone if they promised their entire product line has a 0% failure rate. There are thousands of individual Spire users who have 0% issue rates, but naturally from time to time there will be issues.

With some loaders the issue the manufacturer needs to fix is they break paint, or they jam, or the eyes stop working, or the motor fails, or there is a bad board, etc. etc. With the Spire, the issue that comes up from time to time is it tries to feed too often. It's not the worst issue to have, but like I said it's not something anyone should live with.

If it happens, give us a call. We're eager to take care of it.

Last edited by VPB-ChristianW : 04-02-2013 at 02:55 PM.
VPB-ChristianW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 03:08 PM #83
baggedbirds
 
 
baggedbirds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Fresno,CA
Thanks for the reply. Love the customer service, for me I just feel bad about calling in when it works "well enough" for me to use although maybe not optimally. I might reconsider a call, thanks

I did see some visual changes on the board and the top of the spire from a friend who just bought one Friday.
__________________
Angel - 05 Speed
Warped Sportz - Dark Axe
baggedbirds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 02:59 PM #84
DarkRipper
Elite
 
DarkRipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: VA
Annual Supporting Member
DarkRipper is a founding member
DarkRipper is BST Legit
DarkRipper donated to help Peyton Trent
DarkRipper owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
DarkRipper is Boss
VPB-ChristianW:

I didn't want my post to come across as a complaint about Virtue in general, I love your products...
I use your soft cycle, board, and speedfeed on two different Rotors (one Rotor has Seed instead of a Virtue board), I have an NT11/DM11-12-13 OLED Virtue board in my DM12, and I REALLY liked the Spire and was a big proponent of it at my local field even through the issues I had.

The quick strip feature rivals the Rotor's, the electronics are super simple to work with, and the new speedfeed is fantastic.

I suppose I should've called and gotten some support, but I was frustrated and just traded it off (I did advise the person who got it about the problems!).

I believe that 99% of your hoppers are working perfectly, the 1% you're hearing about is only because most people who are happy won't say anything, it's the ones who have an issue who make the noise...

I have no doubt you'll sort this out for people affected.

V/R
DR
__________________
My old feedback
My new feedback

old school PBC admin... keeping it real


Please read and rate my reviews! =) ---> Here!
DarkRipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump