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Old 02-28-2013, 05:53 PM #106
cycocivic
 
 
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i own the gold evo that sold off the bay not to recently. they are definitely nice markers with classy milling and top of the line parts.

i think the belsales trigger plate is just as good as the aka plate, in terms of performance, as mine has a very positive feel when you pull the trigger. why pay $25+ for something with marginal gains. i also prefer the aka sidewinder/asa over the gas-thru/dual reg airsystems, both are consistent but the ability to change air tanks at a whims notice appeals to me more. also the sidewinder is worth at least $50+ when the matching gas-thru is not worth squat performance wise. same goes with the feedneck.

if i was offer $1200 for mine...no brainer.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:00 PM #107
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Originally Posted by cycocivic View Post
i own the gold evo that sold off the bay not to recently. they are definitely nice markers with classy milling and top of the line parts.

i think the belsales trigger plate is just as good as the aka plate, in terms of performance, as mine has a very positive feel when you pull the trigger. why pay $25+ for something with marginal gains. i also prefer the aka sidewinder/asa over the gas-thru/dual reg airsystems, both are consistent but the ability to change air tanks at a whims notice appeals to me more. also the sidewinder is worth at least $50+ when the matching gas-thru is not worth squat performance wise. same goes with the feedneck.

if i was offer $1200 for mine...no brainer.
The Belsales plate is my second favorite one made, but it stops a little too far back in the frame for me. This is a problem when using the Hollowpoint 3way because the stem will only go so far back until it stops (it will only come out the front and not the back). So my Hollowpoint was effectively acting as my rear trigger stop instead of the back trigger plate hitting the frame. Since the AKA plate stops earlier in the pull, I don't have the issue with the Hollowpoint having stopping the trigger by itself. The AKA trigger plate also has a smaller slot for the timing rod and is a few thousands wider than the Belsales plate. It's just all around a better trigger plate, but I can understand why someone wouldn't find it necessary. I think they are actually $35 new, not cheap at all, but I found it worth it for me.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:52 AM #108
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I completely agree with you on the aka trigger plates. They are worth every penny, imho.

Simon from Kee recently traded his bnib dye dam for an evo x, and I think those are valued over $1000. Nick Slowiak also just paid $1100 for a yellow to black fade evo x. They still seem to hold their value well to certain people who are willing to obtain one, especially if one can find an undrilled specimen with a matching angry slide frame.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:34 AM #109
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Most things that are quality made, tend to hold their value over the years. Especially if they are no longer made.

Evolutions (undrilled ones are easily over $900, some over $1k)
AKA Guns: Vikings, Merlins, ect
SFL Mags
KPs (the wooden stocked, "shotgun" looking guns)

Products known for their quality and aren't made anymore results in high demand, low supply. Opens up the wallet a little bit. Also, they usually have a cult-like following.

Some just enjoy the thrill of the hunt.

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Old 03-01-2013, 08:10 PM #110
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There really isn't much machining needed to get an autococker to shoot like an Evolution. It's not like they did anything special to the bodies that would have to be recreated like Freeflow super polishing the tubes in their autocockers. With the right components almost any cocker body can be used to shoot like an Evolution. If you're referencing the p-block, most 2k guns had a lighter backblock/bolt than Evolutions. The p-block leads to higher recoil because the increased mass. It doesn't mean they don't look cool though.
not looking for an argument here but you're wrong sir. The P block is actually quite light because of the mass they removed from the bolt to shorten it for the new length. Also Evo bodies aren't just random bodies, they were hand selected and QC approved before they were ever milled.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:20 PM #111
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If you're using an aluminum bolt you're probably right but the extra aluminum on the pblock outweights the little bit of extra plastic when using delrin bolts. I guess I should have clarified that. And I've never seen any benefits of an Evolution body over a regular stock body. I always thought that little bit was more hype than anything, kinda like Freeflow super polishing their tubes.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:36 PM #112
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If you're using an aluminum bolt you're probably right but the extra aluminum on the pblock outweights the little bit of extra plastic when using delrin bolts. I guess I should have clarified that. And I've never seen any benefits of an Evolution body over a regular stock body. I always thought that little bit was more hype than anything, kinda like Freeflow super polishing their tubes.
The P Block was designed to take excess force off of the joint of the pump arm and backblock, created by the bolt in the body and backblock....I think.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:57 PM #113
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I'll get a pic of my mech evo up sometime tomorrow. Until then, I would LOVE to find a pre99 evolution. Especially in the silver but Im not picky.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:57 PM #114
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I didn't know that. It makes sense if the back block and pump arm threads didn't fit together nicely. I still think a standard bodied autococker can shoot just as nice as pblocked autocockers. I have seen a few stock bodies that didn't seem up to par but with the right parts almost any autococker can shoot like the best of them.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:43 PM #115
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imho, i think it was made mostly for looks and uniqueness, saving weight was just an added benefit. it also meant extra milling and custom bb/bolt had to be made=$$$. both bb are attached the same way(screw in hole) and move in the same linear direction. it was a way to differentiate them from all other cockers during that era.

i also think any cocker can be made to perform like the "best" cocker but that has to do more with using the performance oriented/reliable parts and the important thing of all...tuning.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:14 AM #116
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i also think any cocker can be made to perform like the "best" cocker but that has to do more with using the performance oriented/reliable parts and the important thing of all...tuning.
yep..a cocker is a cocker is a cocker.

but an evo that is tuned to perfection is more than that as anyone who has had one straight from the factory will tell you..it leaves a lasting impression.

i think the real problem is we all love to mess with them... and poof.. the real magic is gone.

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Old 03-03-2013, 09:21 AM #117
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It was the only gun that Ravi said he didn't feel like he needed to retime upon receiving one new and he was a fan of short-n-crispy triggers. I don't know if I've ever had to pleasure to shoot one that I knew for certain was still factory timed.
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:16 PM #118
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The only way anyone could know for certain that they were firing a factory timed belsales evolution is if they bought it new directly from smart parts.

Steve and Keith are alive and well over at Belsales. I suppose anyone wanting their Evo "restored" to factory timing can always ship it overseas to the UK to get it re-timed by the guys who built it in the first place.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:14 AM #119
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Were the Evo's the only cockers to use wire detents???
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:20 AM #120
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No. A lot of shops had wire detents like early Shocktechs, Freeflows (Warped Sports included), AKA, P&P, Carter, and others. Some of the first cocker bodies didn't have detents. So people had to installed their own. Wire detents were popular early on but ball bearing detents won out and eventually came standard. I don't know exactly why. It seems wire detents are simpler and just as easy to mill the body for, but I'm sure there was a reason for ball bearing detents were chosen.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:23 AM #121
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I found a cocker on ebay with wire detents and I got all excited.Thought it was special model but it looks like its a Freeflow cocker. The wire detents threw me off. I thought they were an Evo only trait
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:53 PM #122
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if it's any consolation, wire detents on a FreeFlow is an indicator that it isn't one of their Chinese guns.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:57 PM #123
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CCM's also used wire detents.

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Old 03-13-2013, 05:39 PM #124
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:59 AM #125
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Should I post to new in box evolution pics for you guys to jerk off to? Looks like I might have a Gold mine in my basement.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:33 AM #126
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Were the Evo's the only cockers to use wire detents???
Not the only one to use them, but certainly the last. Most other companies gave them up in favor of ball detentes, for a multitude of reasons. I've always thought AKALMP was the only one to get wire detentes right, and even then they eventually moved on to quad ball detentes.



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I don't know exactly why. It seems wire detents are simpler and just as easy to mill the body for, but I'm sure there was a reason for ball bearing detents were chosen.
1) Easier to drill/thread one hole than to mill a thin channel at varying depths and then drill/thread a smaller hole.

2) Delrin or even stainless steel balls are more gentle than pointy metal.

3) Ball and finger detentes are often adjustable, either way they extend further in the breach.

4) Screw-in ball detentes offer less places for muck and paint to creep into.

5) Ever had wire detente snap or bend during a game? Slice city.
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