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Old 02-22-2013, 01:17 AM #64
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Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
D1 players can still play ramping....

It's not exactly harder, but you have to focus on the trigger more if it's not reflexive.
I mentioned d1 because its the highest ranked players ive talked to and asked about this question
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:41 AM #65
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Originally Posted by Fat_Joe View Post



I worked in this industry up until 2004, and even in 04, it was still going strong, even in the northeast. When the economy started to crash, so did frivolous hobbies. Its not rocket science....I mean for christ sake they even debated whether or not constant air was ruining the game back in the late 80s. I mean get over it.
I was agreeing with you..... but ok.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:43 AM #66
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Originally Posted by MicHauđ╣▓ View Post
I mentioned d1 because its the highest ranked players ive talked to and asked about this question
But the PSP ranking has nothing to do with how practiced they're forced to be with their trigger... If they play ramping all the time and try semi, they'll probably suck and say that semi is hard. For me, I play semi for practice and then PSP for tournaments. It's not hard for me to hold a lane at 12.5 bps in semi at all. My friends on another team however started playing PSP only and when they started practicing with semi they were crazy inconsistent and pretty slow, but once they got used to it they were just as deadly with semi.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:28 AM #67
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Originally Posted by Fat_Joe View Post
I worked in this industry up until 2004, and even in 04, it was still going strong, even in the northeast. When the economy started to crash, so did frivolous hobbies. Its not rocket science....I mean for christ sake they even debated whether or not constant air was ruining the game back in the late 80s. I mean get over it.
http://www.greyops.net/2011/09/paint...t-post-by.html

I find his argument much better than yours.

It was collapsing BEFORE the economy was.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:23 PM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexisme View Post
I was agreeing with you..... but ok.


Yea I know, my post was directed at the one above your quote.



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Originally Posted by Tryfan View Post
http://www.greyops.net/2011/09/paint...t-post-by.html

I find his argument much better than yours.

It was collapsing BEFORE the economy was.


thats a pretty incredible stretch to make those two comparisons. While they may seem lke they parallel each other, they dont, at all. One is a need, the other is a HOBBY. People prioritize their hobbies, and paintball isnt one of them. In 99/2000 when i started working and hanging out in shops on the regular, we would sell out of skids of paint in one weekend. We would literally move hundreds of cases in one saturday afternoon, and we didnt have a field. Its not surprise things started tapering down in 2004...thats exactly my point.


Its pretty easy, the cost of the sport is high, people dont have disposable income to blow on it, and the rewards for playing it are significantly less to most people than other hobbies. Also, things come in waves. Certain things trend. Trying to argue that ramping is the reason or one of the primary reasons that the sport isnt as popular as it once was is absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:44 PM #69
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No, it's not "absolutely ridiculous". The evidence is just as strong for that as for anything else, and probably stronger than any claim of "economy" as the fellow - one of the most knowledgeable people in the entire industry on the business side - points out, since the industry was crashing before the economy was. Not just declining, crashing.

Now, you don't want to believe that, and that is your right. But his argument has a weight of its own, and given the evidence I find it much more compelling than yours, mostly because 1. he would know, and 2. his timeline works better than yours.

You are, of course, completely free to hold to your own viewpoint. It doesn't much matter if I, or he, convinces you or not.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:05 PM #70
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Ramping is one of major reasons paintball has declined so much. Not totally rampings fault, it was cheaters that caused leagues to giveup fighting them and take easy way out by letting everyone cheat. Also everyone saying they shoot 12+ per second on semi, no you dont. Your debounce and switch settings do. When you do that on mechanical non penu/rt trigger then you can boast. Shooting fast actually use to be a real major skill before electos/eyes/forcefeed, if you knew how to shoot fast and do it without chopping.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:50 PM #71
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Originally Posted by Look-XD View Post
Ramping is one of major reasons paintball has declined so much. Not totally rampings fault, it was cheaters that caused leagues to giveup fighting them and take easy way out by letting everyone cheat. Also everyone saying they shoot 12+ per second on semi, no you dont. Your debounce and switch settings do. When you do that on mechanical non penu/rt trigger then you can boast. Shooting fast actually use to be a real major skill before electos/eyes/forcefeed, if you knew how to shoot fast and do it without chopping.
12 really isn't that unreasonable on a completely "legal" electro setup for semi. I am meticulous about setting my gun so that it is absolutely 1 shot per trigger pull, and I can often pull 14bps. That is with a board that only registers my bps over a full second. However, anyone claiming to be able to shoot 15, 16, 17 and up is probably relying on mechanical or electronic trickery, knowingly or unknowingly.

As for your other points, I largely agree with them. But I would change it a little to say that high-rof, regardless of the modes used to deliver them have been a major detractor to people who might have otherwise gotten addicted to paintball.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:06 AM #72
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What about the RF chips they are using for tourney play? Connectivity to the markers could enable them to effectively enforce firing modes, e.g. 12.5 bps semi.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:05 AM #73
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So much stupid in this damned thread…lol.

Ramping ruined paintball, limited paint games Re the future, yada yada yada. Go back to 95 or find a mech league. Evolve or leave the sport. We'll be just fine without you and your "semi". Lol. What a joke...
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:41 PM #74
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We'll be just fine without you and your "semi". Lol. What a joke...
Obviously paintball is not "Just fine" or threads wouldn't be popping up daily about how paintball is dying and no one plays any more. Maybe the tourney scene is going strong where you are but that's not going to last forever when new players aren't entering the sport because they can't afford the paint to be competitive or don't want to get shot 57 million times every point while they are learning the game.

Your thinking is very short-sighted. Fundamentally high rof semis with electros makes very little difference from high rof ramping with electros as everyone in this thread has said already. The differing formats of the PSP vs. the NPPL make more of a material difference.

Stepping away from the tournament scene and looking at the rec scene I wholeheartedly believe that the budget high rof electro has done more harm than good to the growth of the sport because prospective new players are at a huge rof disadvantage when they are renting and they're getting shot many more times per game because of it and they aren't coming back. Or they are encouraged to get a high rof gun and then blow all their money on paint to keep it fed because that's what they think they need to do and they burn out really quick.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:27 PM #75
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Originally Posted by SKI008 View Post
Obviously paintball is not "Just fine" or threads wouldn't be popping up daily about how paintball is dying and no one plays any more. Maybe the tourney scene is going strong where you are but that's not going to last forever when new players aren't entering the sport because they can't afford the paint to be competitive or don't want to get shot 57 million times every point while they are learning the game.

Your thinking is very short-sighted. Fundamentally high rof semis with electros makes very little difference from high rof ramping with electros as everyone in this thread has said already. The differing formats of the PSP vs. the NPPL make more of a material difference.

Stepping away from the tournament scene and looking at the rec scene I wholeheartedly believe that the budget high rof electro has done more harm than good to the growth of the sport because prospective new players are at a huge rof disadvantage when they are renting and they're getting shot many more times per game because of it and they aren't coming back. Or they are encouraged to get a high rof gun and then blow all their money on paint to keep it fed because that's what they think they need to do and they burn out really quick.
Agreed 100% I bolded the last part because I think that's a highly overlooked factor in player dropout -- potentially the greater factor here. Personally, I know how to control myself in terms of paint usage; I don't need that much paint to be highly effective on the field. But somebody newer to the sport buys into the high-volume mentality and doesn't figure out (until they're broke) that it's not really about high-volume. I've witnessed countless numbers of people who have cycled in and out of this sport because of money. Guess what, they were almost all the type that shot a case or more per outing. I can't think of anybody who can keep up with that for long.

This is why I am and always will be a proponent of limited paint games (here goes another round of flaming). Nothing drastic like hopper-ball; I'm talking about limiting paint to a reasonable 2-3 pods and a hopper per player. The great thing in that type of a game is that it doesn't mean you can't shoot fast; it just means you have to weigh the costs of shooting fast all the time vs. running out of paint before the end of the game. If anything, it could add a whole new dimension to the game of paintball, even tourney ball. There's also the aspect that it would speed up games, allowing more daring moves to take place -- which could potentially increase spectator appeal.

Ideally, I'd like to see this start happening at the rec level. No more would games automatically go to the guys that have limitless funding to shoot all game long. This would be a completely different outlook on the game compared to the norm for the last 12 years or so.

Let's face it, paintball IS declining. At the tourney level and at the rec level.

In closing, a very wise man once said: "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Maybe we should try something different?
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:47 PM #76
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Very good point. Or maybe eliminate pods all together and have to use 10 round tubes.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:41 PM #77
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Very good point. Or maybe eliminate pods all together and have to use 10 round tubes.
I wasn't talking about anything that extreme. More like, limit it to 500 rds. per player per game. That seems like a reasonable number of rounds to eliminate typically only 3-5 other players, don't you think? Doesn't mean you can't lane, doesn't mean you can't ramp. It just means you'd better be careful and mindful about how you shoot.

As a primarily recreational player, I can't tell you how many times I've seen people (usually newer players) who just give up/get discouraged because somebody at the field has apparently no limit to how much and how fast he can shoot. Again, my idea was geared toward rec play, but I don't think it would hurt the tourney scene either. After all, much of rec play is molded after what's happening at the tourney level.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:41 PM #78
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No, it's not "absolutely ridiculous". The evidence is just as strong for that as for anything else, and probably stronger than any claim of "economy" as the fellow - one of the most knowledgeable people in the entire industry on the business side - points out, since the industry was crashing before the economy was. Not just declining, crashing.

Now, you don't want to believe that, and that is your right. But his argument has a weight of its own, and given the evidence I find it much more compelling than yours, mostly because 1. he would know, and 2. his timeline works better than yours.

You are, of course, completely free to hold to your own viewpoint. It doesn't much matter if I, or he, convinces you or not.

Like I said, they dont mirror each other at all. And of course you're going to agree with the article, its defending your side of the argument. Like I said, i was in the sport in the early 2000s and there was growth. It was until 05,06 things really went down. I can imagine there are a multitude of other factors contributing to the decline of the sport before ramping. So you can keep grasping at straws, and the rest of us will live in reality.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Look-XD View Post
Ramping is one of major reasons paintball has declined so much. Not totally rampings fault, it was cheaters that caused leagues to giveup fighting them and take easy way out by letting everyone cheat. Also everyone saying they shoot 12+ per second on semi, no you dont. Your debounce and switch settings do. When you do that on mechanical non penu/rt trigger then you can boast. Shooting fast actually use to be a real major skill before electos/eyes/forcefeed, if you knew how to shoot fast and do it without chopping.


Shooting 12+ without any ridiculous trigger settings isnt that difficult.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SKI008 View Post
Obviously paintball is not "Just fine" or threads wouldn't be popping up daily about how paintball is dying and no one plays any more. Maybe the tourney scene is going strong where you are but that's not going to last forever when new players aren't entering the sport because they can't afford the paint to be competitive or don't want to get shot 57 million times every point while they are learning the game.

Your thinking is very short-sighted. Fundamentally high rof semis with electros makes very little difference from high rof ramping with electros as everyone in this thread has said already. The differing formats of the PSP vs. the NPPL make more of a material difference.

Stepping away from the tournament scene and looking at the rec scene I wholeheartedly believe that the budget high rof electro has done more harm than good to the growth of the sport because prospective new players are at a huge rof disadvantage when they are renting and they're getting shot many more times per game because of it and they aren't coming back. Or they are encouraged to get a high rof gun and then blow all their money on paint to keep it fed because that's what they think they need to do and they burn out really quick.


If you want to say ramping is hurting paintball vis the rec game you could make a much more solid argument. Rec is the lifeblood of the sport, like it or not. If ramping is turning players away then yea, we have an issue, but i doubt its that big of a deal. The issue with rec is pai t was so damn expensive for crap. "Field paint" that should cost 40-50 a case runs for 90+ at some places. There is a lot that can be done to help the sport, but the cost is high, always has been. Thats the way it is.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:50 PM #79
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I agree. Paint prices/ quality are ruining the sport. A case of premium used to run $55, now it costs me $75 a case.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:31 AM #80
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I agree. Paint prices/ quality are ruining the sport. A case of premium used to run $55, now it costs me $75 a case.

Agreed, it is a factor in the decline. The last time I played, I had to pay $50 for a case of the absolute worst crap I've ever shot. $50 used to get you very, very nice rec paint (I'd use it in a tourney).

And the crappy quality only contributes to a higher volume needed to compete -- because you can't hit anything with it. I'm assuming most of the people still in this discussion have shot high-end paint; it's unbelievable the difference it makes. I've often thought that I may actually save money by paying for $70/case paint, because it takes fewer shots to get someone out. It's hard to fork over $70 though when there's a case right next to it for $50, and I always seem to cross my fingers and hope for the best...

I just wish that paint companies didn't have their hands so far into this sport. There's got to be a way to give more control to the players for the sake of the game.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:09 PM #81
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since the topic of this thread is that ramping takes no skill id have to say yes ramping takes no skill, you arent doing the work, a computer. is/thread
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:35 PM #82
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since the topic of this thread is that ramping takes no skill id have to say yes ramping takes no skill, you arent doing the work, a computer. is/thread
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:24 PM #83
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since the topic of this thread is that ramping takes no skill id have to say yes ramping takes no skill, you arent doing the work, a computer. is/thread
i agree
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:27 PM #84
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i was planning to open a thread about ramping this was the closest to it i could find

lets go back to zero and ask

why was ramping introduce to this sport? why do you ramp?
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