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Old 02-02-2013, 11:38 AM #1
2xFast
 
 
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DAM + Halo = Breach Breaks?

Anyone else having issues using a force fed hopper with their DAM? Every time I stick a force fed (Halo and Prophecy so far) on my DAM I get breach breaks. As in no more than 10-20 shots before breaking a ball in the breach. And yes, I'm completely stripping and cleaning when I get a breach break, it's not due to a dirty marker.

After a breach break the feed neck is ~clean, but all of the eye pipe is a mess. I cant tell if it's truly chopping or if the squeegee o-ring is just dragging paint everywhere in the eye-pipe.

As soon as I swap over to an agitated gravity fed the problem is greatly reduced, maybe even eliminated...at least a hopper or two between breaks.

Hugely disappointing for such an expensive gun.

Last edited by 2xFast : 02-02-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:41 AM #2
abenguyen
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What type of paint are you shooting? Sounds like a paint problem. Or maybe time to get a rotor ;P.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:57 PM #3
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I think it's partially a paint problem. It was Nelson special forces, but pretty cold out. Funny thing is my mag handled the same paint through the same loader just fine.

I did notice that the bolt sits way back on the DAM, so it's possible for the chambered ball to get pushed back and partially load the next ball. The bolt has to push the partially loaded ball out of the way when it fires, and if there's a lot of pressure on the stack (aka an older Halo), things break.

At least that was my theory. I replaced the detents with one in my parts kit that was so bowed in I thought it was broken...turns out maybe that's what they should look like? In any case the DAM can now handle my Halo. I think I may actually have to save up for a rotor (I know I dropped some money on the gun, but seriously, $200 for a freak'n loader?!)

For now I'll just stock up on spare detents.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:54 PM #4
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Yup........you're getting stack clips. The open face bolt allows roll back as you said. That causes the next ball in the stack to drop into the breech a bit. It gets "clipped" by the bolt and cracks, then drops into the breech. You fire and it explodes.

This is common with force fed hoppers(especially with cold brittle paint) because, they're pushing down on the balls. That downward force prevents that second ball from bouncing away from the bolt as the bolt hits it. This means, that second ball in the stack takes an even harder hit from the bolt and so you clip more balls. This is why I HATE open face bolts and why a lot of newer guns just plain don't have them anymore. They're a dumb idea period. Automags had this problem solved 15 years ago lol.

What you need to do....if you use a force fed hopper is to use one with a low tension setting. Assuming you can adjust the tension on it. If not sometimes reducing the top feed rate will help. If you get a rotor go on youtube and watch the rotor tension adjustment video. Set it up like that right out of the box.

I don't know what type of settings the DAM has but you want as little force behind the bolt as possible. Which means.........you need to run a HIGH dwell and LOW LPR/HPR pressure.

It wouldn't hurt to keep your paint warm is possible as well. It will be more flexible and less likely to crack. If you can't keep it warm, let it sit out open in a box to soften up a tad and that will help too.
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Last edited by MstrKey : 02-04-2013 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:07 PM #5
Bunkerd86
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Thanks MstrKey. Im having the same problem, so I hope this helps
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:53 PM #6
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Sounds to me like the issue needs to be addressed with a better bolt design first and foremost. No one should have to take all these procedures on such an expensive setup to get it to work properly. A beveled edge on a delrin bolt would most likely eliminate the issue, or something like deadly winds foam ball set on an inner stalk could also fix the issue from roll back. I'd get creative if I where you fellas. Can any of you post a couple pics of the bolt in and outside the marker. I would like to have a look at the design
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:04 PM #7
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stack clips

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCowboy View Post
Sounds to me like the issue needs to be addressed with a better bolt design first and foremost. No one should have to take all these procedures on such an expensive setup to get it to work properly. A beveled edge on a delrin bolt would most likely eliminate the issue, or something like deadly winds foam ball set on an inner stalk could also fix the issue from roll back. I'd get creative if I where you fellas. Can any of you post a couple pics of the bolt in and outside the marker. I would like to have a look at the design
The problem is Dye hasn't really updated their technology much in the last 5-6 years. The decrease in the size of paintballs, as well as the slow motion camera studies done by Jack Wood of PE have show us all what's really going on in there(hence the cure bolts). I personally knew this ever since the halo first came out. Many companies are still behind in this respect. Why? Because unless you play with really brittle, or really cold paint it's not an issue, so they ignore it.

What I was going to do to my bolt back in the day was pop off the bolt tip oring....drill a few holes through the bolt tip oring channel and secure some type of hard foam gizmo into the center of the bolt. Nothing large....just enough to keep balls from rolling back. I never did get around to it though.

I should mention the rubber faced B-wing bolt may have this issue licked. I can't say for sure.

Maybe someone should write a letter to Exalt......they just came out with a geo bolt to solve this issue on older geos.....maybe they'd make one for Dm's if there is enough response.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:29 AM #8
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Interesting info. I like the idea of your mod concoction for the bolt to, cause its really the same idea behind the stalk I mentioned, like the deadly wind hollow design. It was hands down the ultimate fix for the ION issues.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:47 PM #9
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I put a case of paint and 50 TB rounds thru mine this afternoon utilizing marballizer and premium paint both by empire with no breaks or malfunctions I am using the dye rotor which performed flawlessly.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:40 PM #10
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Good stuff. Again it should only be a problem with the most brittle paints. Or paint that's just really cold. In most cases you should be fine.
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