[yuik (Banned)]

Originally Posted by wolfheart93

Ya right. Last time I tried to I'd barely get $75 on it. Might as well keep it.

The mobo was $79.99. Also mr tramplefoot, the power supply is discontinued apparently...

Pawn it

[iPaintYou]

Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek

I think that is a myth/misunderstanding.

http://www.overclock.net/t/761202/si...rail-explained
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990

I apologize for my poor choice of words. By saying that the PSU with a single +12V rail was "much better," I was saying that it would be a better idea to buy it. I am fully aware that PSUs with more than one +12V rail are more than capable of powering a high end computer. The one wolf picked out even claims to be SLI/CrossFire ready. Here's the problem though: the PSU he picked out only has 2 6-Pin PCIe connectors. Say he wants a multiple card setup in the future. Now he's going to need two additional PCIe connectors. Where do these come from? Well he's going to have to use adapters. This is where potential problems exist. By using adapters to power his new multiple card setup, he runs the risk of connecting everything in such a way that the draw of his graphics setup stresses one of the rails too much, causing the PSU to shut down. This is something that is mentioned in the johnnyGuru article you linked. Now, every PSU is different and if you know how it is wired and can make educated choices on how to connect everything, there is no problem. However, it's not always that easy. Especially for someone who is building a computer with a "LEGO" mentality. What I mean by that is someone who thinks if it fits, it works.

Of course this is a hypothetical situation that may never even come into play, but why run the risk? I see no advantages to running a multiple rail PSU (And we are talking about PSUs under 1000W. 1000W+ PSUs are a different story.) There are some claims about overclockability, clean voltage, etc. that the johnnyGuru article even shoots down. I read that entire article and I still stand behind my opinion. I think it is much better to invest in a single rail design if you are buying a PSU under 1000W.

Originally Posted by toolbandfan

If a PSU is being promoted for single rail design it's just fluff, doesn't really have any advantage.

But it doesn't have any disadvantages that I can think of. Multiple rail designs do (see above). I think single rail designs are better and safer to buy as long as you are not overloading it to begin with (making it power too much) and it has the connectors you need without having to use a plethora of adapters.

[toolbandfan]

Uh, I read the jonnyguru one, seems to indicate if the PSU quality is good, single rail vs multiple rails doesn't matter for almost anyone.

What I got out of the thread was multi-rail was the safer choice. Read the jonnyguru one.


EDIT: also pretty sure that article mentioned that multi-rail WAS the better choice for SLI/crossfire if it was a quality PSU.

[DayoftheGreek]

Yeah, that is what I got out of it too.

[akward silence]

Originally Posted by mrtramplefoot

The corsair ones are nice, I probably would have got one had I not found that antec neo eco 620 for $20(gotta love newegg coupons), but its just unnecessary for wolf to spend that much

Very true. I saw their prices went up, they are going for like $115!

[toolbandfan]

I have three new spare PSU's sitting in my garage. An Antec 400w "high current" I got for about $11 after rebate, an Earthwatts 430w, and a Corsair CX430.

I guess I'm set for a while.

[akward silence]

Nice

I'm excited for that ram to come in, it's my first woot purchase.

[iPaintYou]

Originally Posted by toolbandfan

Uh, I read the jonnyguru one, seems to indicate if the PSU quality is good, single rail vs multiple rails doesn't matter for almost anyone.

(sigh) I'm just saying there is no reason to buy a multiple +12V rail PSU when there could be a risk of overloading one of the rails. I even said in my post that I agreed that multiple +12V rail PSUs could power high end computers.

Originally Posted by toolbandfan

What I got out of the thread was multi-rail was the safer choice. Read the jonnyguru one.

It never said that multi-rail was a "safer" choice (in other words, it never says that one is better than the other). It said that it was done because of safety. No power supply is built unsafely. As long as you buy a power supply from a well-know manufacturer, it will be just as safe as the next as long as you don't overload it. You can have two power supplies, one with a single rail and the other with two rails, that have the same output capacity across their +12V rails. They are both just as safe. The one with a single rail is just built with parts that can handle the kind of load/heat that it will be given.

Originally Posted by toolbandfan

EDIT: also pretty sure that article mentioned that multi-rail WAS the better choice for SLI/crossfire if it was a quality PSU.

Again, the article never says one is better than the other. It just mentions that Nvidia will on certify PSUs to be fit for SLI if the existing PCIe connectors are on their own +12V rail to avoid conflict with other parts. If the PSU doesn't have enough PCIe connectors, you still run the risk of stressing another rail with adapters.

The johnnyGuru post does, however say that 2 x12V rails is old school, 3 x 12V rail is fine for one graphics card but bad for any setup needing 4 x PCIe connectors (most SLI/CrossFire setups with highend cards), 4 x 12V following the EPS12V standard is bad for SLI because it will always be sharing with another rail, and finally 4 x 12V using newer standards is fine for multiple cards but is usually seen in 700W+ PSUs which is higher than what we are recommending for wolf. Every other configuration mentioned is also found in higher wattage PSUs.

I'm not seeing how it could be the better choice. Do I want to buy something where I could **** up or something where I can't **** up? Unless their is a significant price difference, I don't see a reason to go multi-rail over single rail.

You're claims in this post, no offense, were just ignorant. At least back up your statements with evidence instead of just saying "I think it's in there somewhere." By all means prove what I've said wrong. Technology is a field where no one knows everything. I'd be more than happy to learn something today but I'm just not seeing it.

Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek

Yeah, that is what I got out of it too.

Well then please, make a more convincing argument than toolbandfan did.

[toolbandfan]

Hey man, I've internetted way longer than you have, step back.

[wolfheart93]

Originally Posted by mrtramplefoot

It probably sold out because it was such a damn good deal...
I guess get this one then
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153167

Definitely don't get the one you picked out though, in no way is it worth that price

Okay so this is still a good one right? I'm a bit confused by the one vs two rail arguement.

[mrtramplefoot]

That's irrelevant here, just get that

[toolbandfan]

EDIT: I see you're on a tight budget, that looks fine I guess.

[DayoftheGreek]

Originally Posted by iPaintYou

(sigh) I'm just saying there is no reason to buy a multiple +12V rail PSU when there could be a risk of overloading one of the rails. I even said in my post that I agreed that multiple +12V rail PSUs could power high end computers.

It never said that multi-rail was a "safer" choice (in other words, it never says that one is better than the other). It said that it was done because of safety.

Do anyone else think that statement is a bit ridiculous? You're arguing semantics so hard that you aren't actually reading the meaning of the words you are arguing about. If you do something FOR SAFETY, the end results is SAFER.

Originally Posted by OCN

So multi-rail is inherently safer, correct? Yes

Originally Posted by OCN

Well, with low-wattage units it doesn't matter. So with 550W and under power supplies, it's a moot point. However, with high wattage units, >45A on the +12V (650W and higher) picking a multi-rail unit will provide you with an extra layer of protection. It isn't essential, and it has no impact on the power supply's performance. However, it does provide an extra layer of safety in case you get a short circuit. And I would consider it a must for >1000W power supplies; [H] recently tested the single rail Corsair AX1200, but they had an accidental short circuit, and since the PSU's OCP is set for over 100A, the short overloaded and destroyed most of their testing equipment. So there is a danger with single rail units over 1000W.

Originally Posted by OCN

So multi-rail is mildly better, especially with high wattage units,

Originally Posted by JG

So why do they do they split up +12V rails?? Safety.

Originally Posted by JG

The bottom line is, for 99% of the folks out there single vs. multiple +12V rails is a NON ISSUE

So JG doesn't even include it in the list of things you should worry about when buying a PSU and says its almost never an issue. It also says this non-issue improves safety. OCN says its a little better because of safety and high-power units not burning things. In a low power unit it doesn't matter because you wont and shouldn't be going SLI anyway, but if you do, it will cause problems no matter which rail configuration you have. On a high power (which you should have for SLI) you will have plenty of connecters, but if you do something stupid a multi-rail will shut down instead of destroying components like the single rail could, as cited in the OCN post.

I think the most important words from each review are as follows:

Originally Posted by JG

NON ISSUE

Originally Posted by OCN

it doesn't matter

[iPaintYou]

@DayoftheGreek, that's more of the response I was looking for. I still think that single vs. multiple rail is something that should be considered when doing a build. However, it does seem that multiple 12V rails do have an edge in the safety department. I still wouldn't be worried about it in anything under 1000W though (the AX1200 is a bad example. I already stated I think PSUs like that should have more than one 12V power source split into more than one rail). My HX850 claims to have over-voltage, under-voltage, over-current, and short circuit protection. To what extent is does these, I don't know. If a power supply seriously fails, I think your system is ****ed anyways.

[Oedipus]

In my experience, I have never seen a PSU fail and take out a motherboard or any components down the chain. I don't think it's as mythical or overblown an issue as ESD, but it's really nothing I would concern myself with.

That's still no excuse for buying a PSU made in the Sudan, though.

[akward silence]

Sudan? I didn't even know they had manufacturing capabilities.


Amazon and newegg are doing a presidents day sale, maybe something will pop up.

[Oedipus]

Sudan makes dirt and famine, dontchaknow

[akward silence]

Oh right.

[Dasminkar]

I think it's time to upgrade my old budget build, it's getting pretty slow. I'd like to stick with AMD for the sake of saving money. I've been out of the market for a computer for quite a few years and I'm not familiar with the FM1 socket that AMD has now. I'd be playing online games, email, surfing, and watching netflix mostly. No PC gaming. Should I stick with the AM3+ or go with the new FM1 stuff? Price is only $10 difference.

this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103727

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130652

or this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103942

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157277

[big_scott]

Phenom

[akward silence]

I got that 16gb ram kit I ordered from woot today. Computer is happy with it and reading at 1600. Good stuff