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Old 02-13-2013, 07:10 AM #1
Opteron-O3
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2012 Spyder Fenix

Hey guys. It's tinkering time! I have recently purchased a Spyder Fenix and I plan on gutting it and maxing out it's performance like I have to all my other Spyders without having to spend too much money. I have a few parts left over from previous Spyders and I plan on using them to see what results I'll get.

Now. I'm going with the assumption that the lower tube internals are the same (valve spring, valve pin, valve body, striker, buffer, and main spring) correct me if I'm wrong. Just by looking at pictures and videos they look the same, but I have noticed the body is smaller in length compared to the older Spyders. I'd like to get this confirmed if someone could be so kind to take a close up picture of the internals. The reason I ask also because I found a few things online that I may purchase before someone else does

I'm going to try and do a detailed video disassembling and reassembling of the Fenix and if my project is a success a shooting video

Goal:
According to ANS Gear the Fenix shoots at 500psi as it's operating pressure and has some noticable kick. (I know it's a blowback, but they can shoot just as smooth with the right parts and tune). The Fenix has the potential to shoot approximately 1600 shots out of a 20oz Co2. I will try to achieve a lower pressure, minimize kick, and achieve the same if not more shots per tank. I would like to be able to get a case of out my 68/3000, but we all know that's ludacris hahaha. Anything can happen right?

Well I finally had a chance to do some testing and with a chrono!


Temperature: 60* (Awesome weather for us lol)
Wind: Light Breeze
Humidity: 24%

Marker Specs:
  • 2012 Spyder Fenix
  • Stock Internals
  • I used Bob Long Regulator due to Stock reg not having a gauge to read.
  • CP 2 piece barrel with .685 insert to match paint
  • Crossfire 68/3000 CF tank.
  • Handheld Sport Chrono
  • Spectrum Field Paint

Upgrades:
  • TechT Hush Bolt
  • Dark Horizons SS Striker
  • 9 Piece Spring Kit (Valve Only)

Testing was done as follows. I shot 5 rounds each time I changed something to the marker. For example. In stock form I shot 5 times. I changed bolt I shot another 5 times and recorded each. The marker will be shot with the current setup as stated above and I will upgrade and chrono as I go.

First Trial:
Stock setup set @ 500 psi
Readings: 275, 272, 276, 278, 273 - avg 274 fps

Second Trial:
Added Hush Bolt @ 500 psi
Readings: 302, 297, 299, 298, 300 - avg 299 fps

Third Trail:
Adjusted regulator to meet adequate FPS @ 400 psi
Readings: 280, 278, 275, 282, 278 - avg 278 fps

Forth Trial:
Added Dark Horizons SS Striker @ 400 psi
Readings: 265, 259, 263, 260, 264 - avg 262 fps
Note: I didn't like the results of the striker. Lower velocity and internal scratching. So I stopped here and switched back to the original striker.

Fifth Trial:
Added modified Light Valve Spring (More air allowed, stock is too stiff) @ 400psi
Readings: 299, 295, 297, 301, 293 - avg 297 fps

Final Trial:
Adjusted Regulator @ 350 psi
Readings: 275, 281, 278, 273, 277 - avg 276 fps



After running these tests I'm happy with the results. I didn't get around to trying out the main spring just because the spring used in the Fenix are of different length compared to the 9 piece that I have. I was able to get the same results as I did when I went to play on Sunday. Minimal Kick (this is a blowback afterall...), very light marker, very quiet compared to other Spyders and I've built many, very fast, and lastly VERY EFFICIENT. I had my tank set at 2500 psi(my tank seems to not be able to hold a full 3000. I was able to get 4 Pods(140ct) and a hopper (total roughly 760 shots) and still had roughly 1000-1200psi left. If my calculations are correct. I can get about 1400 out of my 68/3000 tank. The EKO Valve with some upgrades really helps
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:05 AM #2
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Oh man. A case out of 68/3k? That would be crazy. Good luck. I think you would be looking at getting custom parts to get near that, Titaniun strikers and modifed valves and such. Dark horizon used to make titanium strikers, but it looks like they're out of business now.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:22 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C8H10N4O2 View Post
Oh man. A case out of 68/3k? That would be crazy. Good luck. I think you would be looking at getting custom parts to get near that, Titaniun strikers and modifed valves and such. Dark horizon used to make titanium strikers, but it looks like they're out of business now.
Yeah it's definitely crazy numbers. I don't see it all that possible to reach that high but I will try to squeeze every ounce that I can. I have a few valves I will be messing with. Primarily with the Maddman Rocket Valve

Dark Horizon may be out of business but who says I don't have one in my gearbag
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:48 AM #4
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If you ever get tired of having that striker taking up so much space in your gearbag, I'd be willing to take it off your hands for you.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:26 AM #5
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Hahaha well if I ever get tired of it I'll be sure to let you know about it
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:07 PM #6
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You seem to know what you're doing, but I always found the best way to check for efficiency is using 12 grams. It's a lot faster to tell what works and what doesn't. I have a 12 gram adapter I'm not really using if you want to borrow it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:52 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C8H10N4O2 View Post
You seem to know what you're doing, but I always found the best way to check for efficiency is using 12 grams. It's a lot faster to tell what works and what doesn't. I have a 12 gram adapter I'm not really using if you want to borrow it.
Sweet! Although I plan on tuning for HPA I'll definitely keep you in mind dude. The tuning varies when using different air sources such as Co2 and HPA (I'm sure you know all this, one gas is heavier than the other... blah blah blah)
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:10 PM #8
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The valve springs are different from what you expect. The only way I see getting your spring kits springs to fit is getting a shim made for it. The valve assembly is a LP valve of sorts. The Pin as we know where you make the most gains from is already "shaved" style. I had posted pictures before, and still have one in my bin. The difference between the 08/09 electra and the fenix is the valve body. They basically drilled tiny vent holes to the striker like an AKA valve. It would be worth throwing a nice regulator and ASA if you have one, but not needed as far as performance, you should be able to hit 20bps pretty easy.

As far as that Operating pressure, you will probably sacrifice its efficiency for a smoother quieter marker. The only thing I'd like to see if you do is perform a few test before you do anything. Out of box efficiency no adjustment, then find adjust reg efficiency. If you can get a dial on it so we can actually see the factory pressures while you do this. If you do get that stupid "hush" bolt, you will have numbers to compare it too and your one of the few people that I expect to report back on what improvements or losses you get from that bolt.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:18 PM #9
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I have a lot of miscellaneous parts in my box of goodies that I can construct some sort of "shim extender". Interesting that you say the valve body and pin are of a LP setup. With that said I wonder if I could make the maddman rocket valve work since it'll be higher flowing and allow for an easier recock of the striker. I plan on using a dark horizons striker so that should help some. Even if the rocket valve didn't work the dh striker should have some overall improvements. Its funny that you mention the hush bolt because I did purchase it and they should arrive at the same time. Ill definitely post up some before and after videos and try my best to figure out efficiency numbers by using the same tank. My buddy has a chrono so ill try to borrow it from him. If not ill have to do the good ol eye ball method hahaha
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:47 AM #10
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I'm curious about that hush bolt too. The video on it just seems too good to be true.


And if you can't get ahold of your friend for his chrono, I've got one of those too. It's a radarchron handheld...not the most accurate in the world, but it's good enough for testing.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:54 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C8H10N4O2 View Post
I'm curious about that hush bolt too. The video on it just seems too good to be true.
Yeah that's what I thought too. It's amazing how much of a difference that bolt made on the marker. Wasn't he able go down around 100psi just on the bolt alone???

Quote:
Originally Posted by C8H10N4O2 View Post
And if you can't get ahold of your friend for his chrono, I've got one of those too. It's a radarchron handheld...not the most accurate in the world, but it's good enough for testing.
I got a hold of him and appearently he doesn't play paintball anymore So yeah if you don't mind me borrowing the chrono that would be awesome. I need to purchase one of my own too since I do a lot of at home testing.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:18 AM #12
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Yep, it was around 100 psi I believe. And I know the electra bolt doesn't have any orings, is the fenix the same way?

And I need to get a new battery for my chrono, but after that you can borrow it. It uses some weird size (3V lithium 1/3N). I might have to order it from ebay.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:19 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C8H10N4O2 View Post
Yep, it was around 100 psi I believe. And I know the electra bolt doesn't have any orings, is the fenix the same way?

And I need to get a new battery for my chrono, but after that you can borrow it. It uses some weird size (3V lithium 1/3N). I might have to order it from ebay.
The 2012 Fenix has double o-Rings, I can take a photo when I get home if you want, I'm curious with the hush bolt but I'm not sure it's much of an improvement on the 2012 bolt
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:19 PM #14
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You could use any valve, but the VS valve, They changed the pin that holds the valve in place. Its just a threded plug now. If you try the brass pin from the classics it threads but will be too tall. So if your up for making making it fit go for it. Personally I would just jb weld something on the fenix plug that fits into the hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opteron-O3 View Post
Yeah that's what I thought too. It's amazing how much of a difference that bolt made on the marker. Wasn't he able go down around 100psi just on the bolt alone???
I've watched the video and like that they probably will be able to keep a spyder bolt on the market. I don't like the claim of 100psi drop as it was never established what the lowest pressure was to begin with. I do believe you could get it to drop at or under 400psi without the bolt(In case anyone thinks i'm bull****ing, I owned the 08 electra and pilot, I slapped my torpedo reg on the pilot which seemed to have heavy springs and hit around 400psi. I used the stock reg on the electra but it always felt smoother which was probably from lower pressure from lighter springs). If causation=correlation than this bolt is only a little better than the AKA bolt on spyder compact and only marginally better than a bolt with orings like ACP.
http://web.archive.org/web/200511252...m/project.html

So my real question would be if you had a multi oring bolt, what increases would you see and then what pressure would run at. If got ahold of a 3o-ring delflow bolt from Alamo city pb (no longer in buisness) would it also shot at 325psi@280fps?


Quote:
Originally Posted by daewootech View Post
The 2012 Fenix has double o-Rings, I can take a photo when I get home if you want, I'm curious with the hush bolt but I'm not sure it's much of an improvement on the 2012 bolt
You... should find out what PSI your fenix shoots at. http://www.paintballgateway.com/trinasaadwip2.html. drop the pressure low, then raise it slowly untill you can shoot 280fps. Record the pressure and report back =D.


Also anyone and everyone else should do this as well. Nobody ever does, but one of these day.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:33 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret15 View Post
You could use any valve, but the VS valve, They changed the pin that holds the valve in place. Its just a threded plug now. If you try the brass pin from the classics it threads but will be too tall. So if your up for making making it fit go for it. Personally I would just jb weld something on the fenix plug that fits into the hole.
Well if it's a plug it "should" still cover up the VS valve since that's what the VS series markers used. The reason I chose the Rocket valve was for it's flow and how efficient the design is. Comparing how the EKO and Rocket valve looks. I see no problem achieving lower numbers whiling keeping efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret15 View Post
I've watched the video and like that they probably will be able to keep a spyder bolt on the market. I don't like the claim of 100psi drop as it was never established what the lowest pressure was to begin with. I do believe you could get it to drop at or under 400psi without the bolt(In case anyone thinks i'm bull****ing, I owned the 08 electra and pilot, I slapped my torpedo reg on the pilot which seemed to have heavy springs and hit around 400psi. I used the stock reg on the electra but it always felt smoother which was probably from lower pressure from lighter springs). If causation=correlation than this bolt is only a little better than the AKA bolt on spyder compact and only marginally better than a bolt with orings like ACP.
http://web.archive.org/web/200511252...m/project.html

So my real question would be if you had a multi oring bolt, what increases would you see and then what pressure would run at. If got ahold of a 3o-ring delflow bolt from Alamo city pb (no longer in buisness) would it also shot at 325psi@280fps?




You... should find out what PSI your fenix shoots at. http://www.paintballgateway.com/trinasaadwip2.html. drop the pressure low, then raise it slowly untill you can shoot 280fps. Record the pressure and report back =D.


Also anyone and everyone else should do this as well. Nobody ever does, but one of these day.
Oh man how I miss that company. Nonetheless, when I did use a 3 o-ring bolt. I ran into the problem of possible added friction. Because that 3rd o-ring will run on both detents. How much is actually affected? I have no idae. But I ended up getting rid of mine.

That's how I tune my markers. I tune from the bottom up with a higher flowing regulator and my velocity adjuster spring all the way out.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:55 PM #16
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I did get the Tech-T hush bolt today. Ill save my review and comments for the video but this bolt is built with quality in mind!
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:38 AM #17
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Nice. You should keep some sort of log of what fps you're getting with each different part you use.

Of course, you would need a much more accurate chrono than a handheld one then too.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:55 AM #18
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Not necessarily. The handheld chrono isn't that bad. Well at least the one we use at our field. The bolt, from what it looks like, will make a great difference. The way its constructedis of quality and well thought out .
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:07 PM #19
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I have recieved the Fenix!! I can't wait to open her up
Just an fyi the difference is night and day comparing the Fenix to my older Pilot. Weight is the biggest factor.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:41 AM #20
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Update! Figured since I love to tinker with guns I bought a chrono. Just waiting for it yo get here and ill post videos. I went balling this weekend with undisclosed upgrades and I managed to get 1300 out of my 68/3000 tank. Not bad in my opinion.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:32 AM #21
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That's not a bad start at all! What psi/fps were you running?
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