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Old 02-11-2013, 12:50 PM #1
JakeTrilla
 
 
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Spyder Shutter and HPA

I've gotten conflicting info, so I thought I'd post and ask the question. Sorry if this is a repeat!

I have an original Spyder Shutter Java edition that I took to the field this past weekend, expecting to use my trusty co2 setup. The gun is all stock, and I have used co2 since I first bought the gun new. I have cleaned and lubed the gun after every use and all the seals look functional.

At the field I ran out of Co2 and expected that the "new" (to me) HPA would just "work". Sadly I was mistaken. When hooked up to HPA I got the machine gun effect similar to when the fill on CO2 gets low. The tank was fully screwed in and I did not hear any escaping air that would indicate a bad seal

Asked around at the field; No one at the field even recognized the Shutter, (I kept getting "What kind of gun is that?" ) finally someone suggested springs, another that the valve may only work on co2 and cant "handle" HPA

I poked around for suggestions on the net, but no conclusive answers as to a solution, nor any ready supply of parts that I was confident enough to spend the cash on without knowing if they'd work.

I don't want to give up on my old favorite, so if any of you who have experienced the same issue with a similar gun, and could share mods/ideas for running HPA that would be awesome! thanks!
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:52 PM #2
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Same thing happened to me, multiple stacked tube blowbacks. Just relube your gun (o-rings) and clean the internals.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:05 PM #3
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Try lubricating your internals first (especially the striker and bolt). Then if there's still an issue, we can solve it from there.

The machine gunning isn't always just from being out of air/co2. It can also be caused by too low of pressure that doesn't allow the striker to be recocked all the way or the springs are too high in tension that they make it difficult for the striker to be caught on the sear.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:07 PM #4
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What are the pressure differences between co2 and HPA anyhow?
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:00 PM #5
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It depends on the output of the tank regulator. Many tank regulators output a constant 800psi and does not fluctuate based upon the temperature. HPA tank regulators can be set to output various pressures from as low as ~250-300psi (Ninja SLP) and as high as ~900-1100psi (Ninja SHP).

CO2 fluctuates based upon the temperature. It's typically around 800psi at room temperature, but can increase to over 850psi (when your tank is warm/hot) and can drop lower (i don't know how low, but this is when your tank is really cold/cold day) because the temperature has a direct relationship with how fast the liquid CO2 vaporizes.

Spyders (especially the older models without regulators) are designed to run at the 800-850psi range to allow for the use of both CO2 and HPA.

It is most likely that the internals are under-lubricated or dirty and need to be cleaned which requires a higher pressure (closer to 850psi) for the marker to operate at the desired FPS range. So when you switched over to HPA, the likely tank output was a consistent 800psi which was not enough pressure to fully cycle your spyder in it's current state.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:23 PM #6
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If your gun worked before when you got it, then it should work now. Get some paintball oil and keep her clean lubed up. I honestly would just do it every game as cheap as it to rinse it off dry and oil. If thats too much work for you putting a dab of oil in the ASA (where you screw the tank screws in) and dry fire a few time will give all those orings you don't see a longer life. That is what spyder recommends every game. Any trouble after that, post pictures of what your unsure of including any equipment.


@blindchicken: Slap reg on stock spyder and see what kind pressure you will get. Most of mine would cycle fine into the 300's psi fine and most shot velocity above 500psi. I can't recall the exact #'s anymore but there is no reason a HPA tank won't work, most of the time you can run lower due to the constancy too.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:30 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret15 View Post

@blindchicken: Slap reg on stock spyder and see what kind pressure you will get. Most of mine would cycle fine into the 300's psi fine and most shot velocity above 500psi. I can't recall the exact #'s anymore but there is no reason a HPA tank won't work, most of the time you can run lower due to the constancy too.
My LP'd 2k5 spump runs easy on ~300, but that doesn't need to have a high pressure to recock the bolt.

I'm sure some of the models would run perfectly on a much lower hpa with the right spring setup.

When I get some time, i'll have to take my LP'd and non LP'd and see how low the stock one runs at on HPA.

I am thinking that the initial issue with the HPA may be due to the unclean/under-lubricated internals which would increase the friction on the parts which in turn would make it slightly more difficult for the marker to cycle thus creating the need for the higher psi that CO2 offered. In turn, if the HPA strictly put out 800psi max, the higher friction may have made the HPA not work for the marker in that particular condition.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:22 PM #8
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Just a thought - what kind of hpa tank was it? Maybe the regulator on the tank followed nearly immediately by the regulator on the shutter caused some problems with airflow. Did it happen immediately? Or was it after you took a few shots rapidly?

The regs on the shutters weren't the best to begin with.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:32 PM #9
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just send it too me and ill fix it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:33 AM #10
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If I were to take a shot in the dark I'd put my money on a mid-low pressure reg on the HPA tank. From my time working in the shop at my local field I found that most STBB markers don't function well if at all when their input pressure is 600 PSI or lower. It would be worthwhile to replace the striker o-ring with the appropriate size as well.

There are no modifications required to switch from CO2 to compressed air, the only requirement is to be sure the regulator on the HPA tank has an output in the 800-850 PSI range.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:45 AM #11
JakeTrilla
 
 
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Took the gun apart tonight. It was cleaner than the day I bought it new. After oiling the Spyder up, I still had no success in getting the HPA to work.

Then I did some experimenting with an old Spyder Xtra and the HPA tank. The Xtra could fire successfully with the HPA.

So I began swapping parts!

Eventually I found that the striker O rings were different, and that difference was enough to make the Xtra work with HPA while the Spyder would not. I verified the fix by swapping the Xtra striker with the Spyder's. The Spyder then used HPA flawlessly while the Xtra showed the same symptoms.

I plan to replace the Spyder O rings and report back, but I believe with ya'lls help, we have come to a highly probable solution.

Thanks so much everyone for your input!
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:29 AM #12
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Sounds like you have a regular tank o-ring on there which can prove problematic. Get a striker o-ring from kingman or our favorite retailer and try again.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:35 PM #13
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I had the same issue with my Shutter this weekend! All I did was replace the o rings and it worked flawlessly! I bought this thing new over 10 years ago!
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:15 AM #14
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Just had the same issue.. I have an old Spyder paintball gun, just tried to use it other the last weekend at a local field.. Before I went out to play I was sure to clean and oil the gun, but didn't have any c02 to test fire before going out to play.. Got to the field and the guy behind the counter didn't want to fill my c02 tank because he couldn't tell how old it was so instead of arguing with him I just took the rental air they had.. They use HPA tanks with their tipman 98 rentals..

As soon as I installed the tank. The gun wouldn't fire.. Just stutter rapid fire then nothing.. Long story short. Ending up using a rental gun..

Went to a local paintball store today and had them refill my old c02 tanks (no issues btw.) installed the c02 tank and some paint. The gun is working flawlessly.. No misfires or studders..

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:49 PM #15
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As already mentioned in the thread, probably mid-low pressure tank. The output regulator on the tanks them self can have different pressure. A CO2 tank puts out atleast 800psi which will hide any underlying problems and keep working where 600psi HPA will need everything to work.

You could just need to clean and oil it, or maybe you red striker oring is failing. Under normal conditions you may not have noticed. Or maybe there is a screw loose in your frame that needs to be a little tighter.
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I'm all out of ideas again and this text is so plain.

I'm still not sure how I feel about this new look.
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