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Old 02-04-2013, 08:50 AM #1
abenguyen
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Springless Poppet Kit problem- Bolt Sticks too far forward and misfiring?

Just installed my springless poppet kit. Silver insert piece is lubed (factory lube) and poppet orings lubed. Keep in mind I had no problems prior to this install but wanted to update to the springless kit to avoid any future problems.

Stock bolt/spring: when aired up the bolt was sticking too far forward, as if the spring was not providing enough force to push it back. You can see about 3-4mm of the bolt tip in the breach and because of this balls were not loading into the breach. So I changed to the TECHT MRT bolt/spring I had purchased.

TECHT MRT bolt/spring: the bolt is now returned far enough back to load balls without issue. However now, it would fire 4-6 shots fine, then after would fire when no ball was seen in the breach and then continue firing normally. This happened 3 times when shooting through about 40 balls or so.

Has anybody else had this issue? Possibly a bad stock bolt spring? But what could be causing the random misfires/dryfires in between streams of paint, would that be an eye malfunction?
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:16 AM #2
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OK, let's work on the stock configuration first:
Take out the internals and put the stock bolt on the bolt guide. The back of the bolt should touch the bumper easily.
Does the back of the bolt touch bumper?
If so, when you first assemble the bolt assembly back into the gun, does the bolt look far enough back in the breech?
When you gas up the gun does the bolt then move forward and stick too far into the breech? Or when you fire the gun does the bolt not return all the way back and clear the breech?

We need some of the above questions answered first, please.

Jack
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:42 AM #3
B Web
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When your doing as Jack suggested, check your bolt guide and inside the marker for abrasions. Could you have mixed up the stock spring and MRT spring?
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:05 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
OK, let's work on the stock configuration first:
Take out the internals and put the stock bolt on the bolt guide. The back of the bolt should touch the bumper easily.
Does the back of the bolt touch bumper?
Nope, the bolt sits a few mm in front of the bumper, and when pushed back it always pushes back forward. I noticed this shortly after installing the springless poppet.

If so, when you first assemble the bolt assembly back into the gun, does the bolt look far enough back in the breech?
When you gas up the gun does the bolt then move forward and stick too far into the breech? Or when you fire the gun does the bolt not return all the way back and clear the breech?
When assembled the bolt looks far enough back in the breech prior to gassing the marker up. Once gassed up the bolt sticks forward too far in the breech prior to any shots or cycling of the marker

We need some of the above questions answered first, please.

Jack
Of course good sir, answers in bold above



Quote:
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When your doing as Jack suggested, check your bolt guide and inside the marker for abrasions. Could you have mixed up the stock spring and MRT spring?
Nope I made sure that I did not switch up the springs. The spring tension differ enough between both plus the slight color difference has kept me from switching it up. Plus I have kept both bolt/springs together correctly while switching making plenty sure to avoid any accidental switching.

Last edited by abenguyen : 02-05-2013 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:33 PM #5
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Does the Poppet shaft easily slide inside the bolt? You may need to disassemble the whole thing to check this. The tip of the poppet should easily slide in and out of the small inner diameter of the bolt assembly.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:32 AM #6
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Does the Poppet shaft easily slide inside the bolt? You may need to disassemble the whole thing to check this. The tip of the poppet should easily slide in and out of the small inner diameter of the bolt assembly.
I wouldn't say easily but no difficulty either. It just slides in and out with medium resistance.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:54 AM #7
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Can you have a look at your old Firing poppet and check that it has the 004 o-ring on it, as it sounds as though there is something jammed inside of the bolt insert.

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Old 02-05-2013, 12:05 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky T View Post
Can you have a look at your old Firing poppet and check that it has the 004 o-ring on it, as it sounds as though there is something jammed inside of the bolt insert.

Nicky T
Yes what I noticed about my old firing poppet was the 004 oring was not it. In fact, that portion of the firing poppet seemed "cut off" or missing. The edge is slightly sharp as if the previous owner cut it off, maybe due to this reason.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:52 PM #9
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:39 AM #10
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:33 AM #11
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There is the answer. For some reason that part of the poppet has snapped off and is probably now jammed in the back of the bolt. This will stop the new poppet from going all the way up the inside of the bolt insert. As soon as you gas it up, the plunger in the back of the new poppet will extend and push the poppet and the bolt forward into the breech.

If you can send nick.t@planeteclipse.com an email he will arrange to get a new bolt out to you.

Jack
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:49 AM #12
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Springless poppit kit? I am either way out of the loop, or I shouldn't be privy to this conversation...is this a new upgrade for Etha owners? Where is the info on this?
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:30 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
There is the answer. For some reason that part of the poppet has snapped off and is probably now jammed in the back of the bolt. This will stop the new poppet from going all the way up the inside of the bolt insert. As soon as you gas it up, the plunger in the back of the new poppet will extend and push the poppet and the bolt forward into the breech.

If you can send nick.t@planeteclipse.com an email he will arrange to get a new bolt out to you.

Jack
Thanks Jack, that makes sense. I never thought to look into the bolt insert where the poppet enters. I'll check later today and update this thread just as FYI to others. I will go ahead and email Nicky about a new bolt.

Relating to my second set up question. Do you know why the misfiring in between my shots is happening in between my streams of paint? I'm just wondering why I can shoot a stream of paint then in the middle have a blank shot but then the stream continues right after. Could it be the eyes misbehaving or the solenoid just continuing to cycle though the eyes do not detect a ball?


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Springless poppit kit? I am either way out of the loop, or I shouldn't be privy to this conversation...is this a new upgrade for Etha owners? Where is the info on this?
All you need to know is that early runs of the Etha (and I'm guessing some newer ones as well) had poppet spring issues where they would either bend or compress prematurely causing firing issues. Eclipse, I'm sure mainly Jack Wood here, found the solution to this problem with the springless poppet kit. If you register your marker with the Eclipse website and email Nicky T through the email listed above, they will take care of you quickly as they did for me. The upgrade is free of charge as long as your marker is within warranty and registered I believe.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:38 AM #14
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Abe, did you ever send me that email about the new bolt as i haven't received anything as yet?

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Old 02-11-2013, 08:03 AM #15
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Abe, did you ever send me that email about the new bolt as i haven't received anything as yet?

Nicky T
I'll go ahead and send you another one now.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:27 PM #16
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My friend's factory poppet also snapped off same as picture above during a woodsball tourney, told him to go to our local dealer to sort it out n get the springless... what caused it to snap? Batch of bad materials?
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:07 PM #17
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My friend's factory poppet also snapped off same as picture above during a woodsball tourney, told him to go to our local dealer to sort it out n get the springless... what caused it to snap? Batch of bad materials?
That's a good question I didn't think to ask, lets wait for Jack Wood to chime in and let us know. If your shop didn't take care of you email Nicky T at his email listed and he'll get you sorted out. Make sure your friend's Etha is registered on the Eclipse website.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:40 AM #18
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We have seen a couple of bolt inserts where the pocket in the back that the #004 o-ring slides into is fractionally too shallow. This means the end of the poppet is coming into contact with the bottom of the pocket which is stressing the part which can lead to it breaking.

It is also important to make sure that the joiner piece of the firing assembly is screwed in tight to the back cap. If it isn't tight, the poppet sits further forward than it should and this can make the situation worse.

Jack
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:25 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wood View Post
We have seen a couple of bolt inserts where the pocket in the back that the #004 o-ring slides into is fractionally too shallow. This means the end of the poppet is coming into contact with the bottom of the pocket which is stressing the part which can lead to it breaking.

It is also important to make sure that the joiner piece of the firing assembly is screwed in tight to the back cap. If it isn't tight, the poppet sits further forward than it should and this can make the situation worse.

Jack
Thanks Jack, that makes complete sense
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:54 AM #20
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Hi my name is jak, I think to have a similar problem with my Planet Eclipse Etha, because last week-and the bolt is stuck forward, compressing the spring. when I pressed the trigger I heard a different sound than usual.
the bolt is released only when I removed the pressure.
The same problem has happened to the marker of one of my team-mate, we bought the markers together and we shot about the same number of paintballs, we did 5 months of training and a small tournament.
Someone tell me what could have happened?
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:23 PM #21
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I have the same problem as above. Last week I broke the tip off my 3rd poppet this year. Gerry was nice enough to send me a new poppet and bolt the second time. I also had a problem with low velocity. Gerry sent me a new solenoid and that problem went away. I think I am out of courtesy parts. I have watched every video I can find for maintenance and disassembly to make sure I am not doing anything wrong. Although it is pretty simple so not too much to mess up. I love the gun when it works but this has been very disappointing.
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