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Old 02-11-2013, 02:20 PM #64
jsgnado1996
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
What?
Pretty clear cut, God says marriage is between a man and a woman, any other way is immoral and sin. It wasn't the church that condemned it, God did.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:21 PM #65
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Originally Posted by jsgnado1996 View Post
but either way, gays aren't going to heaven. That is all.
I find it strange that a being that is wise and all knowing would condemn people to an eternity of torture worse then what is literally possible in the mortal realm based on a set of completely arbitrary rules that serve no purpose.

I'd think an entity of unlimited wisdom would operate on a level of moral development beyond that of a 4th grader

edit: oh for **** sake, I'm sorry but if you really believe that a book that was passed down for several thousand years by men, men who belong to an organization with a well chronicled history of political ambition has reached present day without influence or manipulation by the church you're just a ****ing idiot.

Last edited by Snake13 : 02-11-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:23 PM #66
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Originally Posted by jsgnado1996 View Post
Pretty clear cut, God says marriage is between a man and a woman, any other way is immoral and sin. It wasn't the church that condemned it, God did.
I didn't ask why gay marriage is wrong. I asked where it says "gays aren't going to heaven".
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:24 PM #67
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Originally Posted by jsgnado1996 View Post
Pretty clear cut, God says marriage is between a man and a woman, any other way is immoral and sin. It wasn't the church that condemned it, God did.
God didn't write the bible, man did... several times.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:28 PM #68
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I don't think there is one that says you can't. Most people think the "judge not...." Says you can't. But they forget the other part that says "......lest you yourself be judged"

Basically saying, don't be a hypocrite.
The implication of matthew 7:1-5 is that all have sinned and all have fall short. Anyone who passes judgement is a hypocrite.

Likewise Luke 6:37 states "judge not, and you will not be judged;condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"
So one could extrapolate the opposite is true. By judging and condemning homosexuals to damnation, he himself will be judged and damned.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:28 PM #69
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Originally Posted by Snake13 View Post
I find it strange that a being that is wise and all knowing would condemn people to an eternity of torture worse then what is literally possible in the mortal realm based on a set of completely arbitrary rules that serve no purpose.

I'd think an entity of unlimited wisdom would operate on a level of moral development beyond that of a 4th grader

edit: oh for **** sake, I'm sorry but if you really believe that a book that was passed down for several thousand years by men, men who belong to an organization with a well chronicled history of political ambition has reached present day without influence or manipulation by the church you're just a ****ing idiot.
I can't wait till I get to say the same things about progressives and enlightenment authors.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:30 PM #70
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Originally Posted by automagsrule View Post
The implication of matthew 7:1-5 is that all have sinned and all have fall short. Anyone who passes judgement is a hypocrite.

Likewise Luke 6:37 states "judge not, and you will not be judged;condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"
So one could extrapolate the opposite is true. By judging and condemning homosexuals to damnation, he himself will be judged and damned.
I sincerely disagree with your analysis of luke. I still stand by what I said about Matthew which I paraphrased earlier.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:31 PM #71
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Originally Posted by tmanbuckhunter View Post
God didn't write the bible, man did... several times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake13 View Post
I'm sorry but if you really believe that a book that was passed down for several thousand years by men, men who belong to an organization with a well chronicled history of political ambition has reached present day without influence or manipulation by the church you're just a ****ing idiot.
This point is unfounded because we have copies of before the church was a "organization with a well chronicled history of political ambition". They don't look that different.

------

Also, can we hold this off until after he answers this:

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I didn't ask why gay marriage is wrong. I asked where it says "gays aren't going to heaven".
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Last edited by TheSilentAssassin : 02-11-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:34 PM #72
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You stupid fool! How could you not know that Truth deteriorates with age?
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:35 PM #73
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I can't wait till I get to say the same things about progressives and enlightenment authors.
How does this statement even make sense?
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:38 PM #74
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How does this statement even make sense?
Well I think progressive morals are childish in nature. When the work that spawned progressive thinking is old enough, I can say believing in an old ideology is stupid
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:39 PM #75
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This point is unfounded because we have copies of before the church was a "organization with a well chronicled history of political ambition". They don't look that different.
You mean you have copies written by the church before they were old enough for their political ambitions to be called "history"?
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:45 PM #76
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Well I think progressive morals are childish in nature. When the work that spawned progressive thinking is old enough, I can say believing in an old ideology is stupid
I don't think you really understand what "progressive" means (hint: holding to an ancient text or author to be the supreme authority on something just "because" isn't really their style)
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:47 PM #77
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Guys, it wasn't until the 18th century that divisions between religious and political life began to exist. Before Christianity, the idea of ones "private life" was practically unheard of. There was little, if any, division between a man and his community.

You are taking an entirely different frame of mind and projecting it onto another and then levying criticism against it.

Last edited by Iamamartianchurch : 02-11-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:48 PM #78
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You mean you have copies written by the church before they were old enough for their political ambitions to be called "history"?
You are arguing that the church has manipulated the text for means of political ambition, are you not? This can simply be shown not to be true by looking at the originals we do have (when the church was being oppressed; still 300 some years before Christians would have any political power) and noticing how they have not changed (this is because modern translations are often derived from the originals themselves; not a compounded transformation).

Maybe, I am just confused as to the argument you are making.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:50 PM #79
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I don't think you really understand what "progressive" means (hint: holding to an ancient text or author to be the supreme authority on something just "because" isn't really their style)
liberalism is a distinct social and political movement that is easily defined and understood. It carries with it a set of concrete axioms from which it derives all ideology and thus morality. There exist branches of liberal thought which are distinguished from others on that tree, hence the use of the term progressive.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:56 PM #80
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
liberalism is a distinct social and political movement that is easily defined and understood. It carries with it a set of concrete axioms from which it derives all ideology and thus morality. There exist branches of liberal thought which are distinguished from others on that tree, hence the use of the term progressive.
You could have just said "no, I don't understand"
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:02 PM #81
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What does this have to do with the topic? If you want to discuss R&P, go to R&P
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:04 PM #82
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You could have just said "no, I don't understand"
I used the word progressive to reference something specific - an ideology which has lineage in an 18th century movement. I did not use it to describe some vague notion of progress and those who believe in progressing. please do not parse my words.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:16 PM #83
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I used the word progressive to reference something specific - an ideology which has lineage in an 18th century movement. I did not use it to describe some vague notion of progress and those who believe in progressing. please do not parse my words.
It may have a lineage dating back to the 18th century but it has changed a great deal since then, evolved if you will, largely because it is self critical and defines itself on the idea of moving forward.

If only there was a word that would encapsulate such characteristics

edit: I was finding your posts kind of amusing till I read some of your posting history and have come to the realization that you're a ****ing sociopath.

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Old 02-11-2013, 03:20 PM #84
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What does this have to do with the topic? If you want to discuss R&P, go to R&P
If you can't understand the political implications of this, maybe you should be the one to leave.
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