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Old 02-04-2013, 09:04 AM #22
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Originally Posted by Volucris View Post
What are you on about now?




Hardly. Can't say I've ever been an advocate for allowing businesses to rape the earth as they please.

>people think I'm some rapetheearth****yeahletsgotowarneocon because I'm a gun rights advocate

***** pls
Coming from the guy who called me a gun grabbing liberal because I wanted an honest debate, hilarious.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:19 AM #23
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Two interesting points

1. It will be intersting to see if all the health issues that many have said would result in polution. China in the next 10-20 years should be having massive health problems

2. I fail to see how the US cutting it's emissions will help global warming. China is putting out twice as much as us, and they're only going to grow. Instead of trying to make nuclear weapons, they should be investing in nuclear power.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:28 AM #24
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Speaking of global warming, didn't someone just leak some IPCC just have some documentation leaked where they said solar activity plays a larger role than they had originally thought?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:09 AM #25
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I haven't heard of it.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:17 AM #26
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Originally Posted by OccupyST View Post
Not to keep beating an old drum, but your comment could also be applied to the little gun control debate... Yet people discuss it to no end. Just saying..
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. It should pretty easy to understand why Americans discussing a fundamental right that is enumerated in our Constitution is a more worthwhile topic than Americans discussing what should be done about China's pollution problem.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:21 AM #27
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Found it - AR5 is the document name. I still have to read through it myself and see what it says.

linky-poo
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:39 PM #28
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OccupyST, great link on the ghost cities. My (small) investment portfolio thanks you.

I strongly believe in national sovereignty as long as basic human rights are not in violation. The implication here is will China's pollution further ruin not just their country but the world through global warming?

If you're a believer in global warming, than China's pollutive state has to be a concern to you. If you don't believe in global warming...than keep living the dream.

I think the Chinese population will not tolerate further inaction by the government so I don't think we (USA) need to get involved in any kind of military or economically intrusive measure.

What we should do is work to build more energy efficient solutions we can sell to the Chinese. Dibs on smog eating app...
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:41 PM #29
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Originally Posted by ladd_17 View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. It should pretty easy to understand why Americans discussing a fundamental right that is enumerated in our Constitution is a more worthwhile topic than Americans discussing what should be done about China's pollution problem.
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Do you all not think this will have global effects?
This is about more than China's pollution problem.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:55 PM #30
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Misread, never thee mind.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:56 PM #31
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I don't know if I care that their pollution will or will not have global effects.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:59 PM #32
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I don't know if I care that their pollution will or will not have global effects.
Why? Don't care about mercury levels in your seafood? Not concerned about illnesses caused by air quality? Or are you intentionally being obtuse?
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:03 PM #33
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:06 PM #34
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Why? Don't care about mercury levels in your seafood? Not concerned about illnesses caused by air quality? Or are you intentionally being obtuse?
The sooner we burn through fossil fuels the better. I'll take a hit on the longevity of my life.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:09 PM #35
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The sooner we burn through fossil fuels the better. I'll take a hit on the longevity of my life.
Are you taking an Oscar Wilde-esque approach to this? The old "the only thing worse than poverty is the charity that keeps the problem of poverty from actually being fixed" idea?
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:11 PM #36
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Are you taking an Oscar Wilde-esque approach to this? The old "the only thing worse than poverty is charity that keeps poverty going" idea?
Who the hell is that? I know I can probably Google him.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:15 PM #37
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Didn't see you added more to that.

All I'm saying is, we aren't going to kick the habit so to speak. So either we burn through them resulting in a gradual winding down of industrial society or we are saved by some miracle resource or technology. Either option seems preferable to me at this point.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:17 PM #38
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We should just take over China so we can solve all their problems for them.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:20 PM #39
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Didn't see you added more to that.

All I'm saying is, we aren't going to kick the habit so to speak. So either we burn through them resulting in a gradual winding down of industrial society or we are saved by some miracle resource or technology. Either option seems preferable to me at this point.
Ya, that's basically Oscar Wilde. Charity is bad because it allows poverty to continue instead of it being completely removed. The worst slave owner is the nicest one because he allows people not ignore the atrocities of slavery. In this case, a conservative (little c) approach to fossil fuels is only pushing the problem back a couple decades. Better deal with it now than let it continue.

If you are interested, Zizek on Oscar Wilde:
Starts around 5:15, but if you like Zizek then I would just watch the whole things.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:26 PM #40
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Ya, that's basically Oscar Wilde. Charity is bad because it allows poverty to continue instead of it being completely removed. The worst slave owner is the nicest one because he allows people not ignore the atrocities of slavery.

If you are interested, Zizek on Oscar Wilde:
Starts around 5:15, but if you like Zizek then I would just watch the whole things.
I've come to believe that slavery or indentured servitude is the answer to poverty. Exchange labor for accommodations including food and access to standards of living which the poor in ability cannot provide for themselves. That probably sounds horrible. But it is the most humane option when you consider every alternative.

I agree though, let's get rid of em sooner. We can make use of alternative technologies, which lack the output of fossil fuels, to live more comfortable simple lives with far less.

I'll watch that when I get access to an unrestricted computer.

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Old 02-04-2013, 01:47 PM #41
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Indentured servitude is NOT a bad thing, at all. That doesn't sound horrible.

You want to get to the Americas? Work for me for 5 or 6 years.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:00 PM #42
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Indentured servitude is NOT a bad thing, at all. That doesn't sound horrible.

You want to get to the Americas? Work for me for 5 or 6 years.
People don't realize that freedom for much of the world means living in straw huts, ****ting in reads and wrecked by disease. Being a servant elevates you from these tendencies. However, when released from service, such individuals will revert back to their default state. Despite having access to the luxuries and resources of civilization. They will misuse and destroy these resources not out of maliciousness but simple nature. Inner cities are not straw huts but the conditions are deteriorating and the behavior is identical. This is a huge disservice to the host population who built the civilization because of the gradual lowering of quality for all. This is the essence of poverty.

Obviously any good natured man would grant freedom to all who do not display evidence of these behaviors.

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