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Old 01-31-2013, 09:36 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Who told you that? Why would an insurance company base their policy on one ASTM standard and ignore another ASTM standard?
Are you sure you're correct?... The ASTM rates lenses for impact force, and 300fps happens to be the safe velocity to meet the average force required for a .68 ball to stay within the ASTM standards. Since that's what the lenses have to meet (because you don't measure force when you chrono a marker) insurance companies will require that you chrono to that. Now, if you can prove that the round type in question has a lower impact force with the correct documentation (just saying "I shot the lens" doesn't count), there's really nothing stopping the insurance company from legally being able to say "Alright, you're good to chrono .50 to 3XX". It doesn't take re-writing ASTM rating standards to prove that your ball can move at a higher velocity while still being well within the force threshold.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:24 PM #44
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Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
Are you sure you're correct?... The ASTM rates lenses for impact force, and 300fps happens to be the safe velocity to meet the average force required for a .68 ball to stay within the ASTM standards. Since that's what the lenses have to meet (because you don't measure force when you chrono a marker) insurance companies will require that you chrono to that. Now, if you can prove that the round type in question has a lower impact force with the correct documentation (just saying "I shot the lens" doesn't count), there's really nothing stopping the insurance company from legally being able to say "Alright, you're good to chrono .50 to 3XX". It doesn't take re-writing ASTM rating standards to prove that your ball can move at a higher velocity while still being well within the force threshold.
I'm pretty sure I'm correct. There is at least one member here on PBN that is sitting on the ASTM committee and I quite clearly remember him posting that the ASTM committee recommended 300 fps max., no matter what the caliber. I'm pretty sure it was even here in the 50 cal forum, so if someone wants to take the time to search for it, I'm sure it could be found.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:57 AM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
recommended
There's the keyword here.

Like I said earlier, 300fps is what insurance goes by since it's essentially the fastest safe zone for impact ratings. They recommend it to be 300fps, but they don't rate it by the speed but more the force of the impact, which is what this was all about. If a .50 ball has less impact force, then it could safely be ran at speeds greater than 300fps.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:04 AM #46
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Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
There's the keyword here.

Like I said earlier, 300fps is what insurance goes by since it's essentially the fastest safe zone for impact ratings. They recommend it to be 300fps, but they don't rate it by the speed but more the force of the impact, which is what this was all about. If a .50 ball has less impact force, then it could safely be ran at speeds greater than 300fps.
Yes, ASTM standards are not law. They are recommendations that groups of "experts" sitting on committees come up with and many companies (and Governments) use ASTM standards because they do not want to go to the trouble and cost of doing their own research and hiring their own experts. The ASTM standard for paintball velocity is maximum 300 fps (for all paintballs). Yes, 50 caliber paintballs have less impact force than 63 caliber which have less than 68 caliber. But that doesn't change the ASTM standard for maximum paintball velocity.

Now you are welcome to try to get on the ASTM committee for paintball and see if you can change the standard.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:03 AM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
The ASTM standard for paintball velocity is maximum 300 fps (for all paintballs)
I'm 99.9999% sure that there's no standard paintball velocity maximum of 300fps... I think that insurance companies go with it because that's what has been determined to be the safe velocity that is directly related to the impact forces of the lens, but lenses aren't rated to the impact of 300fps, they're rated to the force of the impact at 300fps. That's the reason 300fps is the standard, because the force of a ball moving at 300fps puts out less force than the lens is supposed to withstand, but ASTM doesn't rate lenses to 300fps.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:30 AM #48
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.50 CAL IS DEAD, Changing the speed of the balls just makes things more complicated. The sooner 50cal dies the better for the game
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:40 AM #49
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.50 CAL IS DEAD, Changing the speed of the balls just makes things more complicated. The sooner 50cal dies the better for the game
Why would you say the sooner it dies, the better for the game? How is it hurting paintball?

50 cal seems to be slowly growing. I don't think it will ever replace 68 cal, but the lower impact of 50 cal seems to be helping to attract a much wider demographic (more people) to paintball. Why would that be a bad thing?

I do find it a bit amusing that everyone jumped all over 50 caliber in a negative way when Italia tried to market it as a viable option or replacement for 68 caliber, but when JT introduced 50 caliber and their SplatMasters, most everyone accepted it with open arms. I understand it, but I do find it a little amusing.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:55 AM #50
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Why would you say the sooner it dies, the better for the game? How is it hurting paintball?

50 cal seems to be slowly growing. I don't think it will ever replace 68 cal, but the lower impact of 50 cal seems to be helping to attract a much wider demographic (more people) to paintball. Why would that be a bad thing?

I do find it a bit amusing that everyone jumped all over 50 caliber in a negative way when Italia tried to market it as a viable option or replacement for 68 caliber, but when JT introduced 50 caliber and their SplatMasters, most everyone accepted it with open arms. I understand it, but I do find it a little amusing.
All of this. .50 is just another option and one with a different set of physical properties, that's it. It's not just for entry into paintball, it's also for those people where the pros outweigh the cons.

Is a car better for everyone? No, many people prefer a motorcycle which only has size and fuel for it's pros but there are people who find them more fun than a car to drive and so they're used for that reason.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:16 AM #51
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Funny thing is that there was briefly supposed to be a .63 caliber football shaped round for the Macho Fire, and there was .62 for the SMG-60 from Tippmann. I did think it was unlikely that anyone had a real interest in comparing them.
do you have any pics i am interested
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:46 PM #52
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50cal is dumb
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:43 PM #53
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50cal is dumb
And why would that be?
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:09 PM #54
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50 is never catching on. give it up
noone at my field uses it!! maybe its because everyone that plays there competes in tournaments that use 68
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:33 PM #55
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noone at my field uses it!! maybe its because everyone that plays there competes in tournaments that use 68
Yeah, 50 cal will be mostly used in rental situations for those that want to try paintball but are a little worried about the pain. Anyone that gets really serious about paintball will most likely be choosing 68 caliber. But if it gets more people to the fields, that's a good thing.
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