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Old 02-02-2013, 11:50 AM #1
jblindy
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10 years out...getting back in

Hey all, what's up. I'm not really new to paintball, it's just been about ten years since I have played.

A little about me. I guess now days you can call me old school. When I last played DM4's, Shockers, Angel Fly's, Bob Long Intimidators, and Dragon Intimidators were all the rage. Halo's were just being perfected and VL had the "Egg". Smart Parts was still Smart Parts, WDP was still in business and producing great markers, and DYE had just bought the rights to the Matrix. Planet Eclipse didn't make markers, they just improved on what was already available. E-blade anyone? The sport had just split with NPPL on one side and PSP on the other, paintball was just getting televised coverage and ramping was considered cheating.

My team played the NPPL series and I have played Huntington Beach, New Jersey, Mardi Gras, Chicago, and Miami.

I have owned many cockers, many angels, Aardvark Tequila Sunrise(if anybody remembers what that was) was my pride and joy, many a Matrix, a Shocker, and a DM4.

Now that you know a little of my background I have a tiny question that I would imagine is asked quite often. I am wanting to start playing again, nothing as serious as I used to but I want to be able to hang with the kids at the field as well as take my boys out to play the sport that I used to love.

I want to buy a good used marker but want to stay in the range of 300-400 bucks. I prefer spool but would venture to try a poppit. What is a good hopper now days, are Halo's with upgraded boards still all the rage or is there something better. What about HPA? Has efficiency improved at all? I used to be able to get about 5 pods and a hopper off a 68/45. Is that still the case? Any help to this oft asked question would help greatly. Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:07 PM #2
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AS far as Markers go. you can pick up a dm7/8 for around $300 easily. they are a lot more effiecient than the original matrix and dm4. also for poppits, egos 05/06 can be had for very cheap. the $200 range.

Loaders- Halos are out dated, but can be found for as low as $30 shipped on here. still decent, but Dye rotors are my favorite. Light, and batteries last a lot longer than anyother loader ive owned.

your best bet is to check out the "gearbag sales" in the BST forums. people quitting the sport off load gear for cheap and sometimes they are almost new for a quarter of the cost. hope this helps!
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:51 PM #3
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Thanks for the reply. How does the Ego shoot compared to a Bob Long Intimidator? I never owned a Timmy but have held and shot them many times. I just always preferred the smoothness of the spool. How does a Geo compare to a DMxx? Pros and cons? Remember, I'm wanting to buy used, at least a few years old marker.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:09 PM #4
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:20 PM #5
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The geo shoots nice... A little louder than the dms, but overall basically the same concept. Egos are very smooth and easy to maintain. They almost never I down. Compared to a Timmy, they are very similar, just a little smaller an lighter.

If looking for a great deal, shoot a dm6/7 or 05/06 ego. They are the best overall for the price if each category in my opinion. And can be found for under 300. Mind you they are still $1000 guns when they were released, so the technology is still outstanding.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:33 PM #6
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The geo shoots nice... A little louder than the dms, but overall basically the same concept. Egos are very smooth and easy to maintain. They almost never I down. Compared to a Timmy, they are very similar, just a little smaller an lighter.

If looking for a great deal, shoot a dm6/7 or 05/06 ego. They are the best overall for the price if each category in my opinion. And can be found for under 300. Mind you they are still $1000 guns when they were released, so the technology is still outstanding.
Thanks.

DM6 was the first year that ramping was programmed from the factory correct? What year did they start making the Ego? I see that they are making the Ego 11 now but I sold all my gear in 2003 and don't remember an Ego at that time.

What about the Geo. When did it first hit the scene? There is the Geo, 2, 2.1, and 3 correct? The 3 is more money than I am willing to spend for casual play. Is there a visual difference between the previous three? Performance difference?
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:42 PM #7
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I might be wrong but I could of swore I read somewhere that they aren't even making parts for the 5/6 ego anymore. You might want to stay away from it.

As far as dm's go, I just recently got rid of a dm6, it had no problem keeping up w/ any of the markers that were being shot on the field especially during casual play. Still shot as quiet and smooth as it ever did and didn't miss a beat.

I'm sure you've heard this and if you search you'll read it.... a axe is a great mid end marker that you can find for right around $350ish brand new. Find one in b/s/t thats been taken care of for cheaper. They're inline poppets and shoot very very good, when I had one the only thing I upgraded was the barrel to a lurker .678 for like $34.

I just got back into it about 4 months ago... a DM6 was the last marker I bought before I quit.

In the last 4 months I've owned quite a few markers(pmr,dm6,axe,pink lady geo 2.1,luxe 2.0,ego 11, csl) and lost quite a bit of money but ultimately I've ended up w/ a CSL and midnight ego 11 and that is where I am staying as I absolutely love these markers and will only get rid of the midnight 11 if the 13 is that far superior.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:48 PM #8
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Thanks.

DM6 was the first year that ramping was programmed from the factory correct? What year did they start making the Ego? I see that they are making the Ego 11 now but I sold all my gear in 2003 and don't remember an Ego at that time.

What about the Geo. When did it first hit the scene? There is the Geo, 2, 2.1, and 3 correct? The 3 is more money than I am willing to spend for casual play. Is there a visual difference between the previous three? Performance difference?
egos came out in 05 - the Eblade2 mixed with a Timmy/the AKA Viking = ego... hell the E2 board fits in an 05/06 ego frame no problem.

geo came around in... 09 i believe.

i'd say there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an Alias Timmy still, or if you wanna go slightly newer, find a vice. hell, you could probably go Gen 2 Timmy and all the boys would be jealous of your killer Dragon Intimidator... (I know I would...) apparently skip gen 4 timmy's (though i want one BAD)

not certain about DM's and ramping years, but 06 is when the UL frame was introduced.

geo 2.1 is a geo with a soft touch bolt i believe and a new reg collar... possibly also a pops asa instead of their oops.

and the new Axe (which is the replacement for the Invert Mini) is a pretty sweet deal - empire's got XSV shooting them, proving that you don't need a $1500 marker to compete.

I still have a Halo, albeit with a B2 board. and I love it... but I wish i had a prophecy. the battery door on halos sucks big time.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:50 PM #9
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Anything suggested here is decent. Most of the newer poppet guns are pretty much as smooth as the spoolers anyway so you can't go wrong. Some spool guns are even pretty good efficiency wise these days too.


Dye rotor, Spire are the two kings of hopper. Plenty of other cheaper ones that will work fine too though. There are even a lot of Halo clones that will work well.

Over all I'd just read the forums and see what's up. Welcome back.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:51 PM #10
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I do have my eyes on a few used Axe's. The only thing that is making me wary is the inline poppit (is it reliable?) and the lack of a traditional regulator. The non-traditional design is what puts me off I suppose. I like to tinker with my markers to make them better. Are they easy to maintain? Efficient? Reliable?
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:56 PM #11
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I do have my eyes on a few used Axe's. The only thing that is making me wary is the inline poppit (is it reliable?) and the lack of a traditional regulator. The non-traditional design is what puts me off I suppose. I like to tinker with my markers to make them better. Are they easy to maintain? Efficient? Reliable?
yes yes and yes... and yes. i think that's all.

Simon (Lead [i believe] Engineer at KEE) is a brilliant man, The Mini/Axe layout is very reliable.

i'm the same way... i held off and the first thing i did was just break in my mini - i dry fired the hell out of it. Lurker has an upgrade bolt for the mini/axe - if you want to upgrade at all, that would be step 1. lurker is a mod here and practically a genius.. i'm very much in awe of him.

i haven't had a single issue with my mini - i love it to bits. and it's all stock. i just had one little manufacturing defect that an $8 part fixed cuz I didn't feel like dealing with NPS.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:03 PM #12
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Over all I'd just read the forums and see what's up. Welcome back.
Thanks, that's what I've been doing to catch up with the times. I can't believe how much it's changed since I was playing tourny level paintball. Hell, like I originally posted, you were a cheater if you used a modified board to ramp back in the day. Now they are built that way from the factory! Well, I guess if you can't stop it, may as well make the field even all around.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:22 PM #13
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Axe is a reliable marker and the customer service is top notch if something does break. I bought my axe brand new from a store around here. Kept having it chew up poppet seals. The store here provided me w/ enough poppet seals to "finish out the season" as the owner said.

I contacted kee, told them what was going on, didnt ask for anything other than my address and sent me a brand new guide which fixed the issue.

I wouldn't add a bolt to a axe unless you absolutely have to. While people are in awe of lurkers bolts I think its garbage and not worth the $ (my personal opinion and experience w/ it and his customer service w/ it). The barrel on other hand is top notch as well as the lube. My axe was operating around 170 and back was sweet spotted, using the lurker barrel, the axe was deadly accurate and quiet.

As far as hoppers go, I have a spire. I absolutely hated it on my luxe 2.0, I tried every setting that others have and I tried the settings that virtue suggested as well and it didnt work that well on it. Think, having to shake the marker to get the last 50-75 balls to be fed or it flung them out like popcorn. On my ego's it is working great but I think I'm ditching it and going with the rotor.

Mask, if you still have a flex, you'll still have one of the top notch masks.

Tank, Ninja tanks and regs are the hot commodity on the market right now

As far as pod packs, pants,pads and any other soft goods go. I still really only buy dye products as their soft goods seem to last quite a long time. I'd rather buy something every few years than buy something every year thats cheap.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:32 PM #14
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Wish I still had my JT Flex! Never wore anything dye, we had to go all JT. Never had a problem and I loved their pants. I just noticed that I still had their link in my sig but it's dead. Were they a casualty of the times also?
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:59 PM #15
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Wish I still had my JT Flex! Never wore anything dye, we had to go all JT. Never had a problem and I loved their pants. I just noticed that I still had their link in my sig but it's dead. Were they a casualty of the times also?
JT is still doing great, same thing with their ProFlex mask. Empire took the Proflex and made the E-flex, basically an E-Vent mask that can take flex bottoms.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:23 PM #16
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KEE owns the JT name now, they still produce Flexes, and some flex parts, as well as releasing a line of soft goods under the JT brand. Back in the day, JT got sucked up in the Brass Eagle/Viewloader stable of products, which really put a hurting on them. They weren't so much a casualty of the bad times, as they were a casualty of the good times!

Too bad you don't still have that old Aardvark Trix, those are worth some serious cash now on the collectors' market. A lot of the old private label Trixes have rebounded in value lately.

Gun wise, I looked around a bit today, if I wanted a poppet based marker, I'd look for a used Bob Long Vice. There aren't a ton of them out there, but the going price is excellent, and well within your budget. They are very smooth shooters as well, I owned the Vice's sister gun(same internals, different milling), the Protege for a while, very smooth for a poppet. It seems that Bob Long guns in general have hit the bottom of the market and rebounded a bit. Intimidator values have risen somewhat in the last year or so.

The Halo-B is still a good, functional loader IMHO. I actually just built myself a couple of them; there are several retailers trying to move old stocks of parts and upgrades for next to nothing. So long as you can find a good condition catch-cup, motor and gear assembly, you can pretty much replace the drive-cone/clutch, board and shells for around $30. If you're on a tight budget you could have yourself a solid loader for $50 by going that route.

The newer generation loaders, the Prophecy, Rotor and Spire, will provide a BIG step up over the old Halo-B platform in terms of weight, battery life, ease of maintenance, and capacity. Of course, they carry a much heftier price tag to go with those improved features. I'm currently using a regular Prophecy(not LTD or Z2), and it's been an excellent loader. The popularity of the Rotor speaks for itself, although if you're looking for one make sure it is newer, the older versions have their share of bugs. The Spire is growing in popularity, I haven't heard too much negative feedback about it, which is remarkable for a brand new product.

HPA, there have been a LOT of improvements, current HPA systems are simpler, easier to work with, smaller, and lighter than ever before. Ninja is pretty much setting the standard for the industry at this point. Crossfire still makes a solid tank/reg, but it's not quite as user friendly as the Ninja tanks. As for efficiency, that's down to the guns, and it has improved markedly. An average poppet gun these days is expected to give almost a case, if not more, and in some cases much more from a full 68/4500 fill. Spool valve markers still give away a bit of efficiency to poppet guns, but with a well tuned, modern spool valve setup 8+ pods and a hopper is not out of the question. Newer HPA tank regulators are also capable of maintaining stable output down to lower pressures than ever before, allowing the user to squeeze every last shot out of a fill.

The equipment has come a long way, but the game is still a lot the same, put paint on the other guy, before he puts it on you.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:34 PM #17
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Ive seen Dm12's go as low as $575 bro. If you're into that kind of stuff id put out the extra 150 or so and buy that. For hoppers, go for a used V3 Rotor, Empire Z2 or the beautiful Virtue Spire. Tanks... Ninja is the place for that. I personally use the SLP on all my guns, i love it. They are the lightest tanks. Shaft 4 barrels are nice but can be pricey. If youd like a cheaper good barrel, go CP no doubt. .685 is generally the most used so go some where around that. 14 inches. Masks, I4s, Slys, Grillz etc. PANTS=VALKEN 2013 REDEMPTION. BEST EVER!!!
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:42 PM #18
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What are good/average used prices for any of the above. Axe, Geo, Ego?
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:44 PM #19
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^^^ valken redemptions yeeee buddy
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:53 PM #20
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Too bad you don't still have that old Aardvark Trix, those are worth some serious cash now on the collectors' market. A lot of the old private label Trixes have rebounded in value lately.
Tell me! I kicked myself in the rear the day I sold it. It was such a beautiful marker, clear anno with red accents. It was in my collection till the day I decided to sell everything.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:59 PM #21
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EDIT: Haha, I feel you man, I wanted to pick up an NYX for a project over the winter, didn't expect them to suddenly GAIN $100+ in value! The old Gen-E's and DM LCD's are dirt cheap still, but any of those private label guns, in good condition, are now considered quite cool and collectible.

Prices depend largely on the year/edition of the marker.

'06 or older Ego should be sub-$250 unless it's something really special
'07 Ego low-mid $300's
'08 Ego High $300's - mid $400's
'09's and 10's I'd probably pass on.
11's (current model) around $700 depending on condition, special edition, etc.

That's not counting the market for the SL, or E-Tek series Egos, which have a pricing structure of their own.

DM's seem to start around $300-ish for a DM7 and then add $25-50 for a DM8 and then approximately $70 per year model (after 7) for the years following. Again price will vary depending on upgrades, condition, limited editions, etc.

Axes, don't know, never wanted one.

Just cruise around the Electro-BST, you'll get an idea of what things cost pretty quickly.
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