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Old 06-18-2012, 11:29 AM #22
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I'm in the same position as you as I'm just returning to the sport after a four year absence...Hah who would've thought 5 years ago that angel would go under before spyder...not this guy haha
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:08 AM #23
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Economy and times have changed....let's all work to grow the sport again and a good community like this one (always room to improve) is a good place to start so be good to eachother! Lol
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:04 AM #24
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Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
Yes, and your ego is a rip-off (albeit inferior) of the intimidator; the timmy is the father of stacked-tube electros as we know them.

I took a brief break from the sport as well and was surprised to see SP gone, angel dead, and the KEE empire (pun intended?). I think that the overall climate of the sport is very similar so I still feel at home. Spool valves have also become somewhat of a fad seeing as how just about everyone offers one now.
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I laughed so hard in agreement at this. I've been trying to tell people this for years and years and years! The Ego is essentially a Timmy in a different body and a few minor changes to the poppet system. By your definition, Irish Ninja, your Ego is a rich-man's Spyder.
Noah
Let me correct some things here:

First: there is nothing inherently wrong with a spyder's design. The amount of abuse the blowback design can take would destroy any of the more expensive designs and it would be possible to make a very well performing high end blowback, there just isn't the market.

Secondly: The ego and the intimidator are two entirely different animals. They may both be sheridan based poppet valves, but the similarities end there, and neither is inherently better than the other.

Third: the intimidator wasn't the first sheridan based, stacked tube, electro pneumatic, the angel which came out in 1997 was the first. It is also worth noting: the intimidator and the impulse were both released in the same year(2000).
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:46 AM #25
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Secondly: The ego and the intimidator are two entirely different animals. They may both be sheridan based poppet valves, but the similarities end there, and neither is inherently better than the other.
When PE first brought out the Ego at the cup, BobLong who's deal with NPS was souring, felt that they had essentially knocked off the timmy line which had grown stale. But besides the trigger and PE's high standards of manufacturing (they had long supplied the PB world with upgrades and many unsung stock parts), and a growing dislike by some of Gino/NPS, what real differences were there between the two guns?
I think, Ninja was elements of another air company, can't recall which though. Same for Guerilla which may have been AirAmerica.

What magazines are left on the newstand? I can't find any!
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:22 AM #26
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When PE first brought out the Ego at the cup, BobLong who's deal with NPS was souring, felt that they had essentially knocked off the timmy line which had grown stale. But besides the trigger and PE's high standards of manufacturing (they had long supplied the PB world with upgrades and many unsung stock parts), and a growing dislike by some of Gino/NPS, what real differences were there between the two guns?
I think, Ninja was elements of another air company, can't recall which though. Same for Guerilla which may have been AirAmerica.

What magazines are left on the newstand? I can't find any!
On the intimidator, the ram is pushed from opposite ends, pushed back from the front in and forwards from the back end.


The ego on the other hand has the forwards and backwards controlled in its own chamber with the forwards and backwards motion propelled by a single Oring on the back of the ram.


The ego is the most similar to the impulse(which was also introduced in 2000) except it has a significantly lighter ram which indicates it relies entirely on the air pressure from the LPR to open the valve instead of the inertia created by a heavier ram.


The ego's firing cycling speed is much faster and more forceful than the intimidator. The ego's cycle is slightly more efficient by design(however, as Bob has shown us, it is entirely possible to make the timmy design very efficient), however the intimidator's slower cycle speed makes it a slightly smoother shoot.

With the work both companies have put into their gun to improve them I can't honestly say one is better than the other. Both have overcome the weakness of their design to such an extent that performance wise they are pretty much equal and blindfolded I doubt you could tell the difference between the two.

Last edited by Paper_Cut : 01-07-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:35 AM #27
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Egos still have a little more kick than the G6R, never considered using the word Forceful, but I like it as a descriptive term with the Ego.

AGD is still alive and kicking, which is reassuring.
And the rise of CCM is impressive.
Luxe survived the SmartParts debacle, and I've heard rumor of a new closed bolt mech coming this year.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:03 AM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paper_Cut View Post
On the intimidator, the ram is pushed from opposite ends, pushed back from the front in and forwards from the back end.


The ego on the other hand has the forwards and backwards controlled in its own chamber with the forwards and backwards motion propelled by a single Oring on the back of the ram.


The ego is the most similar to the impulse(which was also introduced in 2000) except it has a significantly lighter ram which indicates it relies entirely on the air pressure from the LPR to open the valve instead of the inertia created by a heavier ram.


The ego's firing cycling speed is much faster and more forceful than the intimidator. The ego's cycle is slightly more efficient by design(however, as Bob has shown us, it is entirely possible to make the timmy design very efficient), however the intimidator's slower cycle speed makes it a slightly smoother shoot.

With the work both companies have put into their gun to improve them I can't honestly say one is better than the other. Both have overcome the weakness of their design to such an extent that performance wise they are pretty much equal and blindfolded I doubt you could tell the difference between the two.

haha served
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:02 PM #29
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Hmmmm after 23 years of paintball I'm going to list all the original gun platforms I can think of.

Pump(mostly nelson/sheridan clones), stacked tube poppet, inline poppet, blow forward, spool and trap door. That's all I can come up with at the moment. One could argue that even some of these are merely plays on another design(inline poppet and stacked tube poppet for example). The point is.....there is very little originality in paintball. Over the years some companies have modified, adapted and improved the quality of many designs but that's about it.

Companies come and go. Fierce competition, a poorer middle class, dwindling numbers due to industry marketing mistakes have all taken their toll. The game still lives though.

On a positive note......most of what's left on the market is actually pretty darn good value for the money. Not all but most. What's even better for new players is that it's a buyers market for older fully functional and still competitive gear. Buy some and have fun.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:43 PM #30
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Originally Posted by MstrKey View Post
Hmmmm after 23 years of paintball I'm going to list all the original gun platforms I can think of.

Pump(mostly nelson/sheridan clones), stacked tube poppet, inline poppet, blow forward, spool and trap door. That's all I can come up with at the moment. One could argue that even some of these are merely plays on another design(inline poppet and stacked tube poppet for example). The point is.....there is very little originality in paintball. Over the years some companies have modified, adapted and improved the quality of many designs but that's about it.

Companies come and go. Fierce competition, a poorer middle class, dwindling numbers due to industry marketing mistakes have all taken their toll. The game still lives though.

On a positive note......most of what's left on the market is actually pretty darn good value for the money. Not all but most. What's even better for new players is that it's a buyers market for older fully functional and still competitive gear. Buy some and have fun.
It's most about which company can do the most with what they are given.

The corvette and the fiesta both use the same type of engine, however one gets 430hp but only 15mpg while the other gets only 120hp but gets 40mpg. It is possible to take one design and do entirely different things with it. I think that is what we are going to see from now on. The same designs worked in new and interesting ways.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:31 PM #31
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It's most about which company can do the most with what they are given.

The corvette and the fiesta both use the same type of engine, however one gets 430hp but only 15mpg while the other gets only 120hp but gets 40mpg. It is possible to take one design and do entirely different things with it. I think that is what we are going to see from now on. The same designs worked in new and interesting ways.
I don't see where the engine comparison makes any sense. The ford fiesta engine compares to the corvette engine in the same sense a nelspot 007 compares to a Luxe.....by this I mean they both are internal combustion engines that run on gasoline as both guns shoot paintballs using compressed gas. That's about it.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:40 PM #32
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I don't see where the engine comparison makes any sense. The ford fiesta engine compares to the corvette engine in the same sense a nelspot 007 compares to a Luxe.....by this I mean they both are internal combustion engines that run on gasoline as both guns shoot paintballs using compressed gas. That's about it.
Maybe the analogy was a bit weak, but I don't think a design needs to be radically different to be an improvement.

And the competition between companies should be encouraged, because that is how you get progress; when you have two companies trying to one up each other we as the consumers benefit.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:22 PM #33
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I'm actually really impressed more so with the low end market than the high end to be honest. There are a lot of really cheap and really good guns on the market right now. I wouldn't have an issue playing a tournament with most of them. I've played with worse!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:36 AM #34
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Economy and times have changed....let's all work to grow the sport again and a good community like this one (always room to improve) is a good place to start so be good to eachother! Lol
Indeed!!! Grow the sport!!! Support each other in this sport we all love...
It does not matter if you are new or an old timer the sport needs to grow again rather than shrink

I know that everyone wants or likes to be right when the speak from the top of their soap box but from my experience plus knowing the basic premise that everything is relative.

Egos are good markers. Depends on the user...
Geos are good markers. depends on the user...
Spyders are actually good markers. depends on the user...
Autocockers are good markers. depends on the user...
Tipmpmanns are good markers. depends on the user...


Most of the markers out there are good. depends on the user.
In fact Most of the Gear out there is good. It depends on the user...

I have seen it plenty of times over the years. It is and always will be the player not the marker.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:16 PM #35
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:16 PM #36
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I too have had the paintball bug bite once again....I guess once it's in you it never really leaves...

I see Dye is still around - and it's actually them that made me want to come back...I was drooling on their new DAM that was being shown off to me.

I also see Empire has grown by leaps and bounds....I guess Kee now owns much of the pb world.

My beloved Smart Parts is gone - am I the only one that liked them? WDP - or Angel people are gone....did they just quit or what?

But what about these brands?
Air America, Nitro Duck, KAPP, Evil, WGP (autocockers), Brass Eagle, Raven, Indian Creek Designs, 32 Degrees.

What about Air Gun Designs and the company that makes (or made) the Micromag?

Also who made those grips (I think the name was Hybrid??) but I remember a grip that looked like Al Pachino from Scarface.

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:14 PM #37
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I too have had the paintball bug bite once again....I guess once it's in you it never really leaves...
This is what I am going through right now, Took a couple year break now Im ready to buy a whole set of gear. Just trying to take the time to study all the new products.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:56 PM #38
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Spyder is dead or starting to die off .. reasons there guns are TRASH
Spyder is doing really well that is their magfed marker are seen to be amongst the top ranked for reliability. Their speedball markers are competitively designed.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:43 PM #39
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Angel was killed by A: not selling many guns and B: making an unusual mask that they somehow couldn't get approved for sale. Also some poor design decisions that led to a bunch of clothing type products not selling.

PE and Dye are still going strong. KEE owns just about everything but don't have a lot going on in terms of high end markers, an area which is dominated by PE and Dye. Bob Long seems to be doing well though. DP have just released the G5 which now has internal air. In terms of soft goods and masks companies like Sly seem to be doing well as well as countless custom jersey makers.

Virtue make a hopper now, it and the Rotor are the most popular. The Kee offering is good too but doesn't seem to have that big a following maybe due to looks and complexity. All are toolless.

Oh and magfed paintball is starting to take off. I guess that has something to do with paint costs and the whole milsim appeal since now Dye, Spyder, Tiberius, RAP4 and Milsig are all making magfed shizz along with smaller ones like Carmatech. RAP4 now sell magfed conversion kits for most BT/Tippmann electros. I'm waiting to see a few more magfeds with eyes come out before I jump in, hopefully BT or Tippmann have a go at some point.

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:31 PM #40
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In terms of soft goods and masks companies like Sly seem to be doing well as well as countless custom jersey makers.
Not to forget Valken owns sly
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:34 PM #41
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But what about these brands?
Air America, Nitro Duck, KAPP, Evil, WGP (autocockers), Brass Eagle, Raven, Indian Creek Designs, 32 Degrees.


Also who made those grips (I think the name was Hybrid??) but I remember a grip that looked like Al Pachino from Scarface.
Most patents owned by KEE and are used in the Empire Sniper Pump
Also owned by KEE
Contract Killer?
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:54 PM #42
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Thanks, as I said it's been about 6 years since I last played and the new "must have" gun was the Ego.

I guess being an old schooler is the high ends when I started are now affordable since you can get them used....except SFL Emags - those seem to skyrocket
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