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Old 01-27-2013, 08:01 PM #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Pro View Post
I hope you all know yuik is the biggest troll on here... that won't ever get perma banned. Take anything he says on here with the tinniest grain of salt you can find.
I mean you can throw as many insults or attempts to troll at me as you want . Yet you make no statements on how anything I said was
Wrong .

Why do we "need" Exclusive contracts ? How does this help our sport grow ?
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:23 PM #569
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Originally Posted by yuik View Post
I mean you can throw as many insults or attempts to troll at me as you want . Yet you make no statements on how anything I said was
Wrong .

Why do we "need" Exclusive contracts ? How does this help our sport grow ?
This has literally been covered at least a dozen times in this thread alone. If you can't find one explanation in this thread that makes enough sense to you, there is no hope of finding one.

Even eforce's response to last year's Valken drama is a great explanation and holds true despite the number of months ago that it was written.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:15 PM #570
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Originally Posted by yuik View Post
Far from the truth Chris . You don't think any players play on two different teams at
The same time ? It's not like
These "sponsorships" are tossing guys thousands of dollars where they would actually care if they follow the terms of the sponsorship or not .
He's talking about a majority there bro.

Take for example, a standard team with a paint sponsor from GI (Even just a partial one). Now why would they choose to go play (Short of being quite fairly well off financially) in another league where their sponsorship DOES NOT follow them? Now not only do they have entry fees (So no change there), but now they have to supply, fully O.O.P, their paint?

I fail to see why (or how for that matter), unless you have a millionaire owner/coach/rich kiddie on the team, that you would willingly go play multiple leagues and pay that much more than stick with a guaranteed one.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:56 PM #571
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I think the PSP needs to jump off its high horse.
Why should they? They have a superior product - Their webcast and events are better and more well-run than their competitors. Their business is run more professionally (case in point: PSP execs don't have 3-year old meltdowns on Facebook and ban media from their events), the fact they're capitalizing on favourable conditions in the marketplace means they're more savvy.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:00 PM #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuik View Post
I mean you can throw as many insults or attempts to troll at me as you want . Yet you make no statements on how anything I said was
Wrong .

Why do we "need" Exclusive contracts ? How does this help our sport grow ?
I'm just saying you purposely push peoples buttons. Lol. I'm not saying it as an insult.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:24 PM #573
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Also I know I am in a much smaller minority that prefers playing 7 man , I was fortunate enough to have a field that had a nppl field since way back . But even if you prefer 5 man having only
One league hurts you because there is less competition to Deliver a superior product or service .

Quote:
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He's talking about a majority there bro.

Take for example, a standard team with a paint sponsor from GI (Even just a partial one). Now why would they choose to go play (Short of being quite fairly well off financially) in another league where their sponsorship DOES NOT follow them? Now not only do they have entry fees (So no change there), but now they have to supply, fully O.O.P, their paint?

I fail to see why (or how for that matter), unless you have a millionaire owner/coach/rich kiddie on the team, that you would willingly go play multiple leagues and pay that much more than stick with a guaranteed one.
Some people really love to play man . I know people who played in 4 leagues Ncpa a regional xball league and would guest for any nppl or PSP team that was within 16 hours driving . It's not the majority but it's some
People
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:48 PM #574
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Originally Posted by yuik View Post

Some people really love to play man . I know people who played in 4 leagues Ncpa a regional xball league and would guest for any nppl or PSP team that was within 16 hours driving . It's not the majority but it's some
People
And there's your answer. I agree completely with you that there are people that do it. Hell, if i could afford it (both money AND time) I would try and do the same thing. But for most people, basically 90-95% of the income that these leagues bring in, is NOT from people who can afford to play in 4 leagues at once. If you're the average Joe Schmoe who's good enough to be playing upper level tournaments, even some of them are hard pressed to be able to afford to make it to every tournament (after factoring in EVERYTHING, from flight/driving to hotel to entry fees, gear if anything goes down, etc.)
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:13 AM #575
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One league hurts you because there is less competition to Deliver a superior product or service .
Totally wrong conclusion -

Just take a look at other professional sports including football and basketball. Once the leagues merged the resources, sponsorship money, advertising revenue, etc swelled and provided the foundation for a much better product.

Even at that - there really is no competition between the leagues. NPPL is not dying it is dead. Surely a national tourney comes to town people will play it regardless of the format but the proof is with the field owners. What percent of speedball fields in this country are NPPL 7 man fields?
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:41 AM #576
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You cant compare the merger of football and basketball leagues to paintball because the NPPL and PSP are entirely different formats and in essence different games. Thats like saying "yeah we should merge the professional arena football league and the NFL, it will work out great". And as for what kind of speedball fields are up i know for a fact that most fields set the field up according to what tourney is coming up, if its an NPPL event coming up youll see a 7 man field and if a PSP event is coming up youll see a 5 man field, that attitude in itself is why people claim the NPPL is "dead" but in reality it is still very much a part of paintball and just like in 06-08 greed will be the sports downfall in the end.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:01 AM #577
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Originally Posted by JonnyFB View Post
You cant compare the merger of football and basketball leagues to paintball because the NPPL and PSP are entirely different formats and in essence different games. Thats like saying "yeah we should merge the professional arena football league and the NFL, it will work out great". And as for what kind of speedball fields are up i know for a fact that most fields set the field up according to what tourney is coming up, if its an NPPL event coming up youll see a 7 man field and if a PSP event is coming up youll see a 5 man field, that attitude in itself is why people claim the NPPL is "dead" but in reality it is still very much a part of paintball and just like in 06-08 greed will be the sports downfall in the end.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:16 AM #578
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Originally Posted by YohY View Post
Totally wrong conclusion -

Just take a look at other professional sports including football and basketball. Once the leagues merged the resources, sponsorship money, advertising revenue, etc swelled and provided the foundation for a much better product.

Even at that - there really is no competition between the leagues. NPPL is not dying it is dead. Surely a national tourney comes to town people will play it regardless of the format but the proof is with the field owners. What percent of speedball fields in this country are NPPL 7 man fields?
Agree. 80% of fields I've been to across the US have had a PSP field rather than a NPPL field. Plus, one league with possibly double the teams in it than before sounds legit to me.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:37 PM #579
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If they are already bedfellows though, what keeps them from price fixing as a whole?
Take a look at what just happened in EBooks. Apple gets publisher to leave Amazon, promising they can charge more under them and then all the companies wind up in court for price fixing and are now settling because they got caught.
Not a definitive here and that's a larger scale thing but I'm pretty sure other companies have gotten in trouble for this type of behavior. Not really extortion but maybe strong arming.
Microsoft (prolly another way too big of an example) got hit with antitrust for telling vendors, if you carry this brand, we charge you more. This seems to be the flipside of that as the PSP holds the cards in this game.
Not really sure what to think as I am new to paintball but as seen recently in and even in PBs past, there has been definitely some shenanigans and just because you support PSP (I like the format too) doesn't mean it's right.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:53 PM #580
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If they are already bedfellows though, what keeps them from price fixing as a whole?
Take a look at what just happened in EBooks. Apple gets publisher to leave Amazon, promising they can charge more under them and then all the companies wind up in court for price fixing and are now settling because they got caught.
Not a definitive here and that's a larger scale thing but I'm pretty sure other companies have gotten in trouble for this type of behavior. Not really extortion but maybe strong arming.
Microsoft (prolly another way too big of an example) got hit with antitrust for telling vendors, if you carry this brand, we charge you more. This seems to be the flipside of that as the PSP holds the cards in this game.
Not really sure what to think as I am new to paintball but as seen recently in and even in PBs past, there has been definitely some shenanigans and just because you support PSP (I like the format too) doesn't mean it's right.

This has been talked about numerous times in this thread... The realists claim there will be nothing to keep the PSP from raising prices since there will be no other national leagues to complete with.

The PSP fanboys and people who don't know how a competitive economy works think the prices will go down when there is no competition keeping pricing where it's currently at.



Although all that aside, we will not know the PSP's true intentions until it happens.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:00 PM #581
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I think we should all just give it a rest and let this thread die
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:03 PM #582
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anddddddddd who cares.
My thoughts
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:40 PM #583
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My thoughts
The way I understand, everyone that plays should. From what I understand, paintball lost a lot of choices in markers with the last big shake up. Not saying this is that huge, but less competition stifles competition and innovation. And the consumers and players lose out in the end. I would love to see what some of the others would be putting out today had they still been around.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:37 AM #584
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The way I understand, everyone that plays should. From what I understand, paintball lost a lot of choices in markers with the last big shake up. Not saying this is that huge, but less competition stifles competition and innovation. And the consumers and players lose out in the end. I would love to see what some of the others would be putting out today had they still been around.
There still seem to be plenty of markers for people to choose from but with all the focus on big sponsors and their high ends, it's easy to overlook them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:11 AM #585
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This has been talked about numerous times in this thread... The realists claim there will be nothing to keep the PSP from raising prices since there will be no other national leagues to complete with.

The PSP fanboys and people who don't know how a competitive economy works think the prices will go down when there is no competition keeping pricing where it's currently at.



Although all that aside, we will not know the PSP's true intentions until it happens.
You are the one that does not understand how a competitive economy works and at that it surely does not apply to this situation. First PSP does not compete with the NPPL any longer. That ended sometime ago and the NPPL is bleeding the industry by holding on. Take a survey of the number of field owners that have NPPL fields and you will understand that the NPPL is dead.

Second PSP pricing has nothing to do with NPPL and everything to do with the market. Participants of any sport have "X" number of dollars to spend. They must feel they are getting a value for the money they spend. Once the price exceeds the value people stop attending. This will happen regardless whether there is an NPPL or not.

Not a "fanboy" of PSP and in fact strongly perfer formats without coaching but the facts are hard to ignore. There are virtually no NPPL fields left. Hard to support a national circuit when the field they use is virtually extinct.

If NPPL had any hope to survive they would adapt PSP fields and bunkers so players could go to any field and play the format they prefer. Even at that it most likely is too late. It is best for the sport if NPPL goes away.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:44 AM #586
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We got a call yesterday from someone at PSP.
They said if you Dump NPPL we will let you in the PSP
and you have to pay 10k more then other paint sponsors.
Extortion?? Wow! Glad I have it recorded.
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How does anyone take these people seriously? A bunch of illiterate children stomping their feet.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:28 PM #587
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You are the one that does not understand how a competitive economy works and at that it surely does not apply to this situation. First PSP does not compete with the NPPL any longer. That ended sometime ago and the NPPL is bleeding the industry by holding on. Take a survey of the number of field owners that have NPPL fields and you will understand that the NPPL is dead.

Second PSP pricing has nothing to do with NPPL and everything to do with the market. Participants of any sport have "X" number of dollars to spend. They must feel they are getting a value for the money they spend. Once the price exceeds the value people stop attending. This will happen regardless whether there is an NPPL or not.

Not a "fanboy" of PSP and in fact strongly perfer formats without coaching but the facts are hard to ignore. There are virtually no NPPL fields left. Hard to support a national circuit when the field they use is virtually extinct.

If NPPL had any hope to survive they would adapt PSP fields and bunkers so players could go to any field and play the format they prefer. Even at that it most likely is too late. It is best for the sport if NPPL goes away.
Both fields closest to me have NPPL layouts up. The field for one local tournament series (a couple hours from me) uses NPPL layouts. Although another 2 fields near me use PSP layouts.

I personally prefer the NPPL race to format. Can't stand that sideline coaching! haha... I think I would play PSP if they just got rid of that 1 damn rule.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:02 PM #588
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Both fields closest to me have NPPL layouts up. The field for one local tournament series (a couple hours from me) uses NPPL layouts. Although another 2 fields near me use PSP layouts.

I personally prefer the NPPL race to format. Can't stand that sideline coaching! haha... I think I would play PSP if they just got rid of that 1 damn rule.
I feel like the NPPL format has always been catered towards the west coast anyway. And most fields in the MW, East Coast, and South tend to either only have PSP or leave PSP up for most of the year except for those few weekends when there are teams looking to practice for NPPL.
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