Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-30-2013, 12:38 PM #295
spracks21
Zap Rowsdower
 
spracks21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lincoln, NE
spracks21 plays in the PSP
spracks21 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
spracks21 supports Team VICIOUS
spracks21 plays in the APPA D3 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
I wouldn't argue that. There certainly is no guarantee that a child will turn out mentally retarded or with other debilitating defects and diseases.

Parts of a body is part of it and I don't just mean for the human aspect of civilization but for the good of all things contained therein.

Good means something vastly different than preservation.
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.
__________________
Aimless Factory
#21
spracks21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 12:47 PM #296
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
So? If people want to be happy, they have every right to do so. Call it selfish or egotistical all you want. I don't, however, believe it to be cowardice. It can be, sure, but it's not always.
Answered at the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
I see no point in living if you aren't actually living. There's things I want to do with my life. Having a child would stop me from doing some of them. How dare I want to do these things!
The sin of Odysseus was vanity.

What is the point of accomplishment if it serves only for the pleasure of pleasure itself? Do you wish to live a life only for feelings themselves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
I'm interested in knowing what this supposed deficiency is.
Vanity. Selfishness. Narcissism. Greed. All deficient behavior comes from valuing feelings above all else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Happiness is the byproduct of living a joyful and prideful life. What's wrong with that?
Placing far too much emphasis on yourself. I I I!! Me!! Inward thinking is bad. Outward thinking is good.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 01:49 PM #297
sucka T.
 
 
sucka T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: GA
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladd_17 View Post
What you actually support is irrelevant. I'm trying to point out to you the flaw in your logic. Let's try again, shall we? This time, we'll put the shoe on the other foot....



Why do you expect the man to be held completely accountable for the creation of a child? The woman could have just as easily prevented the pregnancy.

Your logic is terribly inconsistent. If you're going to insist that abortion is an acceptable thing for women to do regardless of the wishes of the father, then it should be acceptable for men to refuse to pay child support on a child that he didn't want and the mother chose to keep.
I see your point, and you make a good argument.
__________________
1st Annual ST Friendship BBQ

ThreadSavers®

http://www.ohnoes.org/

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=891102
sucka T. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 01:58 PM #298
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
The sin of Odysseus was vanity.

What is the point of accomplishment if it serves only for the pleasure of pleasure itself? Do you wish to live a life only for feelings themselves?
What accomplishment should one be striving for? Our feelings are what tells us right from wrong, good from bad; it is our only perception of acknowledging events. How can one help others by not making them feel better?

Quote:
Vanity. Selfishness. Narcissism. Greed. All deficient behavior comes from valuing feelings above all else.
What if one values the sense of pride that comes from helping others above all else? I understand you're not explicitly saying valuing feelings above all else always leads to deficient behavior with that statement, but it sounds like it's what you're getting at.

Quote:
Placing far too much emphasis on yourself. I I I!! Me!! Inward thinking is bad. Outward thinking is good.
This is why I mentioned being prideful. But both happiness and pride can come from outward thinking and influence. Does anyone ever actually help others when it only makes them feel worse in every aspect of their life? I don't believe such a thing has ever occurred in human history, nor do I believe it to be possible. A sense of pride comes from outward thinking.

Also, to stay in context with the thread's intentions, do you not consider it possible for would-be parents to be able to provide a much better life for a child further down the road, with better finances, a better living situation, and more access to better care for the child if they simply waited before having a child?

Say there's a starving college student who can barely afford to do anything, even while living in his parent's low-income household. This student is fortunately quite bright and has performed well in high school. His girlfriend gets pregnant. Should he stop funding his education to support that child when he could graduate, find a decent-level position and have a much more modest income to expend on a future child? I would consider that decision selfless, not selfish. It's a better life for a child, the man, and the woman to live in. Three people win while over one losing. I'd call that the better option.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:10 PM #299
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
What accomplishment should one be striving for? Our feelings are what tells us right from wrong, good from bad; it is our only perception of acknowledging events. How can one help others by not making them feel better?



What if one values the sense of pride that comes from helping others above all else? I understand you're not explicitly saying valuing feelings above all else always leads to deficient behavior with that statement, but it sounds like it's what you're getting at.



This is why I mentioned being prideful. But both happiness and pride can come from outward thinking and influence. Does anyone ever actually help others when it only makes them feel worse in every aspect of their life? I don't believe such a thing has ever occurred in human history, nor do I believe it to be possible. A sense of pride comes from outward thinking.

Also, to stay in context with the thread's intentions, do you not consider it possible for would-be parents to be able to provide a much better life for a child further down the road, with better finances, a better living situation, and more access to better care for the child if they simply waited before having a child?

Say there's a starving college student who can barely afford to do anything, even while living in his parent's low-income household. This student is fortunately quite bright and has performed well in high school. His girlfriend gets pregnant. Should he stop funding his education to support that child when he could graduate, find a decent-level position and have a much more modest income to expend on a future child? I would consider that decision selfless, not selfish. It's a better life for a child, the man, and the woman to live in. Three people win while over one losing. I'd call that the better option.
Moving to R/P
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:39 PM #300
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Moving to R/P
FINE
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 10:32 AM #301
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
Nah, kids are cheap. They like playing with garbage like cardboard boxes for Pete's sake. Teenagers can be expensive. When they become legal adults, charge them for room and board, and any additional insurance fees if they don't feel independent enough to get their own.

I've got this <del>****</del> all planned out.
Quote:
The cost of raising a child from birth to age 18 for a middle-income, two-parent family averaged $226,920 last year (not including college), according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. That's up nearly 40% -- or more than $60,000 -- from 10 years ago. Just one year of spending on a child can cost up to $13,830 in 2010, compared to $9,860 a decade ago
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/pf/c...hild/index.htm

Quote:
If you don't have health insurance, you should know that the average cost of prenatal care is about $2,000, if you're paying out of pocket.

The costs of childbirth can be steep. The charge for an uncomplicated cesarean section was about $15,800 in 2008, while an uncomplicated vaginal birth cost about $9,600, government data show.
http://www.webmd.com/baby/features/c...-a-baby?page=3

I would hardly call that cheap. I sure as hell don't have $13k extra a year to spend and that doesn't even include the hospital visit and the pregnancy.
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 11:44 AM #302
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
$12606.66 a year, $400 goes a long way if you are smart about it.

I do have that much to throw around, I'm not worried. I'll cut out fast food.
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 11:48 AM #303
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
If your child is costing you a grand a month or more, you are doing something horribly wrong. I can buy 3 weeks of produce alone for 30 bucks at a farmers market.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 11:52 AM #304
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
But people need disposable diapers, and formula, and baby Jordans, and brand new baby clothes, and etc etc etc
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 12:14 PM #305
Murph1329
 
 
Murph1329's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hoover, AL
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
But people need disposable diapers, and formula, and baby Jordans, and brand new baby clothes, and etc etc etc
being poor in america is a rough life
__________________
'98 STO
10/14'' Dye Stainless | AKALMP tornado valve
Evolution bolt | Evolution Roller Sear
ANS Jackhammer | Rex Kit
STO RAM | Air America Black Ice | Shocktech LPC
pic
Forum defeat is admitted when one resorts to grammatical insults -me
We all live with a mark of sin, no man's is greater than another's in his own mind. -me
Murph1329 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 12:16 PM #306
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
But people need disposable diapers, and formula, and baby Jordans, and brand new baby clothes, and etc etc etc
God forbid someone might breast feed, mash their own peas.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 12:23 PM #307
scienceguy
 
 
scienceguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
The stuff isn't expensive. Tell someone you're having a baby and stuff comes out of the woodwork. I bought one of our carseats for $20 at a yard sale. The best food comes for free out of mom.

The real expense comes from buying time. Infant daycare is about 1800 where we go and that's the ghetto one. the one across from my work is $2400 a month. One of my coworkers has twins there... I don't know how they do it. Add Afterschool programs for our other kids that's around 2400 total a month. Multiply by 12.

Take daycare out and kids are pretty cheep for the first few years if they're healthy. Clothes are very cheap and people usually give you their hand-me-downs. Diapers are around the cost of a movie with popcorn for 2. You don't do that once the baby shows up. There are lots of other tricks to keep costs down. It's the time that's expensive.

As they get older food costs go up and they have all the team sports that cost money. Then factor in the trips to Disney that you'd never do if they weren't begging to go. You can play the tough card and say you'd never do anything like that, but they have more power over you than you'll admit.

It's expensive, but it's life. What's the point if you aren't enjoying the ride?
scienceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 12:26 PM #308
Murph1329
 
 
Murph1329's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hoover, AL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
God forbid someone might breast feed, mash their own peas.
instead they fill them up with food that is over processed and full of preservatives. Then they wonder why they turn out fat.

You're right...
this could easily be fixed if everyone mashed their own god damn peas
__________________
'98 STO
10/14'' Dye Stainless | AKALMP tornado valve
Evolution bolt | Evolution Roller Sear
ANS Jackhammer | Rex Kit
STO RAM | Air America Black Ice | Shocktech LPC
pic
Forum defeat is admitted when one resorts to grammatical insults -me
We all live with a mark of sin, no man's is greater than another's in his own mind. -me
Murph1329 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump