[sstiggy]

So true

[facemower1211]

people seem to forget that the only reason psp survived is because dye and smart parts put a bunch of sponsor money out and kept them floating. Psp doesnt make as much money as alot of people in here seem to believe.

[jamest91]

Originally Posted by facemower1211

people seem to forget that the only reason psp survived is because dye and smart parts put a bunch of sponsor money out and kept them floating. Psp doesnt make as much money as alot of people in here seem to believe.

they will if nppl goes away and their prices go up. that is a fact, but the majority doesn't care about that part of the equation as they mostly all ride the PSP bandwagon.

[Shortbuscrew]

One company falls, another takes its place. I will not shed a tear if any league goes down, because in months time another will pop up.

[jamest91]

Originally Posted by Shortbuscrew

One company falls, another takes its place. I will not shed a tear if any league goes down, because in months time another will pop up.

ya id be curious to see what would happen. i would assume another 7man league would pop up, but you never know.

you would think the 2013 season NPPL and PSP would both look back at their mistakes and fix up there leagues where it is most needed, but that never seems to be the case with most businesses.

If a brand new league did form it would take a while to gain the players' trust and business, thats for sure.

[p-baller100]

Oh well that's nice. Guess it's an attempt by the psp to make more money and they believe it would be in Valkens best interest because the psp is doing better.

[**GP**]

I think it is cool that so many people in here are able to see the books for the PSP. Its cool that Lane shows all of you the P&L reports.

[eforce]

Originally Posted by Kazer

Call me crazy, but if the industry wanted to damage Valken and the NPPL I would want to stretch them as thin as possible by letting them sell at PSP events where they well know Valken wouldn't be able to get a return on the investment. Extra costs and logistics, possibly hurts quality control, haste makes waste ect. By being hostile you are just motivating them to continue being a thorn in your side instead of being welcomed over to the league.
The NPPL is already on borrowed time, I don't understand the lack of patience by others when they already hold all the cards. I wish that wasn't the case as I personally only enjoy the 7 man format, but that is not the reality. The reality is that after last season and all the sponsors pulling out that the NPPL is no longer a business model that can survive without drastic changes.

Again... Valken was offered the opportunity to sell at PSP events. They declined. The PSP wasn't hostile - it simply asked for an exclusive agreement as it should. This goes back to my Eclipse/Bob Long example. If you're signing a sponsorship deal, you can't expect to sign with competing companies, and you certainly can't expect to get the same pricing if you tell one you're going to the other, then come back later. It is completely reasonable for the PSP to require exclusive distribution and it is completely reasonable not to accept anything short of that.

Originally Posted by bulzeye

why would valken drown if the nppl goes under?

After the NPPL dies, Valken's only bargaining chip (finishing off the NPPL) has been removed from the equation. The PSP then has no immediate motivation to sign them into the league unless it needs the vendor fee. Valken's paint program could end up stranded on the national level. I'm not saying that Valken as a company will die. That's obviously not true. However, it will go from having a 100% share of paint sales at NPPL events to a 0% share of paint sales at any national speedball events. You know what else that means? They'll be hard pressed to sell their paint or gear to sponsored teams that play in the PSP, because those teams know that they're ****ed on paint if they sign with Valken.

Originally Posted by bulzeye

It has nothing to do with forming one sustainable league and everything having to do with Ego's and $ and that is the way DYE and KEE have always operated (not that any of that is a bad thing)

Saying the NPPL or Valken hurts the pride of KEE and Dye is like saying your automatic V6 mustang hurts the pride of your neighbor who owns a ferrari. If either company felt the NPPL was a worthwhile investment they would have moved for a presence in both leagues, plain and simple.

[jamest91]

Originally Posted by p-baller100

Oh well that's nice. Guess it's an attempt by the psp to make more money and they believe it would be in Valkens best interest because the psp is doing better.

its more like this....

PSP: "Hey Valken, look. You and I both know NPPL is going to be going under eventually. I am willing to let you guys continue to support the tournament scene with paint. Just give us an extra $10,000 and you can sell your paint here too, even after NPPL goes under."

Valken: "That is absurd. We are not going to pay that much while your other paint sponsors pay so much less."

PSP: "Fine! You aren't allowed to sell at our events, ever. Good luck once NPPL goes away."

[eforce]

Originally Posted by jamest91

its more like this....

PSP: "Hey Valken, look. You and I both know NPPL is going to be going under eventually. I am willing to let you guys continue to support the tournament scene with paint. Just give us an extra $10,000 and you can sell your paint here too, even after NPPL goes under."

Valken: "That is absurd. We are not going to pay that much while your other paint sponsors pay so much less."

PSP: "Fine! You aren't allowed to sell at our events, ever. Good luck once NPPL goes away."

You forgot this part at the beginning:
NPPL/Valken: PSP paint vendors are not allowed to sell at our events.

http://68caliber.com/2013/01/15/nppl...fficial-paint/

[randy woodland]

It's not that they r not allowed to sell at NPPL events, but more that they don't want to. If Kee or GI want to sell paint they r more than welcome to do so and the only reason it says that Valken is exclusive is that they r the only ones stepping up to sell paint.

[bulzeye]

Originally Posted by eforce

After the NPPL dies, Valken's only bargaining chip (finishing off the NPPL) has been removed from the equation. The PSP then has no immediate motivation to sign them into the league unless it needs the vendor fee. Valken's paint program could end up stranded on the national level. I'm not saying that Valken as a company will die. That's obviously not true. However, it will go from having a 100% share of paint sales at NPPL events to a 0% share of paint sales at any national speedball events. You know what else that means? They'll be hard pressed to sell their paint or gear to sponsored teams that play in the PSP, because those teams know that they're ****ed on paint if they sign with Valken.

you actually think there is a lot of money to be made by selling paint at these events? the only thing that will hurt valken is them not being allowed to be there and support there teams with a presence, but it won't put them under as a company. Gino already posted on facebook that he would find a way to support his teams whether it be entry and travel accomodations or something else.

But the money is in rec play for these companies, that's why KEE bought the BT brand and was aggressive in setting it up. That's why the Gardner's and Richmond started up GI milsim and that's why Valken has been aggressive with their VTAC brand.

Originally Posted by eforce

You forgot this part at the beginning:
NPPL/Valken: PSP paint vendors are not allowed to sell at our events.

http://68caliber.com/2013/01/15/nppl...fficial-paint/

I think that has more to do with NPPL looking for a single brand just like the NFL does more than Valken saying if we sell our paint we want to be the only ones at the event selling it.

[sstiggy]

Valken probably makes more off scenario events than it could ever dream of in PSP and NPPL combined

[jamest91]

Originally Posted by eforce

You forgot this part at the beginning:
NPPL/Valken: PSP paint vendors are not allowed to sell at our events.

http://68caliber.com/2013/01/15/nppl...fficial-paint/

Being an official paint sponsor is not the same as the scenario I was illustrating.

[Barney]

I couldn't read all 23 pages of this but Kee and GI have pumped a lot of money into the PSP over years. How would they react if PSP let in their major competitor for free? Why would PSP offer them this opportunity to Valken while they continued to support their competitor? Try and use a little common sense.
Barn

[jamest91]

Originally Posted by Barney

I couldn't read all 23 pages of this but Kee and GI have pumped a lot of money into the PSP over years. How would they react if PSP let in their major competitor for free? Why would PSP offer them this opportunity to Valken while they continued to support their competitor? Try and use a little common sense.
Barn

Uhhh... They aren't letting anyone in for free. They would be letting fallen in for $10,000 more than the other companies paid.

[SNAKESNIPER (Banned)]

Originally Posted by jamest91

one sustainable league = no competition = significant price increases

unless of course if in the event that nppl dies, a commission is created to help regulate the gouging of player's checkbooks in the tournament scene.

Oh please. This chestnut again?

Dye still competes with every other manufacturer. So does Kee. So does DLX etc etc etc.... This keeps prices down. If only one league exists, more teams play in it = more $$$ in registration and fees = more $$$ for the league = prices stay the same.

[raehl]

Originally Posted by jamest91

they will if nppl goes away and their prices go up. that is a fact

Actually, it's not a fact at all - if there was one league, entry fees would likely go down, because there would be more teams over which to spread the extremely high fixed costs of running a tournament series.

The goal is to increase participation, without going broke in the process. That means trying to get the entry fees as low as possible, not higher. More participation, more value to sponsors.

- Chris

[jjrstr8killa]

Man speaks the truth ^^

[sstiggy]

Originally Posted by SNAKESNIPER

Oh please. This chestnut again?

Dye still competes with every other manufacturer. So does Kee. So does DLX etc etc etc.... This keeps prices down. If only one league exists, more teams play in it = more $$$ in registration and fees = more $$$ for the league = prices stay the same.

I'll believe that when I see it

[randy woodland]

Well lets just hope that a real league starts up where all the events are hosted at real paintball fields and we get back to supporting the sport the way it should be (used to be) !