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Old 01-22-2013, 11:10 AM #358
MisfitKillaz
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well that truck was at MAO too, but they werent selling paint, just helping valken sponsored teams. This thread has some interesting opinions in it but before we say Valken spat in the face of the industry and supported the NPPL we should remember it was really after the PSP closed their doors to Valken in the first place. So now year 3 rolls around and industry realizes their mistake and tries to let Valken in the PSP but it seems like instead of taking the high road and joining, they're retaliating in the way they feel is just. So when we look back and ask why dont we have one league, the answer isnt just valken. For the record I dont support valken and feel all this to be retarded. If the industry is so dead set on needing one league then make it happen.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:21 AM #359
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Rumor was last year(2012), Valken sent the check to PSP and they returned it back to valken and denied them paint sales. For everyone thinking this just started this year
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:03 PM #360
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Originally Posted by MisfitKillaz View Post
well that truck was at MAO too, but they werent selling paint, just helping valken sponsored teams. This thread has some interesting opinions in it but before we say Valken spat in the face of the industry and supported the NPPL we should remember it was really after the PSP closed their doors to Valken in the first place.
Up to this point you have an arguable point. It may not be true, but it's plausible. From here on, you're drawing incorrect conclusions from information available.
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So now year 3 rolls around and industry realizes their mistake and tries to let Valken in the PSP but it seems like instead of taking the high road and joining, they're retaliating in the way they feel is just. So when we look back and ask why dont we have one league, the answer isnt just valken. For the record I dont support valken and feel all this to be retarded. If the industry is so dead set on needing one league then make it happen.
The PSP offer required Valken to drop the NPPL. If this were a case of the industry excluding Valken and making a mistake, the PSP offer to recruit Valken would not involve an exclusive deal, nor a higher vendor fee than the other paint vendors. An apology does not include a monetary "**** you" or strict conditions. It's fairly obvious that this was not focused on patching up relations with Valken - it's about killing off the NPPL by removing their only manufacturer-direct paint source. All said and done, that's the only reason you would require them to deal exclusively to PSP. It's a smart business move on the part of the PSP and it offers Valken the opportunity to straighten out its relations with the rest of the industry.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:44 PM #361
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but no one said its about patching things up with valken. PSP realized that valken isnt just going to go away, they'll just keep dragging on the NPPL that the PSP wants gone, so with this offer they can finalize that. The mistake in the beginning was not working with valken which is what they are basically forced to do now. I beleive the conclusions we've both drawn from the information available are probably incorrect, but mine none more than yours my friend.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:52 PM #362
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but no one said its about patching things up with valken.
That's not what you said?
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Originally Posted by MisfitKillaz View Post
So now year 3 rolls around and industry realizes their mistake and tries to let Valken in the PSP but it seems like instead of taking the high road and joining, they're retaliating in the way they feel is just.
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PSP realized that valken isnt just going to go away, they'll just keep dragging on the NPPL that the PSP wants gone, so with this offer they can finalize that. The mistake in the beginning was not working with valken which is what they are basically forced to do now. I beleive the conclusions we've both drawn from the information available are probably incorrect, but mine none more than yours my friend.
You're still operating under the assumption that the NPPL has the players and resources to sustain itself indefinitely. Furthermore, you're also assuming that Valken had nothing to do with its being cast out from the PSP. It's a safe bet to state that:

1. The primary effect of this decision was to kill the NPPL.
2. The rehabilitation of Valken into the PSP is a bargaining chip and natural consequence of #1.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:55 PM #363
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That's not what you said?

You're still operating under the assumption that the NPPL has the players and resources to sustain itself indefinitely. Furthermore, you're also assuming that Valken had nothing to do with its being cast out from the PSP. It's a safe bet to state that:

1. The primary effect of this decision was to kill the NPPL.
2. The rehabilitation of Valken into the PSP is a bargaining chip and natural consequence of #1.
This... Gino has said that Valken was the only thing keeping NPPL alive
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:57 PM #364
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If valken wants to support the sport as a whole, and wants to spend the money to send paint trucks all over the place and pay the fees to both leagues I do not understand why they are being strong armed out of it.
If the argument becomes "but it will take away from GI/KEE profits!" I do not buy it as I firmly believe both GI and KEE put out a superior product.
I don't know any paintballer that would risk a lower finish in a national event by using a paint brand that isn't quite as good as the other options.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:02 PM #365
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If valken wants to support the sport as a whole, and wants to spend the money to send paint trucks all over the place and pay the fees to both leagues I do not understand why they are being strong armed out of it.
If the argument becomes "but it will take away from GI/KEE profits!" I do not buy it as I firmly believe both GI and KEE put out a superior product.
I don't know any paintballer that would risk a lower finish in a national event by using a paint brand that isn't quite as good as the other options.
The reality of the situation is that supporting the NPPL is not supporting the sport as a whole. It's supporting the NPPL despite the rest of the industry committing to the PSP so that our limited resources can be pooled into one sustainable league, rather than shared with a dying league. They are being pressured to leave the NPPL so the league will fold and we can make progress in developing the only stable national league in the country.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:04 PM #366
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Those are paint trucks FYI


they didnt sell paint at NJO. That is the merchandise truck. The only 2 that sold paint at New Jersey were the 2 regulars. KEE and DXS/GI.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:07 PM #367
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You're still operating under the assumption that the NPPL has the players and resources to sustain itself indefinitely. Furthermore, you're also assuming that Valken had nothing to do with its being cast out from the PSP.
Where are you getting this? Honestly. My assumptions are that valken is the only paint supplier willing to work with the NPPL, so if the PSP makes a deal where valken cant support them, then they dont have competition grade paint and hence cant continue. I can name many reasons why the PSP wouldnt work with them in the first place, but if you cant see they've changed their minds on that you're pretty dense.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:13 PM #368
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Where are you getting this? Honestly. My assumptions are that valken is the only paint supplier willing to work with the NPPL, so if the PSP makes a deal where valken cant support them, then they dont have competition grade paint and hence cant continue. I can name many reasons why the PSP wouldnt work with them in the first place, but if you cant see they've changed their minds on that you're pretty dense.
Read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
1. The primary effect of this decision was to kill the NPPL.
2. The rehabilitation of Valken into the PSP is a bargaining chip and natural consequence of #1.
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Originally Posted by eforce View Post
Who said that the phone call this whole thread is about did not include the possibility of equal pricing for all paint vendors in future seasons after this has blown over?
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:18 PM #369
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the funny thing is I've done nothing but agree with you except on the point about in the future the vendor cost being the same(on which ive made no comment) and why valken was not allowed in the PSP/supported the NPPL in the first place. Its been fun watching you fail to see this and honestly im shaking my head that you're a moderator. Carry on sir.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:37 PM #370
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the funny thing is I've done nothing but agree with you except on the point about in the future the vendor cost being the same(on which ive made no comment) and why valken was not allowed in the PSP/supported the NPPL in the first place. Its been fun watching you fail to see this and honestly im shaking my head that you're a moderator. Carry on sir.
That's not entirely accurate. You've suggested that:

1. Valken is not responsible for its exclusion in prior years.
2. The recent offer to Valken was rectification of a mistake.
3. The NPPL is a survivable league.

... none of which are statements I agree with, much less see as correct representations of what's going on here. It's painfully obvious that this move was not about apologizing to Valken. If anything, it's the opposite. Valken pays a one time fee on top of the normal price and then gets permission to sell at the PSP after the NPPL dies.

The PSP isn't scrambling to undo an industry decision. It's extending a life raft to Valken as it drowns with the NPPL.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:41 PM #371
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This is what i see the PSP doing to the NPPL.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:53 PM #372
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That's not entirely accurate. You've suggested that:

1. Valken is not responsible for its exclusion in prior years.
2. The recent offer to Valken was rectification of a mistake.
3. The NPPL is a survivable league.
geeeez.

"the funny thing is I've done nothing but agree with you except on the point about in the future the vendor cost being the same(on which ive made no comment) and why valken was not allowed in the PSP/supported the NPPL in the first place. Its been fun watching you fail to see this and honestly im shaking my head that you're a moderator. Carry on sir."

Thats point 1, like I said before about point 2 the mistake was not working with Valken in the first place because it obviously back fired on them and now they are keeping the NPPL alive. Its painfully obvious that you think the NPPL and Valken cant survive together which shows you have no concept of Valken's size and resources. Point 3 I cant even comment on I never said anything about that and its getting borderline stupid that you keep saying it. So as you can see my statement before is entirely correct and you've proven to be illiterate.

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Old 01-22-2013, 05:07 PM #373
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The NPPL will not survivie, regardless if Valken is involved or not. Mark my words, the NPPL will die again. It's just a matter of time.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:07 PM #374
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Call me crazy, but if the industry wanted to damage Valken and the NPPL I would want to stretch them as thin as possible by letting them sell at PSP events where they well know Valken wouldn't be able to get a return on the investment. Extra costs and logistics, possibly hurts quality control, haste makes waste ect. By being hostile you are just motivating them to continue being a thorn in your side instead of being welcomed over to the league.
The NPPL is already on borrowed time, I don't understand the lack of patience by others when they already hold all the cards. I wish that wasn't the case as I personally only enjoy the 7 man format, but that is not the reality. The reality is that after last season and all the sponsors pulling out that the NPPL is no longer a business model that can survive without drastic changes.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:13 PM #375
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the NPPL is no longer a business model that can survive without drastic changes.
I honestly think if they removed a certain hotheaded player from an important position *cough*Frank Connell*cough* that they'd see an improvement in PR and the added benefits.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:24 PM #376
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That's not entirely accurate. You've suggested that:

1. Valken is not responsible for its exclusion in prior years.
2. The recent offer to Valken was rectification of a mistake.
3. The NPPL is a survivable league.

... none of which are statements I agree with, much less see as correct representations of what's going on here. It's painfully obvious that this move was not about apologizing to Valken. If anything, it's the opposite. Valken pays a one time fee on top of the normal price and then gets permission to sell at the PSP after the NPPL dies.

The PSP isn't scrambling to undo an industry decision. It's extending a life raft to Valken as it drowns with the NPPL.
why would valken drown if the nppl goes under?
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:30 PM #377
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The reality of the situation is that supporting the NPPL is not supporting the sport as a whole. It's supporting the NPPL despite the rest of the industry committing to the PSP so that our limited resources can be pooled into one sustainable league, rather than shared with a dying league. They are being pressured to leave the NPPL so the league will fold and we can make progress in developing the only stable national league in the country.
It has nothing to do with forming one sustainable league and everything having to do with Ego's and $ and that is the way DYE and KEE have always operated (not that any of that is a bad thing)
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:46 PM #378
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one sustainable league = no competition = significant price increases

unless of course if in the event that nppl dies, a commission is created to help regulate the gouging of player's checkbooks in the tournament scene.
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