[drgonzo]

Enthusiasts have much more holistic views, as they have literally seen and used it all. These are fairly authoritative and reflect the current enthusiasts' understanding on the panoply of detailing products:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ers-waxes.html
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...shing-wax.html

The distinguishing feature of cleaner waxes is actually the cleaning chemicals. But as it says, there is no industry standard for these terms so you have to classify the product by what it does.

So ... just because turtle wax original is not called turtle wax cleaner wax, does not mean it is not a cleaner wax -- they just did not change the original name since the point of still having the product is to provide the same familiar thing. It likely contains light abrasives in it ("contains no harsh abrasives"). The actual product labeled "cleaner wax" may contain more abrasives or a different formulation of solvents which is possibly more effective, being a newer product.

Anyway, we have strayed. Car wax science is kind of incredible today. But it still doesn't really do anything helpful for barrels, and adding another maintenance procedure sucks.

I've yet to see any barrel ever really "shoot clean" though as a pump player my standard of what shooting-as-if-clean is may be higher than semi players. Actually as a pump player I rarely experience ball breaks at all.

I wonder if the prevalence of two-piece or step-bore barrels has some effect here. After all, the paint in the largebore section won't be cleaned nearly as well regardless of surface finish or treatment.

[Alighieri256]

Originally Posted by drgonzo

Enthusiasts have much more holistic views, as they have literally seen and used it all. These are fairly authoritative and reflect the current enthusiasts' understanding on the panoply of detailing products:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ers-waxes.html
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...shing-wax.html

The distinguishing feature of cleaner waxes is actually the cleaning chemicals. But as it says, there is no industry standard for these terms so you have to classify the product by what it does.

So ... just because turtle wax original is not called turtle wax cleaner wax, does not mean it is not a cleaner wax -- they just did not change the original name since the point of still having the product is to provide the same familiar thing. It likely contains light abrasives in it ("contains no harsh abrasives"). The actual product labeled "cleaner wax" may contain more abrasives or a different formulation of solvents which is possibly more effective, being a newer product.

Sorry, but forums should not be considered authoritative in any way. You can literally find someone on a forum confirming any idea anyone has ever had. For example.

The apocalypse has already happened:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...5&postcount=82

People regularly eat spiders in their sleep:
http://old.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php...551d94715d4c1f

Peeing on a stingray wound neutralizes the venom:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/arc...t-1148616.html

In any case, my post stated:

Originally Posted by Alighieri256

Try whatever you like, but don't use anything labeled as a "Cleaner Wax" or any other wax that contains abrasives.

As liquid Turtle Wax is not "labeled as a Cleaner Wax", this statement does not exclude it.

Originally Posted by drgonzo

I've yet to see any barrel ever really "shoot clean" though as a pump player my standard of what shooting-as-if-clean is may be higher than semi players. Actually as a pump player I rarely experience ball breaks at all.

I wonder if the prevalence of two-piece or step-bore barrels has some effect here. After all, the paint in the largebore section won't be cleaned nearly as well regardless of surface finish or treatment.

I would absolutely agree that a pump player would have more stringent criteria for what qualifies as a clean barrel. What I know is this: When I've had paint in my barrel, I've had trouble making less than an 8 foot grouping at 100 feet until I ran a squeegee through. After waxing, in the same circumstances, the gun was at least useable by the third shot.

I also agree with the thought that a stepped barrel would make a difference here. If the ball isn't relatively closely contacting the interior surface, it's not going to push the paint out.