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View Poll Results: Wiretapping - Unconstitutional?
Yes this law is unconstitutional, dangerous, and should be elimnated 18 94.74%
This law is unconstitutional, but justified because times have changed 1 5.26%
This law is not unconstitutional and Congress has a right to pass this law 0 0%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2013, 02:40 PM #22
Necropolis
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I am comfortable with warrant-less wiretapping as long as it is used strictly for security purposes, if they start using it to go after people for drugs and similar offenses then we have a problem.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:37 PM #23
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Trusting the government is for the irresponsible and the lazy.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:41 PM #24
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Everybody in this country trusts the government to some degree or another.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:43 PM #25
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Everybody in this country trusts the government to some degree or another.
Verify. Ensure. Don't trust.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:46 PM #26
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Trusting the government is for the irresponsible and the lazy.
It appears as if yesme isn't going to respond, so answer me this. How can democratic government exist without implicit trust? What is democratic representation other than giving a person the responsibility of ruling for all of us?

Note: As I have said from the beginning, by trust I am referring to the idea that giving someone the power to govern also gives them the power to destroy. A president cannot have the power of war without the power of self-destruction. That is not to say that the we should have unrelenting faith in their goodness. That is not to say that we should not have checks, balances, and transparent observation of their actions. Please try to understand what I am saying. All it is saying is that giving someone the ability to govern is a dangerous but necessary game that we ultimately must do.

I highly doubt that we are disagreeing. You are simply misunderstanding.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:59 PM #27
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When I say trust, I mean I expect them to do the right thing when no one is looking. If I expected any elected official to do that, I would not have laws and regulations for removing them from office.

Like I replied to the bar trending philosopher; verify, ensure.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:10 PM #28
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I have been explicitly clear in my terms from the beginning. I stand that my argument is still sound.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:12 PM #29
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Gag. You want me to go back and read? Like some kind of adult?
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:06 PM #30
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Gag. You want me to go back and read? Like some kind of adult?
Knowing the way this forum runs, I certainly don't expect it. But I would appreciate it. Or we can let it die. I feel as if I have made my point abundantly clear for anyone who wants to objectively read it.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:10 PM #31
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I'm on a cellular telephone, bear with me.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:14 PM #32
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We're not disagreeing, I don't like your use of the word trust. Maybe I think it has a deeper meaning, or something.

Without "trust" I imagine something similar to the French revolution.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:33 PM #33
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While it is certainly possible that President Obama would not use this for anything but proper searching of terrorists, one cannot guarantee that a future president would not seek to bend this law to better serve them in controlling the American population. We the people trust the government because we feel like we have no choice and realize "well someone has to pass laws and run the show while I work all day cutting down trees for people to build things with as my way of contributing to the system and take care of my kids" so we entrust the government with things that we are not necessarily buying as "honest & efficient work" by them.

I just think the practice has a great amount of noble intentions, and dangerous applications.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:31 AM #34
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We the people trust the government because we feel like we have no choice and realize "well someone has to pass laws and run the show while I work all day cutting down trees for people to build things with as my way of contributing to the system and take care of my kids" so we entrust the government with things that we are not necessarily buying as "honest & efficient work" by them.

I just think the practice has a great amount of noble intentions, and dangerous applications.
Exactly, silent acts like we trust these people, like if we didn't trust them, they would give up office or something?
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:19 AM #35
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Exactly, silent acts like we trust these people, like if we didn't trust them, they would give up office or something?
You have demonstrated that you clearly don't understand the argument being made. Please stop.
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:51 PM #36
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Speaking of trust. I'd rather put my trust in one guy, who was trained from birth to lead a country than a bunch of men elected through populism, sharing responsibility and come from backgrounds unrelated to their position.
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:56 PM #37
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Speaking of trust. I'd rather put my trust in one guy, who was trained from birth to lead a country than a bunch of men elected through populism, sharing responsibility and come from backgrounds unrelated to their position.
Can't say I would disagree.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:34 AM #38
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You guys would love Iran then.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:55 PM #39
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You guys would love Iran then.
I prefer Liechtenstein. Much nicer view and a sane government official.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:10 PM #40
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You guys would love Iran then.
How does that sound like Iran at all?
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:51 AM #41
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Kim Jong-un IS AWESOME!
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:51 AM #42
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How does that sound like Iran at all?
Iran is a Republic don't forget.
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