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Old 01-06-2013, 07:53 PM #1
Bigjoe11
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Spyer Pump velocity problems

Ever since I slot-modded my Spyder to be a pumo, I haven't been able to rwach velocities of over 120 fps. At first I thought is was because the bolt pin inside the slot caused drag, but even without the bolt pin in it won't go over 120. Before cutting the slot, I could achieve 450+ fps when manually recocking it (I would take it apart and pull back the striker each time without the bolt pin in). I have upped the pressure, used a heavy main spring, and checked everything, but it all seems fire to me. Any ideas on how to fix this?
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:51 PM #2
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The striker isn't binding on the bolt pin, is it?

Is your bolt traveling all the way forward prior to using firing the striker?

I recently completed the striker slot as well (didn't slot it far enough initially). I also did some LP mods to lower the operating pressure. I drilled out the front block (ASA input and output to the valve), drilled out the input and output of the valve, and I am using the Delrin ACS bolt.
Firing at ~260 +/- 15 (didn't tune it very much, just to get playing the other day) I'm sitting at an operating pressure way below 500psi (looks about 2-300 on a gauge that ranges from 0-1600).
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:29 PM #3
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At first I actually thought the bolt pin was binding, but if I cock it, then remove the bolt pin, the velocity is still low. That test also shows that the bolt is going all the way forward, because it is the bolt pin that would cause that problem. I have done all the otter low pressure mods, and I used to be able to use it on about 350 psi in pump mode easily. The issue is that the valve doesn't release enough air into the barrel right now. I am also using hpa and an ergo reg if that helps at all.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:22 AM #4
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I would double check the dimensions for the slot. If its too deep you may have cut some of the face that contacts the valve stem. The bolt also may be positioning itself in the wrong place, (forward or backward) causing a lack of air to move through the bolt.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:34 AM #5
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I know that the slot ends several mm away from the face, so it can't be that. The bolt position could easily be the problem though. It is all the way forward, and there is.nothing blocking it, but I'm not sure if the hole does line up there. How would I be able to check that accurately?
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:19 PM #6
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Could the reduced striker weight cause this?
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:18 PM #7
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It definitely could.

Weigh your striker, unless you only slotted it. If you've only slotted it and did the LP face, then it won't be an issue, but if you did any other mods you may have taken too much weight off.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:14 PM #8
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All I did was slot and polish it. No lp face since it doesn't recock anyway. It is a pretty good amount lighter though.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:30 PM #9
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Put a stock striker in and see what happens. It could be binding up against the inside of the lower tube. Also make sure your valve assembly is in check. It sounds to me like there is a bottleneck somewhere along the line.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:46 PM #10
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I'll try that, it might be a couple days though. There is definitely a bottleneck somewhere.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:27 PM #11
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Well, yesterdat I was shooting halfway across my yard with the low velocuty; but when I held the pump a couple millimeters forward, I launched a ball into the stratosphere. So I guess the bolt is going too far forward, anyone know how to fix that?
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:09 PM #12
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Which direction do you mean by "held the pump forward"? Toward the barrel tip or towards the velocity adjuster?
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:23 PM #13
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Sorry, I meant backwards. I held the pump a couple millimeters away from its forward position.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:40 AM #14
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Hmm. It seems as though your spyder body was slotted a little too far between the two tubes.

You could try drilling out the passageway on your bolt. That should help allow a better air flow to counteract the misalignment of the bolt and valve.

I can't think of anything else that you could do to fix it (other than getting a new striker and slotting that one a little bit less)
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:54 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblindchicken View Post
Hmm. It seems as though your spyder body was slotted a little too far between the two tubes.
Nonsense, we can fix this. Although last i check you shouldn't have touched the inbetween tube Slot the striker, slot the top tube (if there is no halbacking). You only slot that middle tube for micro spyders.
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Easy fix still. JBweld the stirker slot (from the front, and then trim till it works again.
The pin has to stop in the striker, so if it pulling to far forward, then just stop it earlier.

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Sorry, I meant backwards. I held the pump a couple millimeters away from its forward position.
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Well, yesterdat I was shooting halfway across my yard with the low velocuty; but when I held the pump a couple millimeters forward, I launched a ball into the stratosphere. So I guess the bolt is going too far forward, anyone know how to fix that?
PULL OR PUSH. TO or AGAINST YOU. Also don't use vague term, first you precisely describe not being able to break 120fps, then your shooing the sky. You want help post numbers and pictures, then use what ever clever device to describe your aliment.

If you have to PULL IT TOWARD you a couple millimeters, then look above for the fix. "JB weld the striker and re grind"

If you have to PUSH IT AGAINST, then you need a better spring to get it to engage.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:14 PM #16
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Nonsense, we can fix this. Although last i check you shouldn't have touched the inbetween tube Slot the striker, slot the top tube (if there is no halbacking). You only slot that middle tube for micro spyders.
I meant that the bolt pin slot in the body may have been milled slightly too much from the factory.

Also, the striker I am using is fully slotted (cut from the bolt pin hole through to the striker face) and it works perfectly for my spump. Although, everyone's setup is different.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:34 AM #17
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I don't have a chrono, but when firing I need to pull the pump handle towards me about 3 mm in order for the paintball to be launched in the best way possable. I did measure 120 fps when pushing the pump handle all the way forward at the feild, though. I like the idea of enlarging the hole under the bolt, it couldn't hurt even if it didn't help. And yes, the middle slot being shorter would solve the problem, maybe I could add material to the front of the bolt pin? This would simulate a shorter cut between the tubes. Also, a spump's bolt at forward isn't determined by the striker's slot, it comes to a stop when it hits the front of the groove between the body tubes.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:18 AM #18
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I like the idea of enlarging the hole under the bolt, it couldn't hurt even if it didn't help.
I meant to enlarge the hole in the bolt to allow the larger entrance for the air to pass through, not to drill out the valve passageway in the body (you could do this, but then you would have to retap the valve set screw and find a set screw to fit the enlarged hole).
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:42 AM #19
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Originally Posted by theblindchicken View Post
I meant to enlarge the hole in the bolt to allow the larger entrance for the air to pass through, not to drill out the valve passageway in the body (you could do this, but then you would have to retap the valve set screw and find a set screw to fit the enlarged hole).
That's what I was talking about, good idea.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:45 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblindchicken View Post
I meant that the bolt pin slot in the body may have been milled slightly too much from the factory.
A STBB(stacked tube blow back) the middle channel just needs to be there, any bigger and it still works. The striker would normally hold the tolerance. In the case of a spump, if that middle channel wasn't perfect you will see his problem a bolt that pushes a little past the breech. I only see 2 ways of correcting this. 1st that should have been obvious to ALL us is shim the pump arm, Its 2-3mm too long, so shorten it or put a stopper some how. The next I still stand by is fix the striker. Before you pull the trigger the striker is locked in place and it can keep the bolt lined up. A little JB weld and it will line up everytime. After you pull the trigger, everything should move fast enough. I would do both to be safe.

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. Also, a spump's bolt at forward isn't determined by the striker's slot, it comes to a stop when it hits the front of the groove between the body tubes.
NO and YES. After the you release the striker, the bolt could move again otherwise its stops where your slot stops until then. Obviously if your body was machine for a perfect stop, you wouldn't see this issue. So try 1 or both of the fixes i listed and get it working before you start boring out your bolt.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:41 PM #21
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I just put a zip tie around the bolt, it's in a spot so it catches on the body before the bolt goes past its best forward position. And I get what you're saying about the jbweld in the striker, but I'm afraid that if I do that, it may effect the consistency. By pushing forward harder or softer on the pump handle, it may push the striker forward a little bit when firing. Almost like a little boost to the striker while the bolt pin is still in contact with the striker and I'm pushing it forward. That adds another variable.
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