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Old 12-29-2012, 06:13 PM #22
blueshifty
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Who did the CAD work? On the second reg... has that actually been built and tested? Seems like the recharge rate would be suspect.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:53 AM #23
Cocker_Madness
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Evolve Pi regulator

http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/maxflo.html
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:54 PM #24
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Does anyone make a truly balanced HPR or LPR today?
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:45 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocker_Madness View Post
I was just going to post the Evolve Pi, but I see it's been done so a couple times already. Really too bad they never took off more.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:00 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyronejk View Post
Thank you very much for the helpful answer. I've always used sp guns, ions and nxts, which have unbalanced regs.


And for future reference, this a perfectly balanced reg:
That's interesting about the NXTs. I never experienced this but then again, I almost instantly replaced my NXT regs with Custom Products regulators when I owned them. Did the pressure change noticeably when switching tanks or are you just talking from a design perspective? I know the stock regs never seemed to perform that great for me.

Last edited by Mr. Stealthy : 01-01-2013 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:09 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy2 View Post
Does anyone make a truly balanced HPR or LPR today?
In the most traditional sense, that Evolve regulator was one but they don't make them anymore. A big issue they had with the Evolve Pi regulator is that they would tend to spike badly when the tank got low.

In a functional sense, most current markers compensate for differences in input pressure and will maintain a consistent output. They are fairly "balanced", just not in the traditional design sense. My G6R for example will pressure test identical pressures (at least accurate enough that the gauges don't change) with SLP, LP and HP.

Even in an unbalanced system, the output variance is at most 25 psi and in many cases significantly less. You have to also remember that paintball regulators need to be compact, light weight, reliable and user-serviceable.

Last edited by Mr. Stealthy : 01-01-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:14 PM #28
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I think it's already been established that the 360 reg is not a balanced regulator. A balanced regulator in terms accepted by most of the industry would require the output pressure to be the same regardless of the input pressure. By this definition, I have not found a truly balanced regulator to date. The evolve pi was very close, it was pneumatically balanced, but it had some funky mechanics that kept it from working perfectly (I still have one sitting in a drawer because of its unpredictable behavior).

To the OP, just so you know, the Bob Long regs output will be affected in the exact opposite way your Luxe reg behaved when input pressure changes. The Luxe style regulator (same style as your screw in tank reg) will have its output increase with its input. The Bob Long style reg will decrease its output with an increase in input. I can explain this if necessary, but brevity is not my forte so I'll leave it out for now.

Simple example: screw an SLP (~300psi) into a g6r, set pressure. Now screw in a high pressure tank (I know, I know, don't actually do it) and the output will decrease. As the OP mentioned with the Luxe, if you do the same thing, the inline reg output will increase. Enough to blow a solenoid alone? I'm not so sure, but I've never tested it.

I did run some pressure tests today with a few regulators so you can get an idea as to what a regulator will do with different input pressures. I first used my Crossfire tank with an output gauged at 830psi. Then I used my Ninja which was reading 480psi. I pulled inline regs at random from guns and tested them with both and recorded their output pressures (after cycling the regs and allowing them to settle a few times). I can't really put a table in here, so I will put reg model then output with the high tank, followed by the low tank.

Bob Long style regulators - high/low:

360 - 220/240
Stabilizer - 185/205
AKA 2-Liter - 180/185 (this is a "balanced" design)

Luxe style regulators - high/low:

CP (gen2) - 340/330
Sidewinder - 245/230
Sheridan RG-1 - 330/300

As you can see, the difference in output with a Bob Long 360 reg between my 2 tanks is 20psi. So there is a difference. It's also worth noting the 20psi spread is the same as the Palmer Stabilizer, a regulator with a very good reputation. Now, the differences will depend on the exact output of your tank regulator. I probably should note that your tank output changes with its input as well. The lower the pressure in your tank, the lower its output will be. Again, every brand of tank regulator handles this differently, some much better than others. Your results will vary based on your tanks, but if you are switching from something like an SLP to a 450-500psi output tank, you're not going to see much of a difference with any inline regulator, Bob's included.

I hope that clears some of this up and helps you understand how the regulators work on Bob's guns. Jason (Bob's designer/engineer) has been involved in designing and manufacturing regulators for quite a while, and the 360 reg is a testament to that. It is a great performer and a tough regulator to mess up. While it's not perfectly balanced, I have yet to find a regulator that is (and still works reliably).

To answer your other regulator related question, the LPR is not balanced either, but its changes based on input compliment the inline reg. For example, if your inline pressure goes up (theoretically increasing velocity), your LPR goes down and will decrease your velocity. This does not happen magically or with some sort of witchcraft, it's just what happens when you change the resistance behind the valve that the regulator piston pushes open. Again, this can be explained in greater detail, but hopefully this will suffice. Good luck, and I hope you end up grabbing a g6r or Victory. They're awesome guns and I have enjoyed them both.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:38 PM #29
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Wow forum where have you been? Intelligence in paintball is sometimes hard to find.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:10 PM #30
benzy2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stealthy View Post
In the most traditional sense, that Evolve regulator was one but they don't make them anymore. A big issue they had with the Evolve Pi regulator is that they would tend to spike badly when the tank got low.

In a functional sense, most current markers compensate for differences in input pressure and will maintain a consistent output. They are fairly "balanced", just not in the traditional design sense. My G6R for example will pressure test identical pressures (at least accurate enough that the gauges don't change) with SLP, LP and HP.

Even in an unbalanced system, the output variance is at most 25 psi and in many cases significantly less. You have to also remember that paintball regulators need to be compact, light weight, reliable and user-serviceable.
That was where I was heading with it. I didn't think anyone had continued to produce a balanced reg that output the exact same pressure regardless of input pressure. The SL3 comment caught me by surprise from the OP as I thought they, like the rest, were unbalanced. Some designs handle input pressure changes better than others, but the claim that the SL3 was balanced is incorrect as far as I know. In the end though a well designed unbalanced reg is still going to be consistent and won't change pressure greatly from one tank to the next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forumreader View Post
To answer your other regulator related question, the LPR is not balanced either, but its changes based on input compliment the inline reg. For example, if your inline pressure goes up (theoretically increasing velocity), your LPR goes down and will decrease your velocity. This does not happen magically or with some sort of witchcraft, it's just what happens when you change the resistance behind the valve that the regulator piston pushes open. Again, this can be explained in greater detail, but hopefully this will suffice. Good luck, and I hope you end up grabbing a g6r or Victory. They're awesome guns and I have enjoyed them both.
Thank you for testing it out. I was going to do the math as I don't have the lp tanks and I really didn't want to guess on seal diameters. Much nicer to have real numbers.

In the end, the bigger issue is what it results in down range. I would guess that if you adjust the HPR to the proper setting you could greatly minimize what that 20 PSI does in terms of velocity change. Set the HPR a shade above the balance point on a LP tank and with an HP tank it should be a shade under the balance point, leading to very minimal velocity changes from one tank to another.
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