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Old 12-30-2012, 04:46 PM #1
prologix
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Inconsistent velocity issues in a HE bolt SFT

Ok so we have this SFT my son uses, he decided to do an experiment comparing the speed of the paint ball as you change freak inserts.
So we go to the indoor chrono @ LVP and start with the largest insert a SS 0.691 and get wildly inconsistent velocity, with it for the most part getting slower and slower.
Next day I replace the battery, check the o-ring fit (fit of the bolt to the cans and the bolt to the bolt guide) was as loose as I have ever seen it. Even though the HE o-ring was installed the bolt slid right out, leaving the can in place. I also the bolt guide went in an out with no resistance yet I could hear no leaks. Came back to LVP today and here is what I was getting:
SS 0.691 insert 285, 215, 292, 227, 230, 185, 212, 195, 277, 176, 157, 157, 167, 196, 156, 177, 111, 111, 110, 110
Feeling that something is wrong still, I adjusted the reg (stock shocker reg) and swapped to a Aluminum 0.687 insert, 10-15 shots then started looking at the chrono – 334, 327, 333, 335, 316, 335, 331, 329, 329, 325, 335 At this point I am liking the consistency and go to turn down the reg, after 10 – 15 clearing shots I get this – 227, 265, 272, 271, 284, 281, 267, 254, 266, 251, 308, 204, 213, 213, 259, 132, 211, 148, 229. At this point I turn up the reg a quarter of a turn, few clearing shots 343, 335 so I turn it back down an eighth of a turn and some clear shots 300,303,319,281,293,305,300,283 turn down another eighth and watch it take a dive back in to the hundreds again (think 180 – 113) .
So I change tanks twice same issues, test the tanks on other sons Ion, no apparent issues.
Now my issues are twofold, one got to get the shocker working or get my phantom freak bored quickly to complete the child’s experiment (It is for a grade, maybe borrow a freak bored marker from someone for this). Two I got to get the shocker working, it was great at first but seems to be more trouble that it is worth now. It has gotten bad enough that for are upcoming big game he wants to use my Tippmann.
The board is stock, running it with the eyes off, with the only thing not stock is the CP on / off ASA.
What I am perceiving it over 300, it works, but try and get it down to field speeds / indoor field speeds I slows up to useless speeds.
Note Eigenbolt is sitting here waiting for install but I would like to get it working first.
Any suggestions?
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:02 PM #2
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Clean and regrease your reg.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:34 PM #3
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The weather can definitely have an effect on your paint and your marker.

I would try rebuilding the reg like already suggested. I would also try bumping the dwell up. That will help combat the cold and the inconsistency. Lastly, make sure your paint is properly sized to the paint for the best results.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:43 PM #4
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So used Zdspb.com instructions to clean up and re-grease the reg. About 3/4's of a hopper in to the first game it would not push the ball out of the barrel.

We were playing indoor 50- 60 degrees.
Any more ideas?
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:59 PM #5
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What preassures are you running and what reg?
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:05 PM #6
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how about your solenoid inserts? on zdspb.com, there is a guide on how to set them in the gun. These inserts are directly below where you insert the bolt internals, at the back of the gun. I'm not certain the inserts are your problem, but if your son is shooting a non private labeled SFT shocker, then you want the inserts to be threaded in far enough to where they are "flush with the body". If these inserts are threaded in too deep or too far out, it can be a cause of shoot down and wild velocity numbers like the ones you mentioned. Jim, do you second this? I think it could be this.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:21 PM #7
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Have you tried it with the eigen in there?

What paint does your field shoot? If it's not high quality and is something like DXS basic training or something along those lines some batches can be really inconsistent and it's not so much the guns problem.

Also, if your indoor field is running low FPS, an adjustable bolt guide will work wonders at getting it consistent somewhere around 250 fps. I play indoor as well and before I got an adjustable bolt guide I was having inconsistency issues. I'm pretty sure stock shocker's aren't designed to run at a low enough psi to be consistent at indoor speeds so thats why they released an adjustable bolt guide.

p.s the eigen will run butter smooth at indoor velocities without an adjustable guide meaning you don't have to buy an extra part if you don't want. I'd clean and make sure your inserts are properly aligned as mentioned, and start breaking in your eigen and you might find your issues diminishing
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:07 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnkr king View Post
Have you tried it with the eigen in there?

What paint does your field shoot? If it's not high quality and is something like DXS basic training or something along those lines some batches can be really inconsistent and it's not so much the guns problem.

Also, if your indoor field is running low FPS, an adjustable bolt guide will work wonders at getting it consistent somewhere around 250 fps. I play indoor as well and before I got an adjustable bolt guide I was having inconsistency issues. I'm pretty sure stock shocker's aren't designed to run at a low enough psi to be consistent at indoor speeds so thats why they released an adjustable bolt guide.

p.s the eigen will run butter smooth at indoor velocities without an adjustable guide meaning you don't have to buy an extra part if you don't want. I'd clean and make sure your inserts are properly aligned as mentioned, and start breaking in your eigen and you might find your issues diminishing
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:56 PM #9
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Jim, the reg is stock and I do not know the pressure.
Gut, as far as the model it is a 2005 SFT. I will check the inserts, can I see them from the back? Not excited about opening this much more then pulling the bolt and cans.
I have not messed with dwell yet, I fear changing settings on the board and messing it up, I am a one change at a time sort of guy.
Indoor limit is around 265 outdoor is 280.
Paint was Formula 13 (<0.681) and is now some winter ball (<0.677) I had a 0.689 insert in because I wanted the rollouts to actually roll out and not get a bunch of balls in the barrel.
Eigen bolt is at the ready, I may work that in tomorrow.
My mechanical skills seem to be inversely proportionate to the need to not screw it up. (I really do not want to screw up my sons shocker)
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Attending: Blazing Saddles @ LVP 5/3/2014
1) Yes I have gold ups, no I do not need them. We could do a deal I suppose. 2) Hey, when we talk price lets talk all inclusive (shipping and paypal fees).

Last edited by prologix : 01-01-2013 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:56 PM #10
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honestly with the guys in the shocker sub forum that are willing to help you shouldn't have a problem with getting it fixed...also just make a list of the things that you were told to check, then do it one at a time...


crappy example...\/...
1st thing...(doesn't work change it back)
2nd thing...(improvement but not 100% fixed)
3rd thing...(fixed)
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:27 PM #11
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If your shooting a .689 insert when the paint is around .681-.677 I would say a lot of those velocities in the 100's were due to the extreme overbore. Do you have a full insert kit, can you get the right bore match? I'd do that and try it over the chrono again. It sounds like a lot of your issues are coming from the shocker not being set up right and a simple fix might solve it. Here's what I'd do

1. Bore paint (tend towards underbore vs overbore)
2. Set dwell @ 12 ms
3. Bottom out reg
4. Turn reg up while pulling the trigger, go until it fully cycles
5. Chrono
6. Put the eigen in there! Wait this should have been #1 lol
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:05 AM #12
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the solenoid inserts are really not complicated in any sense... think of them as a really long allen bolt with a couple o-rings on them. thats all they are. just make sure they are threaded deep enough into the body so that they are "FLUSH WITH THE BODY". these inserts seal off air passages to the solenoid, and when in the incorrect position, could restrict the flow if their too deep, or not seal it and leak if their too far out.

Its an easy adjustment to check and make.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:50 AM #13
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A realy easy way to "gauge how deep your inserts need to be is remove the grip frame and noid/manifold and remove 1 of the inserts and line it up against the bottom of the body as if it was installed. You'll see a few tiny set screws on each insert tube these are where the air passages are. Now just line it upso the orings on the insertare not obstructing them. On an SFT body flush with the body means the short point of the angle that insert tubes are on at the back of the gun with a PL body thats flat at the back you cant realy go with flush with the body.

Back to the question at hand I agree with bnkr king. Overlubing could definitely be an issue aswell. But for sure try bumping up the dwell its not hard.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:20 PM #14
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1) Dwell is up 16 chirps
2) Eigen bolt is installed - Ran out a full 88/4500 dry firing to break in, pulled the bolt cleaned re-lubed ran 2k out of a 68/4500
Taking it to play myself tomorrow night, see how it goes. If the issue resurfaces I will pull the grip frame and look at the solenoid inserts. As far as barrel inserts I will size down to 0.681 or even 0.677 I don't have a full set but I have a few, not sure about underboring when it is cold.
Also the current winter ball is Empire Polar Ice I can blow it through a 0.677 insert.

Edit: I took it out tonight , worked well.
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Scenario game player since Wayne Dollack's Operation Barbarossa @ Skirmish in 2001.
Financier, chief technical adviser and president of transportation of a 14 y/o with a 2005 Shocker and 16 y/o with an Ion XE
Attending: Blazing Saddles @ LVP 5/3/2014
1) Yes I have gold ups, no I do not need them. We could do a deal I suppose. 2) Hey, when we talk price lets talk all inclusive (shipping and paypal fees).

Last edited by prologix : 01-03-2013 at 09:09 PM.
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